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ah but geoff its a visitor centre, not a cafe 🙂
And davidtayforth, I was simply asking a question. No need to get shirty.
i presume you meant me, Kit, and I was just asking a question too.
Mhmmmmmmmmm deep fat fryer fat
i likes a deep fat fryed pizza from the local chippy after a big day out
If you think The Hub is expensive then I suggest you avoid Grizdale Forest... a trip there would probably give you a bit of an idea about the direction the FC is taking with visitor centres these days as that one only got finished fairly recently.
ok Geoff I'll promise not to keep dragging up inconvenient facts and posing awkward questions if you tell me about the Central Scotland Development Cluster.
ah but geoff its a visitor centre, not a cafe
Sorry, I thought rlemkin was referring to the Hub, not the new centre.
its ok, that one was a troll..
I think it's a tragic decision, and I have trouble finding words that express how gutted I feel on their behalf. I doubt many folk on here know how much, over the years, those two have put into making Glentress (and Innerleithen) what they are, and how much they've put into the sport in a number of ways. They've played a big part in making something really good in the Tweed Valley, and have helped put smiles on an awful lot of faces through mountain biking. Personally I feel pretty disgusted at all the glib comments of 'It's only business' on here, as the Hub is a major part of the community if you live here. I doubt very much whether a new place will reflect any of the good vibes that the Hub is usually stuffed with, but more than that, it just seems wrong that people who have put so much work into creating something should get removed from it so clinically. If you don't think this stinks, ask other folk who know what Emma and Tracy have put into the sport - I'm pretty sure the likes of Peaty, Macaskill, Tracy Mosely as well as just about every top rider or activist who's come from these parts will find the FC's decision pretty hard to accept. Neil
Been to Grizdale now there is a way to make money sorry "provide the outdoor experience". Facilities all very nice and shiny but very sterile felt a bit out of place in my sweaty bike kit. More designed for the garden centre brigade to exerince the outdooor.
Sadly it looks like the FC want to give the "experience" to people at the peel hence all the shiny glass and timber, id rather have some proper grub and a cosey atmosphere and wonky seats.
All I can say to E+T is make the most of the next year as im sure there are plenty of supporters out there that will help make it there best year yet.
i presume you meant me, Kit
Er, yes, sorry!
+1 to laraichean
also...
I found the staff in the bike shop and the cafe rude every time I went there.
That's odd. I have only ever found the staff in the bike shop and the cafe polite and friendly even when under pressure and tired at the end of a long saturday dealing with rude and unfriendly punters demanding things faster, cheaper, with icing on top.
For me the Hub Cafe and a host of other similar venues I have enjoyed over the years will always be part of what makes mountain biking great. I will miss it.
I'd also like to say thanks again to the guys in the shop who have fixed my bike for me, for free, at no notice, on several occasions, with a smile. Smiles do wonders I find.
ok Geoff I'll promise not to keep dragging up inconvenient facts and posing awkward questions if you tell me about the Central Scotland Development Cluster.
You can drag up as many facts as you like. I quite like the smell of sour grapes in the evening 😉
Seriously though, just because mistakes were made over CV, does it really mean that all FC initiatives are ill advised or somehow corupt? They appear to be damned if they do try and do something and damned if they don't.
Does anyone remember the Ikea advert when they came to Edinburgh?
If you're interested in getting involved with the development cluster, why not get in touch with Graeme McLean directly. I'm sure you must have something to give which the cluster could benefit from?
>Personally I feel pretty disgusted at all the glib comments of 'It's only business' <
Here here. Pretty damn easy to say when it's not your business...
>MTB trail centre cafes should be subsidised by the tax payer<
Which is in all all likelihood what it will be - hence what I consider to be the relevance of my earlier remarks.
My only recent experience of Grizedale was a picnic at the picnic tables. Which was fine. Good ice cream. Plenty of space outside but didn't explore the indoor bit. Whinlatter on the other hand.......
Does anyone remember the Ikea advert when they came to Edinburgh?
No what did it say????
>MTB trail centre cafes should be subsidised by the tax payer<Which is in all all likelihood what it will be - hence what I consider to be the relevance of my earlier remarks.
So it's OK for you to benefit from trails paid for out of the public purse, but if there is a whif of pump priming / subsidy to get a new visitor centre built you go all handbags.
It may be sad that the guys from the Hub wont operate the cafe in the new centre, but surely if they were awarded on grandfather rights, rather than through a clear and transparent tendering process then there would be uproar as well.
Oh, I forgot, ALL FC staff are incompetent crooks 🙄
Night night!
