[Closed] Fork experts - is this user error? (blowing seals)

Define 'blown seal'. What's happening? Seals very rarely 'blow' these days.

LBS mech disembled the fork to see if he could fix and he simply said seals had 'blown' (on the trail I noticed a fair bit of oil coming out of the air chamber valve).

Oil coming out a a valve? So air was leaking too? Which valve was leaking?
That sounds like a loose valve, if so, not a 'blown seal'

What were the symptoms of the problem? What alerted you to it?

Symptoms prior to this were inconsistant damping- one mo packing down next moment pogo'ing, little (no) rebound damping and 2step sticking (needing pulling manually). The forks were soo firm that I tried npping some extra psi out of the air chamber on the trail- long thick stream of white oil ensued!

OIl will come out of the air chamber if you let psi out as the air chamber should have a small amount of oil in it. Sounds like a warranty issue to me, unless youve been doingsome fiddling? Which seal did the lbs say has blown?

The forks were soo firm that I tried npping some extra psi out of the air chamber on the trail- long thick stream of white oil ensued!

It will do. That's not a problem. There's lubricating oil in the air cartridge, which, as you'd just been riding, was splashed all around inside the fork and some came out with the air.
Do 2-steps have s seperate air chambers? Or just one?(I've never used one)

Just one air chamber on the 2step. He didnt specify which leg.

PP- the Pikes blew its seals! Confirmed.

Hora, can I be a bit blunt? 🙂

I've been watching your fork threads for a while now and I've come to a conclusion:

Either
a) You have the demands and skills of a world-class rider and need the best, most perfect suspension fork that money can provide on your bike and only when it removes every single tiny ripple from the trail will you be happy.....

or

b) You're expecing too much form your forks, and you spend so long faffing with them and worrying about them, it becomes all-consuming, and you're running around like a headless chicken trying anything and everything to 'fix' them, without any particular logic behind what you do

To be honest, I think it's b) 🙂

From the sounds of this, there was nowt wrong with them at all.

PP- the Pikes blew its seals! Confirmed.

I doubt it. What happened to them?

If the lbs is talking about the oil seals blowing you will have noticed lots of oil on the stanctions and around the seals.
Have you tinkered with the fork internals, oil levels, etc?

If the lbs is talking about the oil seals blowing you will have noticed lots of oil on the stanctions and around the seals.

No, they aren't. And there wouln't be 'lots' from the air spring leg simply because there isn't much in there to start with, and most of that can't escape from the air chamber anyway. 🙂

PP the Pikes hydrolocked and blew the rebound (Fishers words).

Plus (Lyriks)- this happened within a week of buying them fresh off the shelf. So zero faffin.

If the lbs is talking about the oil seals blowing you will have noticed lots of oil on the stanctions and around the seals.

V.Good point. There was no oil on the stanchions.

We all like to think we are world class in our heads...however from my own experiences I'm wondering - is Rockshox's quality heading towards Marzocchi-town? Previously I had a rebound cart replaced on a set of Lyrik coils due to a 'Micah' leak.

Oops wrong topic

And there wouln't be 'lots' from the air spring leg simply because there isn't much in there to start with, and most of that can't escape from the air chamber anyway.

Just one air chamber on the 2step. He didnt specify which leg.

OK, now we're getting somewhere. If a seal had 'blown' in the damping leg, the only effect that could have made a difference is if the damping oil leaked out, which would be either up the top near the adjusters, or internally into the inside of the leg. _NOT_ through the seals between the leg and stanchion.

If they had failed in the spring leg, Something would happen to the feel of the fork - Either it would drop into its travel or turn into a virtual pogo stick, or the 2-step would give up the ghost......And you've just had that modded/fixed yes?

Personally, I'm willing to bet there's nowt wrong with them. Sod what the mechainc says. I wish I could get my hands on them, and you, and sort all you problems out. 10 minute job, I reckon. 😀

V.Good point. There was no oil on the stanchions.

There is 15-20ml in the lowers

Yeah, not very much! 🙂 And being as gravity keeps it mostly at the base of the fork, not much leaks out...... 🙂

Personally, I'm willing to bet there's nowt wrong with them. Sod what the mechainc says. I wish I could get my hands on them, and you, and sort all you problems out. 10 minute job, I reckon.

There is almost zero rebound even on full slow surely thats a cart-prob?

Previously I had a rebound cart replaced on a set of Lyrik coils due to a 'Micah' leak.

You mean mine? 🙂

What is a 'Micah leak' please? I've never heard of that.

PP the Pikes hydrolocked and blew the rebound (Fishers words).

Pffffffffffffffffffffff. So the oil leaked into the lower leg then? And you carried on riding, damaging the rebound cartridge?

Plus (Lyriks)- this happened within a week of buying them fresh off the shelf. So zero faffin.

So, not properly set up then.
On those Lyrics you sold me, I've had 3 big rides so far, and I've not finished setting them up by any means. AND there's no air pressure to fiddle with on those. (The bushings are as slack as **** BTW, gotta get them off to TFT to be sorted....)

Yeah, sounds like the damping oil has drained into the lowers. Ndew o ring should be job done.

There is almost zero rebound even on full slow surely thats a cart-prob?

Without getting my hands on them I can't be sure. I can think of at least one other thing that could be wrong though, so you can't be certain. I'd need top ride them.

