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BS. They are no effort to ride up a hill
Ooft, we've got a live one!.
With the rise of Emtbs, I can only imagine what the trail centre of the future will look like, once all those svelte, beautiful mountain bikers we all see all the time have been pushed out forever.
😉
It’s like all those fat MX riders, MotoGP riders you see.
They only put the skinnies on GMBN cos the vain roadies wouldn't watch it otherwise! 🙈🤣
makes no sense. buy an ebike and pedal it harder than a normal bike
Or put the same amount of effort in as a normal bike & do the same ride in half the time, or do twice the number of trails in the same amount of time...
Yes you can put minimal effort in. Which you can also do on a normal bike to be fair.
Yep, next time you see someone pootling along on a bike, BLOODY SHOUT THEM THAT THEYRE DOING IT WRONG! 🤣
“makes no sense. buy an ebike and pedal it harder than a normal bike”
Surely I’m not the only MTBer that pedals harder up shorter climbs?
All I can add to the fitness debate is that as a long covid recoveree and slightly reluctant e-biker, I've found lifting it over stiles an excellent upper body workout. Oh, and when I started riding my cross bike again, the first thing I noticed was that without a motor, you can really feel the dead spot in the pedal stroke.
It's been great for my mental health though and a good way of easing back into proper riding 😉
I ride mine like I ride a normal bike, quite often people will say look he is sweating buckets must be unfit on that ebike 😂
Use the motor like additional gears and ride it hard. I don’t get when I see others out in full jackets and trousers I’m in shorts and T-shirt as normal.
I like the fact I can session stuff and I’ve found it breaks the mental link to the legs, so one week I will do 25 miles of trails on the emtb and then the following week slower I will do the same on the non emtb. It’s a mental thing pushing past my legs and my head saying I’ve done enough.
Oh, and on the fitness side of things. Interesting that e-bikes apparently feel easier to ride in terms of exertion than they actually are:
https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/ebike-effort-versus-regular-bike-392756
'Despite this measurement, participants’ perceived exertion while riding the eMTB was low. In other words, riders didn’t think they ere working as hard as they really were whilst on the ebike.
Though heart rate, energy expenditure, oxygen consumption, and intensity was generally lower compared with a conventional bike, e-bike use still produced moderate physical activity in comparable settings.'
Oh, and on the fitness side of things. Interesting that e-bikes apparently feel easier to ride in terms of exertion than they actually are:
https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/ebike-effort-versus-regular-bike-392756
Pros & cons of ebikes aside, "Study says an e-bike ride is 94% as hard as a regular bike ride" is a *terrible* conclusion from "average heart rate during eMTB use was 93.6% of average heart rate during conventional mountain bike use."
The thing about any analysis of ebikes as an exercise tool is that you need to consider that the motor assistance isn’t fixed. The control systems work by multiplying your torque according to the mode it’s in, but there is a limit to max peak torque and max continuous power (ie torque x revs) and above 15.5mph you get no assistance at all. On short rides if you’re pedalling hard you will spend a lot of time above the speed cut-out and if you’re a decent pedaller there’s no way the max support mode will be able to multiply your torque as much as for less strong riders.
I don’t need three MTBs and I wanted a hardtail more than a second full-sus so my Levo has to fill the role of my old full-sus which means riding it with the power off when I’m with mates on normal bikes, so sometimes my cheaty bike is actually a handicap (in the golf or horse sense) bike.
It would be interesting to use a power meter to compare actual work done.
"It would be interesting to use a power meter to compare actual work done."
I occasionally think about that - but know that if I bring actual data to a forum discussion, it'll escalate into a quasi-religious battle where facts matter far less than illogical fears of ebikes!
BS. They are no effort to ride up a hill. The only tiredness you get is from the upper body workout because they weigh a lo
It all depends how you ride. I tend to ride mine in turbo and pedal hard on climbs. get to the top puffing and sweeating but in half the time
I could also do this with little effort in the same time as a non e bike
Bought a broken ebike on ebay yesterday to cannabalise for bits for my town bike. Mostly for the Alfine 7 speed, Hub dynamo, Magura HS11 and fancy German lights. It seems a shame to part out a 2018 bike which is cosmetically great, LCD suggests it's only covered 1100 miles but although the battery charges, it isn't recognised by the bike as having charge, and I'm told it was making horrible noises. Get a good long warranty if you're buying one.
It would be interesting to use a power meter to compare actual work done.
I think Bosch Gen 4 do this?
I’m sure one screen on my Kiox shows “My Power”.
Found this in the Bosch app
If you choose to put no effort in on an ebike then that’s your choice. It’s the same as those people I’ve seen at the gym who put no more effort into the rowing machine than I do walking downhill to the shops
Yes. Exactly that. I compare it to a spin class. There's always that one person who leaves the class with hair and make up in perfect order, no sweat and then others (me) who leave as a sweaty mess with a puddle on the floor in front of the bike...same class, same bike, different effort.
Yes, you can cruise on an ebike (and that is definitely the case if riding with non ebikers- if you go at their pace) and often the case if you're on a social ride, but you can also get some descent workouts on them.
I'm quite addicted to technical climbs on my ebike and those are great for making you blow out yer a*se/sweat out your eyeballs.
