[Closed] Group riders... a new generation of ramblers. With wheels.

I know you're trolling but may as well reply anyway 😆 Riding with others usually pushes you to do stuff slightly out of your comfort zone. Although sometimes it works the opposite for me because I don't want to make a tit out of myself in front of people.

A chip on both shoulders now?

And you don't know the people involved - I know some of them and know they will find

The thought of a bunch of yattering weekend warriors clattering around those tranquil hills dressed in their techno-clothing astride a variety of dazzle painted frames adorned with tastefully anodized bolts made me shudder.

'tis a long way from the truth.

Lame troll I am afraid

Why do you have to ride together? It's visually obscene.

Point of argument fail.

No. Trolling is when you say something you don't believe simply to elicit a response and giggle at the righteous indignation of those you've provoked.

I, on the other hand, actually believe (most of) what I write.

bang on the money mate!

t'tread is telling truth not a Fail IMO.

don't see many FreeRamber AllMonotenous riders on the Fjords I frequent.

Florid prose, limp argument.

agree over Rambler stylee post by the OP...but true all the same.

Obviously it's currently cool to say everything you don't like is down to the "nanny state" but it's hard to see how you can attribute having friends to big government.

Disc brakes earlier, now this. So, you're a techno-phobe with no friends...Do you smell as well?

We had a conversation on the moors the other night that was along these lines: mountain biking is perhaps the current middle-aged generation's version of rambling. And large groups of any people outside a city/town are unsettling. nonetheless freedom of association means we can enjoy the company of others. It means we can learn from each other and it means we can challenge each other. We're sociable beings on the whole and it seems reasonable to allow that association. To refuse it on grounds of aesthetics, trolling or curmudgeonliness seems futile.

i missed the last statement about Nanny (Full Suspension of disbelief) statement by the O.P.
but wtf
...
kinda true
...
:?:or knew?

Disc brakes earlier, now this.

I know. It's just so [i]contrary[/i], isn' it? Ergo, it must be wrong.

Techno-phobe? Au contraire, mon ami! I work with high-tech equipment every day. It saves lives.

What I can't abide is overly-complex solutions to problems, like bike retardation. If I could get away with it, I'd just drag my feet along the ground and save on brakes altogether. Just as I enjoy simple things like looking around me and using a map and compass rather than hashing about with a GPS system. And riding alone or in small groups.

But, OMG, you're right! I DO smell!!!

Simple things...

simple things,

sometime eh?

simpleposts n',

Trailtruths.

actually what if mtb'ing is the current demographic equivalent of Rambling?

When Ramblers' started the (social)movement, like the Kinder Mass Tresspass ...Ramblers (as they were in the 1930s?), was far radder than any of today's FreeRide Collectivised nonsense.

So repspect to Rad ramblers both new skool & old style actusally.

I have nothing against rambling or ramblers. They're OK people in the main.

My point was simply that the adventure tag on which mtbing is so often sold / promoted / enjoyed is rather diluted when people choose to engage in group rambles-on-wheels.

I find it hard to accept the argument that you need the 'ultimate stopping power' provided by disc brakes when the main danger faced by a significant proportion of mountain bikers is the guy in front suddenly stopping to answer his mobile phone.

I work with high-tech equipment every day. It saves lives.

What I can't abide is overly-complex solutions to problems, like bike retardation. If I could get away with it, I'd just drag my feet along the ground and save on brakes altogether. Just as I enjoy simple things like looking around me and using a map and compass rather than hashing about with a GPS system.

This is a completely contrary statement though, isn't it.
The vast majority of medical advances are complicated, complex solutions that help advance the whole 'pathway' from diagnosis to treatment.
Sure, in certain situations these tasks can be completed by simple measures such as a thorough clinical exam, or simple tests, but there's no denying that 'complex solutions' have revolutionised medical therapies.

I'm sure in 'Nam you have access to certain medical technologies that you take for granted in your day to day work, just as cyclists now take for granted discs and suspension etc. Each are valid technologies.

