The 'no country in the world does this' argument isn't a very strong one - people in favour of the thing will just consider it an opportunity to break new ground with a world first.
Does ANY country in the world require cyclists to have numnber plates and mandatory insurance?
The 'fast' e-Bikes you see in Europe have them on the back, under the saddle. Assume you need insurance too. I 'borrowed' one from an office I was working at in NL to go to another office. They had two to loan out to whoever needed them, and I had to sign it out and back in again which suggests there was some kind of insurance arrangement.
Great fun it was to - massive heavy town/Dutch bike thing that could do 43kph with relative ease but absolutely no more. Once the assist ran out it was like hitting a moving brick wall. It had 4-pot XT brakes too, useful for bring that lot to a stop in a hurry when ridden by some hooligan who's never been on an e-bike before (ahem)...
The Swiss tried a variation of this(velo vignette) and abandoned it about 2012 due to the cost of maintaining the scheme. I was working out there for a number of years and was stopped by the police a couple of times to check if I had the sticker. They would set mini roadblocks up on cycle paths and check if you had registered your bike and also if you were maintaining your bike. I was given a talking to because my bike was too dirty 🙂
It's a stupid idea and will cost a fortune to implement.
The dangerous thing about putting this nonsense out there is that it normalises the othering of people riding bicycles. It confirms every gammon's view that we're interlopers who shouldn't be on the road. I've been run off the road by a white van driver once and this will only make it more likely to happen again.
Came here for the humblebrags. Wasn't disappointed.
The illegal ebikes are probably part pushing this thinking from Gov. Easy to spot, battery, loads of black tape around frame & battery, pushing x mph - crush them bikes and leave the rest of us alone
The cretinocracy in full swing.
Since when has the current government had anything but a stupid idea?
Off to ride my bike and put up with the increase in close passes I get every time some idiot thinks its time to vilify cyclists.
never mind loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing, coughing without due care and attention, walking in a loud shirt in a built-up area, or walking around with an offensive wife.
Classic NtNoN reference, bravo! 😂
I can just see the Pinarello and Rapha crowd spending £200 on the aero number plate board and custom plate "Cyc1e" and their matching leather Rapha licence holder though, so many new marketing opportunities...
Mind you, at the very least it's given the cycling-"activists" on Twitter who're forever posting daily videos of "Look what happened to ME today" a bit of breather, and they can rant about something else, so there's that.
Only good thing would be if we could have personalised plates.
I think I'd have D1E 5HAPP5 or 7UCK T0R1E5
For me the most astonishing aspect of the proposals isn't their obvious stupidity but the fact that they come from a transport minister - the very person you might reasonably expect would want to do everything possible to encourage cycling. It is as bizarre as a health minister suggesting that hospitals should be forced to allow smoking in their canteens.
Although having said that among the cretinous proposals there is one that I would struggle to disagree with. IMO it is hard to argue that cyclists shouldn't have to comply with the same speed restrictions that apply to other road users.
Yes I enjoy the thrill of attempting to trigger a speed limit display but there is no reason to assume that it is safe for cyclists to travel at speeds faster than cars, buses, or HGV. If a speed limit of 20mph is in place for the protection of pedestrians there is no reason to assume that a cyclist traveling at 30mph would be able to stop any quicker than a car - especially as it is obviously likely to be downhill.
Bringing cyclists into line with other road users with regards to speed limits would make practically no difference in most cases, and I suspect that most people who cycle probably aren't even aware that speed limits cannot be currently enforced on cyclists, so it would make very little difference to cycling.
Edit: There would be no need for speedometers btw imo, it could be just the responsibility of the cyclist to ensure that they didn't exceed the limit, which is most cases would be very easy to do.
I would wear my first speeding ticket as a badge of honour. Anyone else try to get a sad face out of the “this is your speed” electric signs!?
29 in a 20 zone last week. I probably shouldn't be pleased with myself, but meh.
Edit: There would be no need for speedometers btw imo, it could be just the responsibility of the cyclist to ensure that they didn’t exceed the limit, which is most cases would be very easy to do.
I don't know how its easy without a speedo. I can do a steady 17mph on the road without bursting myself. Doesn't take much of a gradient and/or favourable wind to put that over 20, (see above) but without a speedo how can I be brought to book for that?
"Excuse me sir, are you aware how fast you were cycling?"
"Er, no officer"
We used to be able to hav a go at the forriegns but we can’t know coz its rasict. We hav to hate sumfing so bleedin cycists it is.
The dangerous thing about putting this nonsense out there is that it normalises the othering of people riding bicycles
First they csme for the foreigners....
