He does need putting back in his box, someone put him on QT opposite Chris Boardman please…
Boardman wisely refuses to go on programmes like that although how he manages to maintain his patience when asked about it for soundbites is beyond me. I'd have sighed and called Shapps a f-ing idiot within the first 5 seconds, Boardman manages to be so diplomatic and so professional!
Imagine being Transport Minister and thinking the country to copy when it comes to cycling is North Korea rather than the Netherlands
That gave me a sad chuckle, as it's true. I also liked the phrase "cretinocracy" further up the page.
DEPORT ALL CYCLISTS TO RWANDA!!!!
Just had a quick read up about Rwanda on Wikepedia - sounds alright better than the UK right now. If Grant pays for the plane I think I'd take him up on the offer
I also liked the phrase “cretinocracy” further up the page.
+1.
No, the whole “dead cat” thing is a neat story we tell ourselves, but that would entail the Tory party being conniving and cunning. Shappis just a tool, he can no more be conniving or cunning than I can perform open heart surgery.
Yes which is how him, Truss, Dories etc get those jobs - Confidence:Intelligence ratio all biased towards being useful front-people. The conniving and cunning goes on where we can't see it, in the think tanks and pressure groups who pull their strings. That's why they're all lost when questioned, none of it comes from themselves.
I agree with you though, it'd be a dead cat if it was the odd thing here and there. Currently there's so much of it all continually happening that there's no way it's calculated, it's all just their mess among substitutes for policy or control. The tory supporter papers are the only ones being opportunistic with the stories.
Since when would anyone worth their salt listen and action anything G.S. wants ? (Bear in mind I do not follow politics)
Though just another 🤡 in the lineup imo.
Rather than number plates, licensed tabards or tattoos, isn't the obvious solution to have every cyclist chipped. A bit like cats & dogs currently but with GPS tracking as well, so that every time we jump a red light, exceed 20 or mow down a granny, we can be easily nabbed..?
You would have to report to the Council for Safe Cycling offices (G4S) once a week to get the unit checked, data downloaded and the battery recharged, of course.
I agree with you though, it’d be a dead cat if it was the odd thing here and there. Currently there’s so much of it all continually happening that there’s no way it’s calculated, it’s all just their mess among substitutes for policy or control.
I do wonder if there's an element of distracting from another 2 days of train strikes (tomorrow and Saturday which means the Friday and much of Sunday will basically be screwed as well).
I mean, God forbid that Shapps should be asked anything about that! Now he won't be, there's 2, maybe 3 days of media time in this story.
How to win at being Transport Secretary when it's just been announced that this year was the worst on record for rail reliability.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/16/uk-has-least-reliable-year-for-rail-travel-since-records-began
Oh, and every item of outer clothing will have to have a yellow bicycle wheel stitched or embroidered onto it in a prominent position, to prove to the grateful public you've been chipped and are under scrutiny.
that there’s no way it’s calculated
Indeed, as @binners would say, they can't be trusted to run a bath, or be in charge of even putting the bins out. Read an article a while back that was written (apparently by a standing Tory MP) bemoaning the state of his own party. His summary was that most of the intake from as far back as 2010 have literally no ideas beyond parroting sub-Thatcher rhetoric that's plays well with the Eastbourne set, and have no real comprehension that they could loose their jobs. he was laughing about the image that most of the left seem to have of them that they are some sort of ruthless machine operating to make a few cronies richer, when in reality in his opinion most are just collecting a (generous) wage while doing as little as possible. One recent intake even asked his constituency board what made them select him, the answer was: "The lovely things you said about your wife"
Shapps is just the 21st C version of the Cones Hotline, and look how well the Tories did after they got to that stage last time
If a speed limit of 20mph is in place for the protection of pedestrians there is no reason to assume that a cyclist traveling at 30mph would be able to stop any quicker than a car – especially as it is obviously likely to be downhill.
Except the small matter of physics.
Bringing cyclists into line with other road users with regards to speed limits would make practically no difference in most cases, and I suspect that most people who cycle probably aren’t even aware that speed limits cannot be currently enforced on cyclists, so it would make very little difference to cycling.
Edit: There would be no need for speedometers btw imo, it could be just the responsibility of the cyclist to ensure that they didn’t exceed the limit, which is most cases would be very easy to do.
So pointless, as mentioned and "easy to do"?
How many football fields per second is 20 mph? Or is that measured in penalty boxes or some other arbitrary measurement I have absolutely no frame of reference for?
Applying car speeding "logic" would we get the fabled 10% plus 2 tolerance?