I must say Ro - some of your rants really do come across quite bizzare and concerning!

DrP

....the main danger faced by a significant proportion of mountain bikers is the guy in front suddenly stopping to answer his mobile phone....

Where do you get these ideas from?!

DrP

i agree totally.

the funny part is that the rest of the threads made rethink
the red socked ramblers
as more rad merry than
the disc braked biker boy's here now

back on track - only just got discs going late lats season...my goodness theyt were invited for a reason eh?...

cheers then,

j

Nah , DrP...

wtf d ye get the mashed M.A.S.H.E.D ideas from?

I belive were talking mountain biking not Medicness

...wtf d ye get the mashed M.A.S.H.E.D ideas from?...

Ro's a doctor. I was pointing out the contradictory statement he was making by comparing his 'hate of MTB techonolgy' with his use of medicinal technology.

I belive were talking mountain biking not Medicness

TBH I'm not sure it's clear what you are talking about 😉 Busy night on the beers I hope!

DrP

That's quite an interesting argument, DrP, and I might buy it were so much effort not being expended on simplifying the diagnosis / treatment protocols. Expert systems will replace our ramblings one day, and the patient will be all the better for it.

What do you think SIGN guidelines are all about? Or computerised patient administration systems in your GP practice where drug interaction / contra indications are flashed up on your screen? No need to search in your MIMS or your memory. Electronic links to labs result, patient referrals to secondary care providers, blah, blah. Complex technology being used to SIMPLIFY a process.

As some guy once said, 'simply and add lightness'. He was an engineer, but the principle is valid across all professions. If we can - and we can - use technology to present our patients with the best evidence-based care in 95% of the cases we encounter, I'll happily lose 5% of my patients because they required a complex solution which was probably beyond my ability to handle anyway. But I do accept that YMMV.

But disc brakes are [i]unnecessarily[/i] complex. So they're Just Wrong.

Nor am I now tbh!

whatever it seems to have got into the spirit of the thread
M.A.S.H.(ed) reference = comedy crew Korean Docs.

hope that makes sense...
aye was quite a busy one.

noteeth!
yr NHStyles
r needed on this thread

hmmmm, maybe he said 'simplyfy and add...' it would have made more sense 🙂

anyway, it's almost 10 am here and i have work to do. nighty-night, my little nouveau-rambler chums.

can you send me some of what you're on, tangent? it seems fun.

🙂

maybe ... yeah. riding Oslo Fjord right out.
Top thread!

ten AM ?...
where tf is that then?

would say somewhere indian ocean based, malaysia, Thai

Edit:-) Checked profile....he's in the 'nam dude

you should start playing golf!...
golf clubs love folk like you who come on board and nag nag nag...
honestly,jack in biking,take up golf then everyone will be happy 😆

Please mods, either dish out a banning or provide me with an ignore button!

but it's not my job to make you happy.

i shall style myself as the black swan of this forum. you need to read taleb.

🙂

Why would anyone get so upset about Pitlochry when they're far-far away in Cambodia, it's not like they're getting in your way or anything:)

ro - Member
The thought of a bunch of yattering weekend warriors clattering around those tranquil hills dressed in their techno-clothing astride a variety of dazzle painted frames adorned with tastefully anodized bolts made me shudder.

I'm one of the riders involved, and you couldn't be more wrong mate.

My frame isn't painted at all because it's made of Titanium.

just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

I mostly ride on my own, sometimes with my best mate and occasionally with a largeish and varied group. I go to trail centres, I go with my map to unknown territories ( to me anyway )and I go for frequent rides in the local woods on my doorstep. Variety is the spice of life. I'll be near the front today with a map but no mobile, looking under every bridge for you. If I find you I'll still offer you a Haribo and some bramble whiskey.

Ro you raise a good point and I think large groups of riders does have the potential to p1ss off walkers and other track users. Personally I like riding with mates, but 4-5 of us is a good number, with 2-3 people best. The more people the longer the ride takes and the higher the chance of mechanicals with you all standing around fixing bikes.