Does anyone remember the Ikea advert when they came to Edinburgh?
Traditional tartan shortbread tin with the highland cow replaced with an Ikea store and the word progress above.
I was going to chip in with my tuppenceworth, but laraichean has put it far better than I ever could. 100% agree with him.
Whether or not you like or dislike the current set up is overshadowed by the fact that whoever has 'won' or will win the contract will more than likely be a larger company that will be missing the soul and character that there is presently.
This is now a situation for blandness and uniformity to appear - sadly it's what seems to make money these days.
If people feel strongly enough about it then there is only one solution. Vote with your feet and wallet.
Our industry is small, the only people who make real money are the larger players selling the lowest common demoninator.
If you don't like it then let it be known. The fact there is not a huge shop making millions there currently is probably a good sign that there is not the desire or need or market for anything else than what the girls have built.
If the FC intend opening it up as a Centreparcs style operation which i have sneeking suspicion is the case then they might be a bit disappointed in that most 'riders' may keep on driving the extra few miles to Innerleithen.
Show your support to the people there now - send an email to the right people and say what you think, as a customer and enthusiast. Do we really need a glass fronted bike superstore and cafe down there? I aint a massive fan of portakabins myself but it is not a faceless soulless temple to all that is wrong with going outdoors and having a top time with your mates. I fear that is what we are going to get.
Here, here.
I was going to chip in once more with my tuppenceworth, but this time it's thebikechain who have put it far better than I ever could. 100% agree with him/them.
him
Yup. Disappointed for Emma and Tracey. I say its my intention to keep using the Hub. I hope I do.
I guess the FC are looking to create another David Marshall Lodge in the Trossachs. Its for the wider audience which the Hub has limited capacity to cater for. The bikers are just part of the custom they are pitching at. Its been hard I'll bet keeping the hub up to scratch all these years spending money on premises you dont own and most likely dont have the rights under the lease to do what you would like to.
Anyway. We should all remember Emma and Tracey have done a great job over the years and I am a happy customer.
The fact there is not a huge shop making millions there currently is probably a good sign that there is not the desire or need or market for anything else than what the girls have built.
Really? Maybe there isn't the opportunity to make millions, but surely you're not suggesting that things should stay the same with no opportunity for development?
Isn't it that kind of mentality that has resulted in the wonderful highland welcomes you get in some hotels 🙄
I too am disappointed for Emma and Tracy. I hoped they would get the contract for the new cafe.
However the days of the small cramped damp cafe are over. A new larger building is needed especially if glentress is going to expand and diversify. It has always bugged me that when its busy you have to sit outside. I couldn't' take my mother to the old hub.
If you guys feel that strongly about it then set up a campaign. There is a lot of power to be gained from the massed ranks of the users especially as Emma and Tracy have the lease on the old cafe for a while yet.
So as Druidh has pointed out on other subjects. Don't sit around moaning on the internet. Do something. A bit of direct action. Demo outside the new cafe as it opens, organise a boycott or even a blockade. Get off your fat middle-aged behinds and do something
Take a leaf from Gandhis book. he beat the biggest empire the world has seen
Actually yes, I will stick my head over the parapet and say I think there is a case for things staying more or less the same and there not being any development of the sort we are seeing. It's nice like it is, homely, friendly, slightly ad-hoc and somehow these are things that are very much part of our culture here in the UK and it's all the better for it.
There does not always have to be development = bigger, brasher, less personal, more chrome
TandemJeremy - MemberSo as Druidh has pointed out on other subjects. Don't sit around moaning on the internet. Do something. A bit of direct action. Demo outside the new cafe as it opens, organise a boycott or even a blockade.
Oh - boycott please.
Enjoy standing around in the snow while I tuck into some hot food and drink.
I don't have to don a bed sheet and sandals do I?
Geoff J - I don't think so. They don't operate a highland welcome style operation there. The people who work there are all very friendly for a start...
There is development and then there is development. You can milk something now for short term gain or you can build slowly for a lifetime of reward. Usually the lifetime approach works the best - not always, but usually.
Simply installing a larger premises offering MORE OF EVERYTHING isn't what the customer base and potential customer base want.
This may be wrong - i am not saying i am right but in our hobby and sport there is a massive sense of ownership and welcome to new participants. GT does this well already, it's accessible and chilled and laid back, there are great people like Andy B and the 2 Andy W's working in the forest all the time that helps this continue.
Do you think personally that a Alpine Bikes or Evans Cycles adds anything to this? Or would you concede that they will fundamentally change al that has been nurtured over the past years?