As wind resistance goes up with the square of speed, finding the massive amount of extra Wattage to sustain 24mph would be well beyond an even larger majority of cyclists - so apart from downhills it would be almost totally self policed by the laws of physics anyway.
Utter, utter bellend, these politicians don't live in the real world!
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment......
Given the main objective is to ensure that cyclists have a complete, justified and absolute right to share the roads - both legally and morally that is unequivocal and devoid of a 'but....' from the knuckle draggers we must share the planet with.......what would the world look like if we had to have insurance, 'road tax' and identification?
Yes it would be a hassle - but most of us manage to get beyond that to get behind a wheel of a car.
I'm not saying I want it, but I would rather like a world without 'those' comments from the opposition.The ones used as an excuse for their true predudices. To be able to say - "**** you, you twunts - you wanted me taxed, plated and insured - so here I am - now get the **** out of my way!".
self policed by the laws of physics anyway.
See the ‘laws’ don’t apply to Tories or so they like to believe.
Yes it would be a hassle – but most of us manage to get beyond that to get behind a wheel of a car.
The annual expense and **** on is why we choose not to have a car and have bikes instead. The idea can get in the ****ing sea along with the ****ing morons that think this populist shit up.
Can't police the use of e-scooters, which are not legal. How the hell will they police me on the hills or at 10yo on a pumtrack, or a 4yo on the Sunday morning pedal?
Can’t police the use of e-scooters, which are not legal. How the hell will they police me on the hills or at 10yo on a pumtrack, or a 4yo on the Sunday morning pedal?
Indeed - it would be pointless...apart from removing a fake excuse for a reason for gammons to hate. The same gammons that want this are also the ones that leave comments about police involved in stopping motorists speeding or drink drive campaigns that should be redeployed to prevert 'real crimes'.
But this is about bike use on roads....not you in the hills or at a pumptrack.
How to win at being Transport Secretary when it’s just been announced that this year was the worst on record for rail reliability.
Hmm. How they really win is by protecting donor's profits. They exist to direct tax revenue into private companies who return it with donations that keep them in power. They don't GAF about train prices or reliability.
he was laughing about the image that most of the left seem to have of them that they are some sort of ruthless machine operating to make a few cronies richer, when in reality in his opinion most are just collecting a (generous) wage while doing as little as possible.
Most probably are but there's a few who do know what they're doing. Johnson's one of them, he isn't stupid. I mean he's no genius either but that old Eton boys network can be worked to keep them rich and it has a pretty bad knock-on effect for the rest of us.
Yes it would be a hassle – but most of us manage to get beyond that to get behind a wheel of a car.
You have hit the nail on the head there - it would indeed be "a hassle".
Which absolutely guarantees that there would be less people cycling than there are at present, and less cycle journeys made.
Is this really what a transport minister should be working towards in this age of congested roads, pollution, and energy/fuel shortages?
Never mind the increased costs to other government departments such as the Department of Health due to rising cases of strokes, type 2, etc, etc.
Never mind the increased costs to other government departments such as the Department of Health due to rising cases of strokes, type 2, etc, etc.
The main increased cost would be to the Government department that had to run and manage all of this! It's totally unworkable.
Is this really what a transport minister should be working towards in this age of congested roads, pollution, and energy/fuel shortages?
Not to mention the obesity crisis crippling the nhs
Can only be done for “cycling furiously”. Which is almost impossible to prove or prosecute.
Anybody else want a conviction for cycling furiously or is it just me?
This is what Baroness Vere of Norbiton
Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) had to say in answer to a written question less than a year:
The Government has no plans to introduce a mandatory registration scheme for cycle ownership. The costs of doing so would outweigh the benefits, and this would deter many people from cycling particularly if cyclists (including children) had to cover the costs of such a system.
There would be many practical difficulties too: registration plates would need to be large enough to be seen by cameras and other road users, and there is not generally enough space on bikes to allow for this.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2021-11-01.HL3569.h
I don't know how effective cameras would be in recognising the registration number on a creased tabard of a bent over cyclist riding on the drops.
But I do know that Grant Shapps publicly outing himself as knuckle-dragging halfwit must have made Mick Lynch chuckle today.
So I live abroad. So when I arrive at a UK port of entry with my bike, will there be a little booth for me to buy a bike registration and insurance? And will it be open 24*7*365?
To be able to say – “* you, you twunts – you wanted me taxed, plated and insured – so here I am – now get the * out of my way!”.
