Following on from [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/has-this-happened-to-your-fox-forks ]this post[/url] it got me thinking ..... have I just been lucky?
I have been running suspension forks since the early 90's starting with the great Rockshox Quadra 10's and moving up through early Marzocchi's, a dabble with a pair of Magura's and now own three RS forks.
Until owning my modern RS forks I have never really done much in the way of servicing my suspension forks 😕
My 1999 Marzocchi's went 10years without a service - new oil but not new seals and the forks were as plush as when I got them. I still ride them now.
However, having seen a number of scored /worn stanctions(?) I am a little more anal with my newer RS forks - a quick seal clean/purge with fresh oil after every ride etc.
This is not meant as a fox bashing post as I reaslize that, in theory, all forks are susceptible but some are more susceptible than others.
Are some seals just better than others?
What be your thoughts?
Not just the seals, stantion material, bushing system/material, amounts/grade and quality of the oil too.
IMO its more to do with the amount of oil. Open bath forks have 100+ml of oil in the legs - this gets splashed around a lot meaning the upper bush is well lubed.
Loco - You must see your fair share of forks in various conditions - would you attribute the wear to the stantion coating as much as anything?
My old Marzocchi forks seem to have a very hard finish - no marks at all.
TJ - Are modern forks still classed as open bath - like Rebas etc?
On the subject of oil i just use Castrol motorcycle fork oil 😕
Should forks be periodically left upside down to soak the wipers?
TJ +1 (!)
Obvious example of this is the older open bath damper fox forks. Loads of oil in one side, naff all the other. Guess which side wears out quickest?
It's a combination of factors, also where people ride has a huge bearing on wear depending on soil type, had a set of forks in the other week from a really peaty area, had stained the paint a yellowy brown and the internals smelt foul
set of forks in the other week from a really peaty area, had stained the paint a yellowy brown and the internals smelt foul
That's exactly like a lass I used to date from a peaty area too. Classy girl.
😆
TandemJeremy - Member
IMO its more to do with the amount of oil. Open bath forks have 100+ml of oil in the legs - this gets splashed around a lot meaning the upper bush is well lubed.
+1
Although IIRC my Z1's have the best part of half a pint in each leg!
My old Marzocchi forks seem to have a very hard finish - no marks at all.
+1
My old 'zocchis look like new, my magura's and RS forks pick up chips really easily, but then again theres 50% or more stanchion on show so more chance of it being hit by stray rocks?
Could it be that manufacturers got wise to consumerism... if things don't wear out, you don't need to replace them.
Also in general the riding we do these days is likely more demanding than back in the day.
My routine involves turning the bike upside down the night before I ride it just to soak the fam rings and get some lube around the seals. After a ride I clean the sanctions and around seals with a rag. Once every two months or so I drop the lowers and clean the seals, rings etc and then stick around 30cc of float fluid in each of the lower legs. I've been doing this for the last two years on my Durins and they have no wear I can see.
I suppose I'll send them off at some point for a damper service but at the moment the are running perfectly well. My old floats were fine too with much the same treatment. A little care is all that's required I reckon.
I also have a mucky nuts mudguard which is very good for keeping shit off the seals and sanctions.
TJ - Are modern forks still classed as open bath - like Rebas etc?
Butting in on his behalf, no.
Open bath forks had no seals between the uppers and the lowers so for example air pressure acted directly on the oil in the lowers in some forks and the dampers were cycling through the oil that just sloshed arround in the lowers. Used arround 250ml in eaach leg.
Newer 'semi-bath' forks have 5-15ml of oil in each lower leg and ~100-150ml in the damping 'cartridge' contained in one of the uppers.
The benifit of open bath is huge service intervals and reliability.
The benifit of semi bath is saving 400g in (mainly unsprung) weight simply by using less oil. And the ability to use different, more specific, oils for lubrication and damping. The downside is lower reliability/regular servicing.
Could it be that manufacturers got wise to consumerism... if things don't wear out, you don't need to replace them.Also in general the riding we do these days is likely more demanding than back in the day.
