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Have entered the 1st 3 rounds and if I get addicted will do the last 2.
Format sounds a lot of fun with live timing on the last stage. Everyone at the end will have a vested interest in the riders following them (due to fastest seeding running last) and should make for a great atmosphere as Ae was very good even without this.
Will also be good as you will get to see the faster riders on stage before going on to the next stage etc. Might be trickier with slower riders wearing a slow line to begin with...
Given the amounts spent on bikes and parts to brag in the car park of trail centres I don't think £60 for a full weekend including camping is a deal breaker imo.
Big thumbs up and hope to see some of you there.
Martin
So is it stage racing then? Do you need a bike to ride up hill as well as down?
Personally I can't see the VFM, although that may be down to a lack of info. The holiday prize above for example sounds amazing but it's the first I've heard of it.
I can go to the likes of Ae Forest and ride as fast as I can for free, so when I think of what else I could do with £60 it just seems like timing (albeit very good) and some atmosphere isn't worth it.
With all those sponsors on board I would have expected a goodie bag or something, wouldn't have to be expensive. Stickers and a t-shirt or something. Maybe that's just me.
Bit vague on what an enduro is tbh. It's staged so you have a rest between the stages then? And is there plenty of climbing or is it all DH?
Seen as I know nothing about them, I've just entered the Innerliethen winter one 🙂 Best way to find out I guess.
Lunge - it's stage racing yes. Ride order is based on a seeding run the day before. Riders set off on race day at 15 second intervals and have a set route to cover with 5 timed Special Stages round the course. The rest of the route isn't timed but you have to be at the start of the next Special Stage by your allotted start time or you will incur penalties.
IMHO it make for an exciting, involving days racing, with a really good atmosphere as you get to chat with the riders around you on the connecting stages. As for paying to ride round a trail centre, whilst most of these races are [i]based[/i] at trail centres, from what I understand, the majority of special stages at least, will be off the normal routes.
fbk, excellent, thanks very much.
[i]I can go to the likes of Ae Forest and ride as fast as I can for free, so when I think of what else I could do with £60 it just seems like timing (albeit very good) and some atmosphere isn't worth it.[/i]
Well just goto Ae and ride then. You don't HAVE to do this.
Have you seen how much most people on here spend on their bikes and accessories?
I see your point but i don't/can't afford to spend another £300 a year to race it, and then on top of that pay for accomadation and fuel costs.
My post may have read like i was somehow putting the team and their efforts down, i'm not. Its just the entry fee would put me off from entering more than say one or two events at a time.
I can't decide which one to do between the Ae one and the Innerleithan event
innerleithen
It does explain the format on their site but seeing as some people seem to be struggling... 🙂
(this is based on my experience of the Avalanche Enduro which looks to be very similar)
You do a qualifier on the saturday which decides your start position on race day. This is a timed run - probably one of the sections of singletrack descent. Next morning you go and get a list of times - this is when your timed runs on the Sunday start. You have to get up the climb to the start in time otherwise the clock starts ticking anyway.
The one I did most of the times were reasonably relaxed and you got to wait around for a bit before your timed run, but one of them wasn't, and there was people getting to the top of the climb then having to set off on their timed descent straight away.
The most suitable bike is probably your average 5" travel all mountain type thing. The odd person was on a DH bike or XC hardtail. If you think about your average UK trail centre singletrack section - they might mostly go down but with short stretches of flat or uphill so a DH bike isn't really ideal.
I can go to the likes of Ae Forest and ride as fast as I can for free, so when I think of what else I could do with £60 it just seems like timing (albeit very good) and some atmosphere isn't worth it.With all those sponsors on board I would have expected a goodie bag or something, wouldn't have to be expensive. Stickers and a t-shirt or something. Maybe that's just me.
I find it kind of funny that you would miss out on a really fun, exciting experience because they aren't giving you a few stickers. 😆
Well just goto Ae and ride then. You don't HAVE to do this.
I know. Not sure what your point is.
I find it kind of funny that you would miss out on a really fun, exciting experience because they aren't giving you a few stickers. 😆
But I LOVE stickers innit! Seriously though I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, just that wee freebies like that cost pennies but (imho) add value to events like this and might make the entry cost more palatable to many 'ordinary joe' riders like myself.
Just to make myself clear I'm not knocking the series per se. I love the enduro format (have done a couple) and I sincerely hope it's a success.
I have personally made my focus of riding bikes around this 'Enduro' format. Yes its just the same as going riding, yes its at the same place you can ride your bike for free and yes its X amount of money.
So why would I have spent so much time and money on doing such things when I don't NEED to?
Do one and you'll find out.
p.s. you'll need some lungs
But I LOVE stickers innit! Seriously though I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, just that wee freebies like that cost pennies but (imho) add value to events like this and might make the entry cost more palatable to many 'ordinary joe' riders like myself.
I'm with you there - I moaned about the lack of goodies at the Avalanche event too. 🙂
We did Ae last year and I thought it was good value for money. We had a full weekend's riding and a lot of fun. Everybody was very friendly and enjoyed the format. It was fun pushing to get that extra bit of speed out of the bike, but trying not to gas yourself before the end of the stage. Of course you can ride the Ae red any time you like but you aren't going to have the same experience as racing on the timed stages against a couple of hundred other riders.