Do we all need to go riding in groups of 20?

OK, I'm not the most experienced rider on STW, but I've been at it 20 years on and off and there's a VERY GOOD reason why I go on group rides - Its fun! I'm very capable of using a map and finding my own way round a new area, but it's a lot more effective to find a local to guide you round and show you the bits that don't appear on any map. I'm very happy riding on my own. Indeed I did just that on Friday evening, but to me MTBing has a wonderful social element, and it's impossible to have a bad day in a big group. Unless your head is stuck firmly in the sand that is. Just because your opinion is that groups if more than 4 should be banned doesn't mean to say it's right, and it ain't NEVER gonna happen anyway. So get used to it. Your post is riddled with "I'm better than you becase I blah blah blah" -ism too, in case you didn't notice?
So, I'm up early to sort my kit for a STW group ride on the Surrey Hills today. I'm gonna gave a great time in the sun, make some new friends and ride some great trails. Sorry if that annoys the Fun Police, but it's tough titty.
😀

Anything, but let loose on the natural environment.

Opps... that natural environment made up of farm land, deforested heather moorland, spruce plantations, covered in sheep, criss-crossed by modern and ancient transport routes, dotted with wind farms and hydro plants...

A large aspect of the sport is the social one IMO. Sure, I'm not down the pub after every ride but I get to have the craic with a few friends and listen to some diffferent stories etc

So someone organizes a one-off group ride, and you want to ban them? Another self important person trying to control people. What happened to live and let live?
It takes a certain breed of person to see the negative in every thing.
And if you believe disc brakes are overly complex, you can have used them enough. Other than the odd change of pads, i've never had an issue with disc brakes. My v-brake equipped bikes I have to adjust every few rides. And if you slightly taco a wheel, you're screwed.
What's that, pads that self adjust for wear, and brakes that work with a bent wheel, or in the wet. Yeah, too complicated for me...... 😯
To honestly believe you'd rather drag your feet on the floor you can't be moving at any kind of pace.
Poor troll.

+1 for the ignore button.

If your an adventurous person who is scared of technology why are you on a computer, surely a typewriter has less to go wrong.

*blink*

guys, it's a sunday. family day out. parts of your proposed route will be LITTERED with jenny and james and their mummy and daddy. do you honestly think the best way to travel that route is as a herd of bikers? get real.

and i always considered ben vrackie and the moulin area to be rather cute. i'm sorry you see it as being representative of the detritus of modern rural life.

imho those of your ilk should stick to glentress or somewhere similar for your bonding / equipment admiring / gonzo downhill sessions.

+2 for the ignore button.

Mind you this could be a very quiet place.

Is it just me or is this forum filling up with folk who come out with the "if you're not doing MTBing how I do then you're doing it wrong" attitude.

This used to be a much more forgiving, live and let live place. I for one am getting very bored with it and am coming on here less and less because of the nay sayers.

I must admit RO has a point I too hate large group rides four is enough and you may get to see and hear the wildlife if there are not loads of you which is one of the points of enjoying the great outdoors

So disc brakes yes
Mass rides no

People that want to ride in a group are representative of the detritus of modern rural life?!?!?
Why not go along, and you'll maybe find some friends of your own to ride with, although the people on these rides wouldn't be sad and miserable enough to get your seal of approval as humans.
Glad I don't live in your world.

Ken, they're used to be a lot less of this stuff, because everyone used to do mtbing correctly 🙂

25 years ago the trails were quiet because few of us were mtbers .I prefered it then as a minor niche hobby

I prefered it then as a minor niche hobby

I sort of agree with this as "back then" everyone said hello to each other and you only got grief from walkers and horse riders not like today when you get some prick telling you how to not to ride your bike surely listening to him telling you what to do is more "nanny state" than just doing it,

I'll ride any bike with anyone and with as many people as i like. thats freedom, adventure and what i want to do.

is pitlochry in vietnam or cambodia? cos i'm sure you said you are!

i shall style myself as the black swan of this forum.