Naaa, not the former, if it wears out you buy something better, and the latter maybe, but we definately do expect more from kit IMO. E.g. my 100mm zocchis still work perfectly. They do however weigh significantly more than my 150mm bolt through Sektors, and the damping is woefully bad, the bike handles better with the lockout on!
+1 for the muckynutz 'guard, really does do a good job of keeping the worst of the crud away from your fork seals.
TBH i'm still not convinced about the whole idea of having the entire length of your stanchions on show to the elements. I understand the concept of a rubber boot keeping crud in etc but then it seems that the stanchions are in danger of expensive damage every time we fall off/crash?
It cost me £250 several years ago simply by stalling and falling sideways onto rocks, scoring gouges into my Fox Float stanchions 🙁
TINAS - Thank you - all is clear 🙂
Not yet done the damping oil on my RS forks.
These are a pair of Marzocchi forks from 1999 that I am about to refit 😆
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as tinas says
TBH i'm still not convinced about the whole idea of having the entire length of your stanchions on show to the elements. I understand the concept of a rubber boot keeping crud in etc but then it seems that the stanchions are in danger of expensive damage every time we fall off/crash?
It cost me £250 several years ago simply by stalling and falling sideways onto rocks, scoring gouges into my Fox Float stanchions
There used to be some stanchion guards for downhill bikes to protect them on uplift lorries, only ever saw them on NSMB so maybe not available this side of the pond. Looked a bit like the ones on upside down forks, but turned sideways and pointing upwards.
Is there any reason why you wouldn't just add a few CC's more into the lower legs when servicing?
I'm not thinking open bath amounts but 15cc in the example above seems pretty stingy .....
Too much and you'll not get full travel or blow the wiper seals out the leg, so need to be careful of overfilling
You'll notice in Fox forks at least, that the way the stanchions (usually) wear is in the same pattern as the slotted bushings, meaning that its the largely the bushings causing the wear rather than the seals.
Are the newer better fox seals compatible with older f series forks or just for the latest kashima jobbies?
TINAS - i've never seen them for sale but surely it would be a good idea, especially as more and more riders are attempting things that we would haver considered 'rad' a while back? Bikes have become more capable and with longer travel yet our forks are still horribly exposed?
My shock is buried in the frame out of harms way, but the stupidly expensive boingy bits on the front are out there for easy damage.
yes fit all forks, work well with standard coat stantions
As per the other thread, I'm fed up with this: 3 pairs of foxes in our house, all well maintained and all completely shafted after 2-3 years of use. Not good enough for the money they cost.
One of the reasons I've gone over to lefty's - they come with their own issues but the wearing surface is independent of the leg and is replaceable.
I have put extra oil in forks with no ill effects - but also sufered from lack of travel after doing so. It depends on the design.
I have a pair of old foxes which are supposed to have 150 ml in the damping side and 15 ml in the other - they have 150 ml in each and its no issue
TandemJeremy - MemberI have a pair of old foxes which are supposed to have 150 ml in the damping side and 15 ml in the other - they have 150 ml in each and its no issue
That's very interesting.
When I strip down my Recons I'll give it a go - maybe not that much but more than std.
TJ, i said to be careful when refilling 😉
recons - I am not sure there is enough room for extra oil. when the fork is fully compressed there is only a small amount of air space.
Try a bit more and compress the fork with no spring in it to see if full travel is still available - If it hydraulic locks as LOco says it could blow seals
A company called Core Rat made them IIRC, although they only appeared on downhill forks, guess they'd get ripped off by gear cables etc as they extend past the crown on a normal fork. Could bodge something from 2" PVC pipe maybe, hand it from the crown so it overlaps the lowers when it compress'?
I really think the trick is regular lower services at least with rockshox it really is not that hard to do and stops the guck moving into the upper internals. I also run slick honey on the bush's and internals for a smooth breakaway in the fork.
TBH i'm still not convinced about the whole idea of having the entire length of your stanchions on show to the elements.
Nowt wrong with that. It's rare they get damaged by muck etc.