There is a lot of interest in these kind of races in the UK. Some of them have been non-events due to timing failures. They are demanding to organise and run. Even if you can't afford the series or you think it is expensive, what is the harm in supporting one or two events ands trying to help these guys create some momentum and a business model they can have some confidence in?
Seems like anyone who's in doubt could come along and do the Innerleithen event on the 30th to get a taster, since the verdict seems to be that these events are similiar, but bigger and More Awesome.
grumm - Member
"It does explain the format on their site but seeing as some people seem to be struggling..."
Very good smartarse but that was all added since yesterday 🙂
RHSno2 - Member
"I have personally made my focus of riding bikes around this 'Enduro' format. Yes its just the same as going riding, yes its at the same place you can ride your bike for free."
To me the fact that it's riding much like I usually do only in a race is the big appeal, not a drawback! Course, it's also completely true of a lot of other events, 10UTB etc so I don't know why this event's getting particular criticism for it. I can go and do the world cup route at fort william any day so why am I doing the endurance dh? Because it looks ace 😉
As briefly mentioned above the French can organise races so much cheaper because most of the big expenditure is paid for by the government, such as insurance, policing, marshals, first aid, etc. They get the money from the Sporting and Tourism Depts, as it's seen as a benefit to the local town / village to have these events.
We were talking to the Masters MTB World Champs organisers in Pra Loup a couple of years ago to find out how they did it so cheaply, as there were ideas to perhaps try and get it to the UK.
We'd only be paying £25 per round if those costs were knocked off!
NorthWind. I think you misunderstood me. I am for it and I do it.
I was agreeing with you RHS 😉
Well...thats not in the spirit of STW...;)
We have organised a couple of these events in Italy and our entry fee was €40 Euro.
however the event was HEAVILY subsidised and with the amount of work done we basically just covered costs but all the labour that people put in was done for free....so basically we made a loss..
Nasher, I like the sound of your sponsorship. There's no way I'll come close to scaring the podium - it's nice to think I'm in with a chance of winning something regardless 🙂
it does sound expensive, but then last years Mountain mayhem was £65 for a solo racer, and all you do there is race around a field and pass over a timed mat, so comparable really - if not better value.
cheers Fbk
We were going to give a prize to those who won the series but then they are probably going to be sponsored pro elite type riders... so better to do a spot prize in each event for the average Jo.
Bit disapointed that the afan race is on the 4X track. Thats just a 4X race on your own. I was hoping for whites or the wall with timed sections on the go bits. The 4X track isn't very long at all.
Shame. I feel a bit silly for getting all excited about it now.
Bit disapointed that the afan race is on the 4X track. Thats just a 4X race on your own. I was hoping for whites or the wall with timed sections on the go bits. The 4X track isn't very long at all.
Shame. I feel a bit silly for getting all excited about it now.
The race finishes in the 4x area. There are timed sections on the fun bits of whites, the wall, etc..
That's good to know nasher, cheers! I'll be entering for sure.
The 2011 enduro will be based in the grounds of Brywn Betws 4X track
Maybe a suggestion to reword the website?
Bit disapointed that the afan race is on the 4X track. Thats just a 4X race on your own. I was hoping for whites or the wall with timed sections on the go bits. The 4X track isn't very long at all.
Shame. I feel a bit silly for getting all excited about it now.
That's good to know nasher, cheers! I'll be entering for sure.The 2011 enduro will be based in the grounds of Brywn Betws 4X track
Maybe a suggestion to reword the website?
Do we really need to make life that simple these days?? An Enduro event on a 4x track... 🙄
On the event thread it does seem a little steep 😕 was looking forward to it but after the previous Mash up crap I think i'll see how the 1st goes!
Good luck to the guys running it though 🙂
Do we really need to make life that simple these days?? An Enduro event on a 4x track...
I take it that you're aware that the 4x track is seperate to the rest of the trails at afan?
Those of us who haven't done these kind of events before do not know what to expect and go by the explanation on the website which was this;
The 2011 enduro will be based in the grounds of Brywn Betws 4X track
Jump off the high horse mate, with people skills and patience like that I'd be surprised if your skills guiding company gets much business.
sorry for being dull but what is a enduro event?? is it just laps of the trail centre pr are u just timed coming down a long DH trail set out?
Jump off the high horse mate, with people skills and patience like that I'd be surprised if your skills guiding company gets much business.
Thanks for clicking through to my site 🙂 I do fine thanks.
Afan Argoed is pretty well known by now.
Brynn bettws isn't part of afan argoed. Privately owned so not a part of the FC trails.
So you actually seem pretty well informed or you Googled it...like most people would when looking at a venue.
I did on the Shrewsbury round as i did know exactly where the event was. Amazing thing this internet 🙂
I ride afan regularly, that's why I know about the 4x track. No google needed. Shirley you can see from the description how it could be misinterpreted?
BTW; what is the shrewsbury trail/route like? Never ridden there. Should I just google it?