Except there would not be any cyclists! Are you prepared to ask every family to cough up £300 lessons, £37 cycling test, £100+ registration fee, £200+ on an accurate Speedo (only govt. permitted ones of course), plus the £100 head to toe luminous outfit, plus £30 helmet, plus £50 'approved' lights, plus £20 registration plates and mounts, plus £120 insurance, plus £10 reflectors on bike as per BS.
If you change your bike, you have to re-register and MOT it.
Then of course you will *have* by law to use that cycle lane, not the road.
And of course if you ride 2cm further out from the kerb or look at an entitled driver wrong, they will make a repo okrt to the police on 101.
(Can I also ask if scooters, runners, pedestrians or similar should also be registered and taxed? What about a bike that never goes on the road? What about a bike with two people on, or a baby seat? Trailer test? Pannier licence? Where does it stop?)
It's ridiculous to consider that a cyclist should be registered and taxed.
This is total dead cat combined with appealing to a certain voter demographic. It is ridiculous.
Oh, and those posters who are arguing whether an "average" cyclist could exceed 20mph for any meaningful distance, you do realise that you're discussing the UK (hilly) and not the Netherlands (flat)? And that speed limits don't just apply to the flat parts of the country?
So, yes, ANY cyclist, irrespective of their fitness can exceed 20mph easily if the gradient is in the favour...
😃
I've only scanned through the thread so apols if this has already been said. Shapps has become a dangerous individual not because of number plates but because of the 'legitimacy' he gives to moron like himself who see me and my family out enjoying a bike ride as flies to be swatted and without consequence. it's become difficult to be openly homophobic or racist for the bigoted masses. This is just another channel for some hate, nothing more than that. Grant shapps ypu are a F ING disgrace and an embarrassment to the nation.
"Grant Shapps says we need number plates"
Frankie says... relax.
I'm pretty sure that cyclists number plate (and insurance) has already been debated in parliament - and subsequently dismissed as wholly impractical
This headline occupied the entire front page of the Daily Mail. Must be nothing else happening in the news currently.
Wouldn't effect most people on here if the police did start policing cyclists more heavily though.
We know this is never going to become law but the police will take it as a signal to stop (and then search) a particular demographic more heavily.
"Oh im sorry officer my number plate must have fallan off while i hit the double black"
I think mr Shat seems to be pissed .. my guess he got smoked by a 14 year old on a 26" kona stinky while he did the first climb at Degla on his Cheshire Heckler and now wants revenge.
Even if the Daily Fail anti cycling bigots got their way and we did have to adorn our bike with a number plate and have insurance, said bigots would still treat us like vermin when they encounter us on the road.
i’ve not read the whole thread, i’m too busy to get angry, so sorry if already asked.
how would cycle hire companies manage this?
Speed limit thing is utter nonsense. The whole reason for 20 mph limits is to get motorists driving a 1.6 ton metal box to slow down enough so that if they hit someone they'll break them rather than kill them.
I'm pretty sure that even the most enduro of e-bikes doesn't weigh anywhere near that so speed isn't going to be huge contributing factor in a cyclist/pedestrian collision. On top of the fact that sustaining 20mph in built up area is pretty hard for most leisure cyclists.
Same with red lights - I get that motorists would be jealous of someone cycling through a red light - but where's the danger to anyone in cycling slowly over a crossroads where all the pedestrian lights are green - you just merge with crowd crossing the road.
Other road users need to understand the effort involved for cyclists in stopping and starting for red lights - its completely pointless to stop at an empty pelican and creates unnecessary effort.
However, blasting through reds when other traffic has green lights - that just means you've got a deathwish.
Speed limit thing is utter nonsense. The whole reason for 20 mph limits is to get motorists driving a 1.6 ton metal box to slow down enough so that if they hit someone they’ll break them rather than kill them.
Would be nice if drivers could stick to the 20 limit. There is a 20 mph limited section of road near me. When I drive it at 20, I have people tailgating me. If I ride it at 20 (slight downhill - Garmin notified speed), i have cars overtaking me.
The double standards just amaze me (same with RLJs)
i will need a response for the rednecks in the pub.
maybe just point out that i dont even have pedal reflectors
On top of the fact that sustaining 20mph in built up area is pretty hard for most leisure cyclists.
I agree, cyclists being forced to comply with speed limits would in most cases make very little difference. Which is presumably why so many cyclists appear unaware that speed limits don't apply to them.
However I do consider that a cyclist going downhill at 35mph in a 20mph is both unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Not only because of the inability to stop suddenly but because pedestrians and other road users in slow moving traffic are very likely to be caught unaware by a very fast moving silent solitary cyclist.