You can style yourself how you like but the general effect is more...
[img] [/img]

I think we need to look at SOAC here (Scottish Outdoor Access Code) which isn't just a code but law. Cyclist have a legal right to cycle paths and we will continue to do so while we still have this right. There's no limit on numbers per group but cyclists do have a legal responsibility to avoid erosion and to give way to walkers and horse riders. You have to be willing to give way but more often than not walkers just stand aside to let you pass which is nice. If you're polite all is good usually. Stick to this and there's no problem so ro should keep his conservative opinions to himself I think.

You carry on riding on your own then RO, and leave the rest of us alone, just because its not your thing, you cannot have a go at people who clearly enjoy riding in groups. Pillock!

But disc brakes are unnecessarily complex.

Hum, now I would like you to tell me what makes you think that? The way I see it, disk brakes are two bits of metal linked by a hose full of fluid.
You can probably count the number of moving part on a disk brake system with your hands.

As for the riders you describe, well a couple of things:
Albeit, you can ride in jeans, normal clothing and so on. However made for purpose clothes are obviously better for the job, without looking too daft outside the bike (I am not talking about pro rider stuff here).
They come indeed as a variety of colours, going from black, to red passing through pink blue orange green etc etc. Now at this point is down to personal taste to choose what colour to wear, but and that's a significant but, why should I bite to the consumerist society and buy one neutral coloured top for mtbing and one bright for commuting (as a medical professional you know indeed that on the road being visible saves life)? Let's admit for the sake of your argument that we're talking about people that only mtb, no commuting involve.
I don't know that if in cambodgia you get many outdoor shops and all, but the best leading brands in hill walking/mountaineering/climbing don't almost do black any more. Funny that. Sh1te does happen, I happily bet my bike that you have seen someone coming to your hospital because of an outdoor accident. Now imagine, it's you're typical overcast and rainy day in the kingdom, rider/walker in the peak fall of the cliff (as I said sh1te happen). He's not alone so friend can use stupid stuff such as mobile phone to ring the rescue team. Helicopter is sent. On site in about minutes. Blokes with the googles spot the red/orange/pink jacket straight away in the green and brown and grey ditch. Less than one hour after the fall, bloke is in the surgery room having his internal bleeding fixed.

Now imagine he's like you, riding alone, no mobile phone and wearing camo stuff. Do you think the outcome of the sh1te happening would have been more happy in that case?

Nanny state maybe, sensible idea surely...

I know my spelling/grammar is crap and this post is probably non-understandable.

is pitlochry in vietnam or cambodia? cos i'm sure you said you are!

Hes prob just full of shit,

Ro whats your connection with Mountain View CA?

ro did you bulk buy tacks last year?

Has your progress been hindered by cycling........you need to get laid before you explode 😉

I don't like liver, can it be banned? If not, is it ok if I just carry on not eating it or is that not an option??

I agree with the sentiment of the OP.

Large groups ruin rides, and the countryside for other folk.

Why bother?

"the countryside should be for the elite few! out with the common scum!"

sheesh 🙄

i lived in sf for a while in 2005 and used to ride around the classic routes in marin. other than that i have no known links to mountain view, ca. am i missing some subtle point here?

I want a dazzle paint frame please they sound awesome!

RO clearly can't afford disc brakes and has no friends to ride with

i'm back in the uk on 1st june for a few weeks. so if anyone wants to punch me and / or lend me a decent bike (i'm 1.72m, 53 kgs, so a small and light bike would be cool) to accompany them on a ride while they demonstrate the wonders of disc brakes, i'm up for it.

i'm not so smart i can't admit i [i]might[/i] have something to learn...

i'll be based in perth. that's perth, perthshire, scotland, for those morons who can't get their heads around someone posting from viet nam.

that's not too far from the truth, rocketdog. i don't have much money.

my last salary in the uk? about $120,000. my annual salary here? $32,000. so buying a new frame + discs would hurt for sure. but as to friends...

i was at the SEA games in vientiane, laos in november. the lao national mtb team train on totally trashed bikes, but they're all fine guys and girls. singletrack should arrange some sort of equipment donation to these guys. better over here being used properly by talented kids than poncing around with lardy arses in uk parks and bridleways.

rOcKeTdOg - Member

I want a dazzle paint frame please they sound awesome!