Yeah, sounds like the damping oil has drained into the lowers. Ndew o ring should be job done.

Well, it doesn't sound like that to me. Why? Because he's not mentioned loosing travel! 🙂

But yes, you're right, 15 minute fix.

Unless your turning the rebound knob the wrong way!

Unless your turning the rebound knob the wrong way!

That would do it, yes........... 😯

Because he's not mentioned loosing travel!

Why would he lose travel? Travel adjust and air are in the other leg.

Because the leaking oil has to go somewhere. So it leaks into the lower leg. So the fork can't compress all the way. It happened to my Pikes, I ended up with 60mm-ish of travel. And Hora already knows about this because it's happened to him before -

PP the Pikes hydrolocked and blew the rebound

😀

Define 'blown seal'. What's happening? Seals very rarely 'blow' these days.

[img] [/img]

WRONG WRONG WRONG

😉

Yeah, not very much! And being as gravity keeps it mostly at the base of the fork, not much leaks out......

Gotta disagree Pete, when the seals went on my rebas, there was quite a bit of oil on the stanchion, so much so it dribbled down the back of the lowers.

Haha, didnt think about where the oil would go, just the empty space left 😳
And oil wont have come out of the top o ring...i ran a boxxer for 2 weeks in france that was effectively open at the top (tip it upside down and oil ran out!).

Gotta disagree Pete, when the seals went on my rebas, there was quite a bit of oil on the stanchion, so much so it dribbled down the back of the lowers.

Should have been no more than 15cc, or 3 teaspoons, and one teaspoon is certainly enough to run down the fork leg! 🙂 It might look a lot, but I spilled about 1/2 a litre on the garage floor at the weekend doing an oil change on my Vespa. That looked like a supertanker had run aground!

If the rebound push rod seal (where it enters the upper leg) goes on Reba's (and many other forks), then the damping oil will end up in the lower leg, in which case you might find quite a bit coming past the dust/wiper seals if they are worn.

2 step surely has two chambers (similar to dual/solo air on other forks)

What might have happened is the seal between the neg & pos chambers has failed, making the fork feel like a massively preloaded spring.

I've got a Marzocchi MX comp with a broken negative spring which feels exactly like this. No amount of rebound damping will slow it down enough.

I think the Pike Motion Control o-ring failure is caused by two things - normal wear & tear to the o-ring or out of spec parts from the factory. I also wonder if running excessively firm Floodgate settings can exacerbate this by not allowing enough oil through on bit hits.

What is a 'Micah leak' please? I've never heard of that.

Maybe he means 'MoCo' or 'MiCo' for the Pike/Lyrik dampers respectively?

'Micah leak' was on the notes back in the box.

Definitely only one chamber.

The Pikes that failed were <2months old. From memory I had the floodgate at full anti-clockwise with blue dial in full anti clockwise setting as I was running a xfirm spring.

From memory I had the floodgate at full anti-clockwise with blue dial in full anti clockwise setting

So virtually no compression damping at all? That's a bit of a weird set up, no?

So virtually no compression damping at all? That's a bit of a weird set up, no?

Been through this before- I was recommended the xfirm spring which I really didnt like at all 🙄

So virtually no compression damping at all? That's a bit of a weird set up, no?

Yeah, but the high speed 'circuit' (really just a large blow off orifice) doesn't provide very much damping at all when fully open.

When the floodgate is not fully 'open' the blow off will not always open fully (how far it opens depends on the oil pressure) and thus will provide more damping despite being 'open'.

All true, thought i would chime in as lots of people confuse floodgate with a true hsc adjustor...that and im pretty bored right now!

Definitely only one chamber.

Again, I haven't seen these forks opened or nor the tech diagrams but I highly doubt that, air fork without negative spring = shite.

Sorry to hijack the thread but you guys sound like you know what you're talking about. I just have a quick question on my forks.

I have some 2007 Fox Float R 120mm forks. Every now and again (not everytime) when I put air into the forks, when I remove the shock pump from the valve air slowly comes out of the valve, and if I left it, it would continue until no air was left in the fork.

To stop this happening I put the valve cap on straight away and when left for a while I can remove the valve cap and no air comes out at all.

I serviced my forks last weeks and they feel great, really smooth, I inspected all the internals while I gave it a service and couldn't see anything wrong (although not quite sure what i was looking for).

The problem is it's still doing it, could it be the valve itself that has gone??

Craig - Sounds like the valve core is loose. A quick tweak with a valve key will tighten it up.

i think your forks are suffering from Munchhausen syndrome by proxy.
you need proper medical advice and a pair of 'back-up forks'

PeterPoddy - Excuse my ignorance but what is a valve key and where would I need to tighten it? 😳

Valve core remover...
[url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Schrader-Tyre-Valve-Remover-Maintenance-Repair-Tool_W0QQitemZ270515175399QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Cars_Tyres_RL?hash=item3efbf5ffe7 ]HERE[/url]

Hey great thanks for the link.

So do you reckon it needs a quick tighten with this tool?

Or could the valve just be wrecked?

Normally they just need tightening.

Ok great, I'll get it ordered and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help.

Bloody hell pp you've turned into tandem Jeremy.

Bloody hell pp you've turned into tandem Jeremy.

PP is a Shop Steward in a 70's timewarp and a rabid SNP'er?

Bloody hell pp you've turned into tandem Jeremy.

Go on then, explain please, I'm all ears! 😀