Not really, common sense tells you that it's not really possible to do an Enduro on a 4x track with 300 riders at 15 seconds intervals.
Also in true Naked Gun style "don't call me Shirley.."
I'm off now i left my high horse loose in the garden.
cubemeup - Membersorry for being dull but what is a enduro event?? is it just laps of the trail centre pr are u just timed coming down a long DH trail set out?
it's based on 1 lap of a trail centre.
you are timed on 6-ish 'special stages' - these are descents, or at least the end is lower than the start (there may be some climbing).
each stage lasts 4-ish minutes.
the winner is the person with the quickest combined time. (about 24 minutes)
it's ace.
it's a bit pricey, but hopefully enough people make enough money out of it to keep trails open/maintained/developed.
the trails aren't difficult, you don't need a dedicated bike, people kick my arse all over the shop riding anything from a unicycle to a Dh bike.
it does sound expensive, but then last years Mountain mayhem was £65 for a solo racer, and all you do there is race around a field and pass over a timed mat, so comparable really - if not better value.
Considering the organisation involved both events seem like a bargain the Gravity Enduro even more so:
MM is a single timing loop (only one timing mat to cross), the multi-stage Endurance format will require several timing stations all of them manned no doubt, event timing is a business not really done on a charitable basis so each set of timing equipment & personnel adds significant cost, once you throw in a spangly “live timing” display for the finish, a PA, Medics (probably need more medics at an event with more "DHey" racing), Marshalling (Even volunteer marshals will incur basic T&S costs), venue fees, Mobile shit houses, catering and all the other peripheral costs then yeah £60 for a weekend of Endurance racing starts to make sense…
MM has run for a long time now and therefore has acquired more sponsorship and the organisers can probably guarantee their suppliers/sponsors/trade stand regulars a good sized event on the same weekend every year for the next 3-5ish years, quite a bargaining chip if you want to try and fix costs and incomes for a regular event, which a “start up” like this simply hasn’t got yet…
MM has run for a long time now and therefore has acquired more sponsorship
Dunno, the event seems to have a longer list of sponsors than even njee20. Still, you don't know how much, if anything, the sponsors are fronting up with.
It's costing more than I expected, but it was on my want-to-do list, and it's not bank breaking so I'll do one or two rounds- to be honest if you wanted to do the whole series then the entry fees would be pretty insignificant compared to the logistics of racing around the country.
It's nice to see the organisers going in balls'n'all to try and make a decent set of events- if it works, good on them- if not, they weren't shy about trying.
For anyone still not really sure what this format is all about, there's a pretty good interview with Steve Parr (the series organiser) [url= http://www.southerndownhill.com/racing/interviews/steve-parr-uk-gravity-enduro-series.html ]here[/url]
As for the price, everyone seemed to be expecting £50-55 for this. Is an extra £5 really going to make all that much difference? I've done several endurance rides in the past few years and I see the CRC ones are £32 - that's just for 1 day riding round the countryside in a huge group, largely on pre-existing rights of way, following signposts, with a very rough overall time given at the end (but it's most definitely NOT a race!) 🙂
Its a total rip off.
I compete in the national (motorbike) enduro championships and northern enduros and these have far more marshall requirements, timing, lap scoring etc etc and they are coming in at £35.
So it looks like a piss take, just like all mountain bike events in the UK
for £40 you can do the Cristalp and that is an event where there are helicopter ambulance cover, road closures, absolutely masses of organistaion etc.
Sancho - I think maybe you should read the rest of the thread, specifically regarding government subsidies of sporting events in Europe when comparing to Cristalp?
Also, why would a motorbike enduro require more expense to set up? I understand maybe more marshalls are needed given the longer distances covered but why more timing, etc? I can't imagine Marshalls are paid much. Not trying to be arsey, just interested.
Some of the comments here seem pointlessly negative.
Is £60 to enter a race event such a big deal compared to how much you spend on your bikes?
If so then fine, don't enter. Spend the money on yet another set of tyres, some overpriced sunglasses or extra bling for your bling bike* that's already blinged up instead.
* not the everyday bike or the hack bike or the CX/road bike.
Yeah but it's not just sixty quid is it. Travelling, food etc.
so you wouldn't pay to travel if you were just riding there instead of racing? and persumably you eat every day! 🙄
mountainbike racing costs a ****ing fortune! deal with it!
No i rarely travel to ride my bike.
Some great comments and some not so great, the website is being constantly updated with info and sponsors ( not just for the winners either).
Lots of questions to try and answer -
The 1 about stickers made me laugh, we need to get fundamentals right first off, then year 2, just for you, a goodie bag is top of list.
Anyone who thinks it's pricey, a DH or XC race has 1 set of electronic timing, we have 5 sets + 12 people running it, FC charges, BC insurance, ground rent on finish arena, toilets, skips,Commissaires, the list is long.
Speaking to an XC racer and he pay's £21-£26 for 1 race, thats possibly 2 hours long, with a little siting lap early on in the day, still think its expensive??
Sancho - Thanks for your comment, won't be expecting to see you trackside in 2011
Will try to keep up with posts, been away for the weekend, so missed a few