I've always fancied a proper 'dazzle pattern' frame - I love the WWI warships in the dazzle design [*] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage [/*]

well i'm in perth ro so if you want to come out with me (it'll be a group ride what with there being more than me and all) i have a spare you can use (discs or vees the choice is yours). and seeing as you're keen for donated kit and as it's a cause that's dear to me, if you can sort out some transport i'll gladly donate two old (but perfectly formed bikes) to the laotians

Hi ro, I don't believe we have ever met and I'm sure that away from this internet forum you're a sound bloke. Now I'm not usually given to getting into disputes on here but I've read a few of your posts recently and hope you don't mind me making a couple of observations.

The tone of many of your posts have left me wondering about the motivation behind them and I can't get away from the following two options (maybe I just don't have much of an imagination):

A) You lead very sad and lonely existence since leaving school where you were quite unpopular due to the smartarse attitude you adopted over thoseless educationally gifted than yourself. However, many of your peers have gone on to lead very full and satisfying lives and you, after dropping out of university due to "stress", live in a flat above a hairdressers in basingstoke (or similar non descript town) where you work 20 hrs per week collecting trolleys on the car park of the local waitrose. In fact the only time you ever venture out is on a Tuesday night when you meet with your local chapter of whatever internet role playing game you play, where you are no doubt some mystical wizard with extraordinairy powers. To escape the meaningless hum drum existence that is your life you have created an online alter-ego, a highly qualified medical person that turned his back on financial success to take up a worthy cause in Vietnam where your much needed expertise and philanthropic work has brought you into contact with former members of the Royal family who regale you with witty anecdotes.....

OR

B) You really are that person doing no doubt much valued work out in Vietnam. If that is you, then I am sure that you have had the opportunity to ride in locations that many of us on here would love to hear about and see photographs of - in which case your many hours spent on here telling us all just how much better/knowledgeable/educated you are than the rest of us shows you to be a bigger c0ck than the aforementioned option A)

At first I thought ro was trolling too, but he insists otherwise, so we have to take his remarks at face value

Can't you do things for yourself? Find your own routes? Use a map? Why bumble around in a group, no doubt pissing off every walker/climber/hill runner you come across? Where is the adventure in following someone elses wheel?

Many of us can but choose not to. I've done around 1600 group rides and about 10 solo. I would estimate about half (possibly more) of my enjoyment is due to sharing the experience with others. I won't say like minded, as that usually isn't the case, but whatever our differences, they are unimportant at the time. Moreover, I cannot think of a reason to deny novices and the map blind the opportunity to enjoy riding in the wilds, and I think you can have an adventure in a big group - even if serious risks are minor or absent, it can still be great fun to explore together.

My point was simply that the adventure tag on which mtbing is so often sold / promoted / enjoyed is rather diluted when people choose to engage in group rambles-on-wheels.

I'm not convinced that's what biking is supposed to be about - where ever you do it, mountain biking is risky - one of our club broke his arm badly bimbling along between 2 rocks at 3 mph last week, and I'm sure for many novices, most rides feel adventurous, in trusting someone else to lead you right, in seeing new places and learning to do things you never thought you could, in terms of both danger and effort.

What I can't abide is overly-complex solutions to problems, like bike retardation. If I could get away with it, I'd just drag my feet along the ground and save on brakes

now we're jumping to a different topic, though ro seems to relate them. "Overcomplex" ? What I like about discs is their simplicity and fit-and-forgetness. I'm not interested in the whole machine in the least - it just a means to an end, and anything that simplifies that is good. I think discs are both conceptually and physically simple - less moving parts, less to go wrong, less fuss. I'd hate to have to go back to rim brakes or even mechanical disks!