Sick of governments demonising groups to divert attention from the fact that the problem exist because the government has failed to do its job properly.
I don’t know how its easy without a speedo
Most cyclists can't "easily" exceed the vehicle speed limits. If you have a problem then it's up to you to have the technical means to know what speed you are doing imo. After all you seem to know that you did 29mph last week, which sounds pretty precise.
I was trying to work out the logistics of registration tabards. (I wear a backpack to work most days, which would cover a tabard. If I wore it through the winter it would fall apart quickly and I'd need to have a few so that I always had a washed one that didn't stink of sweat and road grime. Maybe companies could make gravel tabards and enduro tabards That sort of thing.)
Then I though that the tattoo suggestion was good, but it would need to be on a shaved part of the back of the head. But....helmet.
This leads me to compulsory helmets, with reg numbers printed on them, maybe sticking up like a sandwich board.
I say Grant Shapps needs a hoof in the slats.
Bringing cyclists into line with other road users with regards to speed limits would make practically no difference in most cases, and I suspect that most people who cycle probably aren’t even aware that speed limits cannot be currently enforced on cyclists, so it would make very little difference to cycling.
So why waste a load of money implementing legislation for something that doesn't actually cause a tangible problem and is only achievable for a minority of people on bikes? Sure, I'd agree if bikes were killing thousands a year like cars but they're not, it's a total waste of time that would just widen the divide
Schrodingers cyclist - simultaneously holding up motorists who deserve priority whilst also recklessly breaking the speed limit
Personally I think they should consider extending the idea of registration tabards to also pedestrians.
Reminds me of a 2000AD/Judge Dredd storyline where everyone was opting to have all their facial features standardised so they couldn't be recognised.
So the Justice Department passed a law requiring ID numbers front and centre of the forehead...
I think the most effective way to stop this sort of shit from people like Shapps is to engage in the same culture war nonsense that they do. Accuse him of hating poor folks or kids. Accuse him of targeting minorities who can't afford public transport or a car. Accuse him of defending pollution, accuse him of allowing people to get fat behind the wheel of a car.
Facts are like water off a ducks back to these stupid suggestions.
I'm pretty sure speed limits apply to cyclists as things stand you just can't enforce it with speed cameras. surely it'd be cheaper just to pay for more coppers though!
Most cyclists can’t “easily” exceed the vehicle speed limits. If you have a problem then it’s up to you to have the technical means to know what speed you are doing imo. After all you seem to know that you did 29mph last week, which sounds pretty precise..
It was one of those roadside speed sensing signs.
And I have no problem with the concept of breaking the speed limit on my bike, because I'm a dick.
Whilst you lot are moaning, I'm getting ahead of the curve.
Already registered my personalised plates:
RE 81 ITE
H1 VIS
K111 PED
Whilst he is a massive bellend - with the rise of illegal e-bikes the government is falling behind on legislation.
Maybe if they did something about them, put in decent infrastructure that we actually could use then a lot of this would go away. The only downside I can see is they & the media couldn't demonise cyclists.
I think the most important thing to remember has this has taken the attention away from the cost of living crisis so therefore it's a Tory win
Whilst he is a massive bellend – with the rise of illegal e-bikes the government is falling behind on legislation.
Same with e-scooters. There's a few half-arsed trials going on, some heavily geofenced and speed limited restrictions in place to make them as impractical as possible but nothing of much substance going through.
It'd be an absolute revolution in micro-mobility and there are already thousands of the bloody things in use illegally anyway. The police aren't able to crack down on those so speeding cyclists would no doubt come under the same banner of "no problems, no point doing anything". But either way, his announcements today (which seem to have surprised and confused even DfT) is just another dead cat to hide how little use he actually is and how little has been done.
"I'm a keen cyclist, I'm very proud of the big expansion in the number of miles being cycled. I'm not attracted to the bureaucracy of registration plates. That would go to far."
Shapps in The Times, apparently.
Different story in The Daily Heil.
Anyway, he's a Tory, ATAB now and it's not worth listening to their BS. Better to spend your energies trying to convince any marginal or 'scared of Labour/Lib Dem' type voters you know to vote the ****s out at the next opportunity.
Melissa Kite (a journalist who writes for the Mail and Spectator) is another one pushing for this with her inflammatory anti-cycling articles. .
And, surprise surprise, has been on Question Time.
The ‘fast’ e-Bikes you see in Europe have them on the back, under the saddle. Assume you need insurance too. I ‘borrowed’ one from an office I was working at in NL to go to another office. They had two to loan out to whoever needed them, and I had to sign it out and back in again which suggests there was some kind of insurance arrangement.