Or would you think that a local business with real roots in the area and an obvious desire to operate a sound business in the area may be better suited long term to this type of ultimately small scale operation.
I mean this non confrontation-ally and non prejudicially btw - genuinely fascinated by the range of opinion.
Have the FC at any point actually asked the public what they would like to see at this facility or any others in the range they have? I would love to see the market research.
I am serious. If you think the support is there then organise a campaign. With there being an overlap in the leases you should be able to make a boycott to the old cafe work. NO customers in the new cafe means whoever takes it over fails
Are you prepared to put in the time and effort? Tehr eis ther potential to actually do something here
Are are you just internet moaners?
TBC - it's more than just about the existing market though. It's got to be about attracting folk away from Kinnaird Park for the day, even if it's only to sit in a nice cafe and read their paper in different surroundings - at first. Who knows, maybe the kids they drag along might like the idea of riding a bike too.
The bottom line is that GT is the best trail centre in the UK with plans for a new visitor centre that should broaden the appeal of the destination. Maintaining the status quo is not an option. We've just got to have some faith in FC that the tennants of the new bike shop / cafe / outdoor gear shop bring something extra to it.
FWIW, Grizedale is much nicer since the new cafe and visitor centre replaced the pokey cafe there - much more accessible to families, and that is what it has to be about in the long term.
I still think, after all is said and done, that it is bad karma for the FC to kick out E+T.
I have seen these type of developments before, and also been part of 'changes' from the other side, and I'll say this:
If I was E+T, I'd be thinking maybe this is a good way out. I don't know the ins and outs, but I'm guessing they had to get together some pie-in-the-sky business plan where everything was going to grow 100% a year and they could cover a 500% increase in rent etc etc. This type of thing can easily go tits up, and they could have ended up overstretched or bust.
I understand change, improving things, not getting stale etc etc, but I think that too many times, the soul gets cut out of these type of developments and gets lost. IMHO a proper development plan would have incorporated things rather than discarding them.
Just so long as there is somewhere to hang up all the pressure suits and full facers, it'll all be fine...
I have a group of clients, whom I lease bikes to incl tcl/mbl instruction.
One week they may want bikes at Aberfoyle, next week Callander, next week Mugdock park, next week Carron Valley.
But one week they wanted Glentress.
So there I was at Glentress emptying bikes from the van at the bottom car park, when emma(the guy woman) comes out ranting and raving accusing me of stealing her business etc etc.
Now if I was selling bacon rolls/bike parts/public bike hire etc, she might have had a point.
It may well be she's ruffled more than my feathers? No sympathy here.
steffybhoy
there is no need for this
emma(the guy woman)
Bang goes your credibility
snap
Double snap.
O.k
Sorry for the offensive joke, but the rest is correct and true.
There must be more behind it than that. I remember one of them outlining a few incidents of people using her facilities to run classes
That seems familiar... Hang on... <searches> You said much the same in the last thread about this, and Emma responded:
"And as for chasing folk away that do TCL at the venue-rubbish-unless you were the guy that set up in my cafe with your flipchart and marker pens or the guy that started running a how to fix your bike on the decking and put your oily muddy wheels on my tables that folk have to eat off-yes then I probably did chase you away cos you never had the manners to even ask if you could use my cafe as your TCL venue-thats the cafe that I have to pay a rent for-and if you come into the venue and earn a pot of cash out of it and wear out the trails at the same time it would be nice if you put something back because it costs money to maintain those trails that sustain both our businesses. And if anyone is looking for a TCL provider try Brian Salvona-he's a really nice guy that runs courses at Glentress."
But you didn't respond at all then. Want to respond now?
Ah - I just went searching for that as well.
Steffiboy - maybe you were falsely accused but you are the only person that I have heard have a bad word against them on a personal level.
you lads get worse 😆
Absolutely not TJ(taking offence you insinuating must be more 2 it), any facilities used were trails/skills area. Most of the group bought coffee/refreshments from the hub that day, and that's as close to usuing any of her facilities as it got.
Maybe you got teh backlash for others misdeamanours as posted then
Apologies for any offence
We've just got to have some faith in FC
...and there's your problem, right there.
Lots of folk on here have huge admiration and respect for FC staff at the grass roots level, but we're also intelligent enough to be able to distinguish between them and the 'top brass' who are responsible for debacles like the CV episode (and no, I wasn't on the CVDG).
And just out of interest, what's your interest in this (geoffj)? I get the impression that you're employed by one of the quangos to try and recruit free labour to try and meet some set of government targets somewhere?
TJ, no probs.