Just as I enjoy simple things like looking around me and using a map and compass rather than hashing about with a GPS system. And riding alone or in small groups.

Although I'm fascinated with route finding, my map reading skills leave a lot to be desired, and before now I've led people in a complete circle while thinking I was following a route on the map 🙂 For that matter, I love getting lost - though as time goes on it gets harder and harder to achieve as I learn the ground. I wouldn't like to rely on a GPS solely, as they do go wrong, and really you need more context, particularly if you have to change the route due to circumstances.

But disc brakes are unnecessarily complex. So they're Just Wrong.

I'm at a loss to understand this - what's complex ? Lever, pipe, caliper, bracket, pads. I suppose the hidden details of the master cylinder are slightly more complicated than a nipple on a wire fitting into a housing, but I've never had to look at the components, so I don't care. One might well argue the caliper end is simpler as there are no pivots, linkages or adjusters.

is ro a bit of a dick.......

i'll let you reach your own conclusion.

is ro a bit of a dick.......

I don't know if that's true, but I can't agree with many of his pronouncements

breganate:

yunno, i don't know why but sometimes i wish option a) were true. it would be quite a giggle.

i've already discussed part of option b) with the esteemed mr chips, to the extent that if i can string some meaningless words together AND provide the aforementioned gentleman with some outstanding pics, you may well get to see more of mtbing in southeast asia. but you'll have to pay for it though, 'cos it will be in the mag not this forum 🙂

and you can rest assured there will be NO pics of anything fitted with discs. guaranteed.

simonfbarnes:

i don't like you anymore so i'm not talking to you. so there.

i don't like you anymore so i'm not talking to you

you mean you used to like me? I call that a result 🙂 However, I have no animosity towards you...

swiss01:

commendably generous of you, on all counts. i'm normally on a 20 kg baggage allowance on beastly air france, and as i only ever travel using carry on i'd happily pay for an extra 10kgs over my allowance if i could get some good kit to take to these guys. so i'll take the best mtb stuff i could disassemble and cram into a 30 kg big bike box.

i know it sounds ungrateful, but if anyone else wants to donate stuff i'd prefer to take the best xc-type bits possible. so if we could leave it open for a while and see if anyone else has something racy, that would be super.

i'm not being an arse, but hydraulic stuff is out. they have it on their race bikes but they're treated like gold and hardly used. training kit should be light but robust, lao people are tiny and light, so bear that in mind if you'd like to donate something. big frames are a no-no.

i'm afraid all the thanks you'd be likely to get is a pic of the lucky lao with your kit. few speak english, even fewer write it. but i'd make sure you see where your stuff went.

if people want to do this off-forum, email me at rohunter13@gmail.com where i'll happily provide a pic of myself in any location you care to name in sai gon holding a copy of that days Thanh Nien, just to prove i am where i say i am 🙂 if you hate me please don't spam me, i'm trying to do something positive here.

sfb:

of course i used to like you. you're one of the smarter people here. but i didn't care for your attitude in our last conversation. Not One Bit. so you may lead your life without further input from me. i'm sure you'll manage just fine 🙂

I must admit RO has a point I too hate large group rides four is enough and you may get to see and hear the wildlife if there are not loads of you which is one of the points of enjoying the great outdoors

I don't hate solo riders or small groups - everyone gets to choose for themselves. All I can say is many people do enjoy the buzz of riding with a big group, so we're not going to stop doing it to please you. Get over it 🙂

but i didn't care for your attitude in our last conversation.

I've forgotten what it was 🙁

woo. You're fun!

I go riding to get away from people, so massive group rides are my idea of hell. (Yes I am an antisocial ****er) 😀

(Yes I am an antisocial ****er)

me too! Which is why I enjoy combining my socialisation with riding - as soon as the conversation palls (often after 2 seconds), you just swerve to avoid an obstacle or take a different line and it's over without giving offense :o)

[lightbulb!]

Ro is Fred

£5 please.