But aren't they effectively covered under some sort of "electric moped" classification? So almost a motorvehicle?
I’m pretty sure speed limits apply to cyclists as things stand you just can’t enforce it with speed cameras. surely it’d be cheaper just to pay for more coppers though!
Nope, they were written out of the legislation around speeding in the 30's or 40's IIRC.
Can only be done for “cycling furiously”. Which is almost impossible to prove or prosecute.
20 on the flat is easily acheivable on a road bike
Is it?!? I’m gonna say it’s only sustainable for a pretty small percentage of cyclists.
Yep tbh a mere 23 mph is going some and Joe public isn't hopping on his BSO and hitting that.
(Unless he's on his unrestricted ebike 🙂 )
Joe public isn’t hopping on his BSO and hitting that
not on a plastic tyred "full suss" that cost £150...
But I maintain that someone who partakes in some sort of exercise could get an appropriately geared and tyred road bike up to and exceeding 20mph for a short period of time - like for 30 seconds or so anearobically, but without completely exhausting themselves.
Having the stamina, strength and technique for a 30 minute time trial at the same speed, is a different kettle of fish.
quick google suggests 210 to 220 watts for 20mph. On the flat, and probably assumes a skin tight outfit.
journalcolumnist who writes for the Mail and Spectator
There's no such thing as a Mail/Spectator journalist, just people who write opinions for content.
I recently had a (friendly) argument with a police officer about this. He stopped me to say I must have been cycling at more than 20 in a 20 mph zone. I tole him I was flattered, but there was no way I was doing that speed on the bike I was riding (a Whippet), that I could do more than 20 but I'd know about it as it would require so much effort.
After a bit of back and forth I showed him what Strava said I'd been doing. Another pause where I explained how to convert kph to mph, and he agreed I'd been doing 17-18 mph.
Anyway, back to Shapps: what a twunt. And proven liar.
But I maintain that someone who partakes in some sort of exercise could get an appropriately geared and tyred road bike up to and exceeding 20mph for a short period of time
I think this is where it comes down to definitions. The 20mph is with regards to 20mph limit areas and Shapps or whatever name he is using today saying "cyclists can easily exceed those".
Whilst I would agree with you I wouldnt classify that as easy if you can only achieve it for a short period of time and requires deliberate effort or favourable conditions. So number of people doing it are going to be rather low and hence begs the question whether its worth all this number plates and other rubbish.
So number of people doing it are going to be rather low and hence begs the question whether its worth all this number plates and other rubbish.
absolutely agree its rubbish. and also agree that
this is where it comes down to definitions.
however, I feel a lot of people here are applying our elitist cycling bias to definitions of what counts as a long time, and a long way.
A 30min/10 mile TT may be a "short" event by our standards - whether we are athletes or armchair fans - but to your average urban commuter/sunday pub tourer those are a big ride. It would be like me entering an Audax and moaning that I couldnt maintain my FTP all the way around.
Just a dead cat story.
God I hate this "government"!!!
^ is it to avoid talking about just how much raw sewage water companies* pumped into rivers and seas yesterday?
*significant Tory donors and by that, Tories themselves ...and ATAB
Imagine being Transport Minister and thinking the country to copy when it comes to cycling is North Korea rather than the Netherlands
…how much raw sewage…
https://twitter.com/withorpe/status/1558122110597431296?s=21
BBC World at One had quite a long piece on this cycling non-story. Nothing new in it. Was quite balanced though. Nothing on raw sewage.
But aren’t they effectively covered under some sort of “electric moped” classification? So almost a motorvehicle?
Yes, they are. Hence the plates.
is it to avoid talking about
No, the whole “dead cat” thing is a neat story we tell ourselves, but that would entail the Tory party being conniving and cunning. Shappis just a tool, he can no more be conniving or cunning than I can perform open heart surgery.
they say things like this becasue it’s the first thing that comes into his head when asked by the DM, which is why he gave the Times a completely different answer.
He’s just stupid
I say grant shapps is a moron.
It's all just more loud, distracting noises to keep their other activities out of the public eye. Except there's always the risk that Grant keeps his current job in the next reshuffle and then has to follow through, Flexing the Tory majority in order to keep favour with the spiteful, dwindling blue rinsers that he's promised this unenforceable bollox to...
I'm not putting ****ing number plates on my bikes, and more importantly I don't believe the police have the resources or inclination to bully bicycle users for the sake of placating DM reading biddies...
He does need putting back in his box, someone put him on QT opposite Chris Boardman please...