Even if cyclists are forced to comply with highway speed limits there will still be plenty of opportunities to cycle very fast. There's really no need to be an arsehole and demand that speed limits should never apply to you. IMHO
Will there be a little booth for me to buy a bike registration and insurance? And will it be open 24*7*365?
It would only be open between 3pm and 5pm on a Tuesday, and never coincide with any scheduled arrival.
Same with red lights – I get that motorists would be jealous of someone cycling through a red light
Loophole - You arrive at lights just as they change to red, or as a pedestrian crossing signal comes on. Jump off the bike, quickly walk it across then jump back on again.
Then ride off, center of lane as per highway code at about 10mph, so when they catch up with you they're further held up.
Dont forget to be wearing your riding jacket with 'Blame Grant Shapps' and his email address emblazoned on the back.
Given the main objective is to ensure that cyclists have a complete, justified and absolute right to share the roads – both legally and morally that is unequivocal and devoid of a ‘but….’ from the knuckle draggers we must share the planet with…….what would the world look like if we had to have insurance, ‘road tax’ and identification?
Yes it would be a hassle – but most of us manage to get beyond that to get behind a wheel of a car.
I’m not saying I want it, but I would rather like a world without ‘those’ comments from the opposition.The ones used as an excuse for their true predudices. To be able to say – “* you, you twunts – you wanted me taxed, plated and insured – so here I am – now get the * out of my way!”.
You're sort of missing the point, cycling is fundamentally a "free" way of getting about for utility or leisure, start taxing and licencing it and you kill the appeal for huge swathes of people who just want to get to the shops or their Nan's house. Kids being able to cycle places is a first taste of free movement and introduction to controlling a vehicle. Plus it the health benefits still outweigh the social impact of bicycles by a substantial margin...
simply complying with the unreasonable demands of a bunch of idiots that inexplicably hate a form of transport which is much longer established, far more egalitarian and more socially beneficial than their beloved Cars only emboldens the bastards to look for even more regressive and unnecessary ways to screw up our country...
Grant should only get to even broach the topic of bicycle registration once he intervenes and solves the rail worker strikes, guarantees all passengers a seat, gets rid of the need to pre-book bikes on trains, un****s HS2, implements plans for proper leccy vehicle charging infrastructure, puts an end to mobile using drivers, backs proper cycling infrastructure in all towns and cities...
He's not working in the nation's interest he's just running interference and trying to keep his cabinet spot by proving he can work the same dog whistles as Liz... My Money is on a sideways promotion to health. The new boss will need an ineffectual puppet there to repeats slogans while she quietly chops away...
If you hit an OAP and on the ck them down resulting in them breaking a hip, isn't their life expectancy only 20% surviving more than 2 years? (Loss of mobility, causing health problems, resulting in early death) current rules on "a year and a day" aren't compatible with how angry that's making petrolheads feel.
I remember when we had to take our bikes into the police station to have a die stamped into the BB shell with a unique registration number and pay our zim$10 annual fee. If the die broke your BB shell there was no comeback.
OH, amd I was living under Mugabe.
Grant Shagabe!
What is it 2 deaths a year caused by bike vs 1700(300ish being kids) caused by cars which already have an infrastructure for policing the speed.
Yep that cyclings a big problem.
Not being funny but these people are happy to shite on you and your beach.
My leccy bill went up but not 200% and the vat rate was discounted and a windfall tax was applied - honestly I work from home have no gas or solar and its 100-120 euros a month.
(and this has been going on for months).
The petrol was discounted by 20c a litre and bus/ rail travel tickets had a 30% discount and some multi travel commuter tickets ar now free till the end of the year.
Your lot are sitting it out and milking you whilst saying everyones in same boat throwing the odd populist thing out to distract that they are happy for you to be in a shit position.
(sorry for getting on my political soapbox - but sat on the outside gives a different viewpoint and it irks me how they keep getting away with it)
Grant Shagabe
That's a mental image none of us needed!
If you hit an OAP and on the ck them down resulting in them breaking a hip, isn’t their life expectancy only 20% surviving more than 2 years
As opposed to doing the job properly and hitting them with a car which is an 'accident' 🙁
(dunno how to do an ironic smiley)
Guardian article this morning: "This media coverage matters. Some studies have linked anti-cycling media coverage to drivers being more aggressive towards cyclists on the roads."
As evidenced by me this morning on a pre-work cycle. Plodding up a quiet road when a car approaches from behind, slows alongside me, the driver shouts "Where's your licence plate mate" before accelerating away.
Grant Shapps, a weapons-grade see you next Tusday.