Aye, techy climbs are one of the things I'm really looking forward to when the bike arrives!.
I just can't square the ethical argument. On two big fronts.
Maybe it comes from being a climber - or even from my work - but the sense that you should bring yourself up to the level of the challenge, rather than demand the challenge be made easier for you is pretty much ingrained. If you want to go further, just get fitter. If you want to clean that technical climb - learn to ride your bike better.
Secondly, and much more importantly, you are contributing towards the energy crisis and the erosion of the environment on so many more levels. I'm not suggesting that imported taiwanese carbon bike frames are anything ethical, but they don't require me to plug them in daily. And generally, they don't destroy the trails I ride.
On another thread a respondent was talking about buying a petrol generator to carry to trail centres and plug his bike into whilst he ate lunch. And as much as you can post the odd eBike recycling project where they make a Bluetooth speaker that nobody buys, lithium extraction is nasty business.
On all fronts, it just comes across as a move that smacks of a lack of consideration for anyone else or anything but your own immediate pleasure. Which I have no respect for.
My only exemption is e-commuter bikes, which offload energy production from an ICE to the national grid.
On another thread a respondent was talking about buying a petrol generator to carry to trail centres and plug his bike into whilst he ate lunch.
If that was me, i was actually kidding 😀 i didn't even take the ebike that day. I rode a manual.
Despite owning an ebike, it never gets ridden. I've done 2 rides with mates where it was, all on Ebikes, so needed the extra go in me. Don't get me wrong, they were great days out, but i still actively dislike riding the ebike... basically everything about it is counter to what i like, want and need from a ride. From the noise of the motor, to the assistance, to the weight and handling... Meh... if ebike were my only option, i'd take up golf.
And generally, they don’t destroy the trails I ride.
Your trails are, in the main, a result of erosion.
On all fronts, it just comes across as a move that smacks of a lack of consideration for anyone else or anything but your own immediate pleasure. Which I have no respect for.
I'll start a thread about 'what fun car' in a bit, I can gaurantee you not one soul will mention any of your concerns, but mention an ebike and the high priests will be out in force. Bizarre.
if ebike were my only option, i’d take up golf.
If I had your local riding, I'd be on the first tee with you old boy! 🙂
I just can’t square the ethical argument.
I trust you didn't access this forum via any means which has a detrimental impact to the environment and are currently using recycled paper to do so.
If I had your local riding, I’d be on the first tee with you old boy!
Aye, i hear that one 🙂
I have e road and e mtb bikes plus non e ones and ride them all. On the e ones I tend to go further in the same time, my HR stats are identical on both. I would definitely say that I have less leg fatigue after an ebike ride though.
I haven't ridden in nearly 2 weeks as we have loads of work going on in the house, but went out after work yesterday on my regular road loop, on my Creo Sl. 24 miles, 1500 feet of climbing, average speed 16.7mph, moving time 1:24, ave HR 142. For me that's a decent enough workout, and my legs are only a bit tired today. Bike was in Sport (middle setting) throughout and I used 1/3 of the battery.
Maybe it comes from being a climber – or even from my work – but the sense that you should bring yourself up to the level of the challenge, rather than demand the challenge be made easier for you is pretty much ingrained. If you want to go further, just get fitter. If you want to clean that technical climb – learn to ride your bike better.
Lovely. Sounds like road riding, or running. Of course that is what you like about your riding. For me, I have no interest in the ups, they are a means to an end; to ride down trails, to get to stages to race. I don't get any sense of achievement going out and 'cleaning' a climb or going up it 11 seconds faster than I have before.
On all fronts, it just comes across as a move that smacks of a lack of consideration for anyone else or anything but your own immediate pleasure. Which I have no respect for.
That's a nice bit of virtue signalling. Your point is applicable to anyone using any piece of manufactured equipment for 'fun'.
Maybe it comes from being a climber – or even from my work – but the sense that you should bring yourself up to the level of the challenge, rather than demand the challenge be made easier for you is pretty much ingrained. If you want to go further, just get fitter. If you want to clean that technical climb – learn to ride your bike better.
What an odd argument. There have been loads of advances in equipment over the years that we all take advantage of.
Even aside from that, I’ve a few different bikes (none with electric assistance), and I choose the most appropriate one for the ride I’m doing. Road bikes are definitely faster on road than mountain bikes.
On all fronts, it just comes across as a move that smacks of a lack of consideration for anyone else or anything but your own immediate pleasure. Which I have no respect for.
Does it take you a long time to walk to all those places you go climbing at?
“My only exemption is e-commuter bikes, which offload energy production from an ICE to the national grid.”
My Levo replaced a 50cc scooter and my full-sus and I commute on it and MTB on it. Over 95% of my riding is from my door. How many MTBers drive to ride a large proportion of the time?
I paid actual money for the BLevo app and had it running during my shortest inbound commute today. It's only a short commute, just over 10 minutes, one steep climb, most of the rest downhill or flat. As usual full assist for the main hill, off the rest of the time. Here's some stats:
4.66km distance
24.1km/h average speed
39m total ascent
11:35 elapsed time
Biker power average: 190W
OFF: 155W
TURBO: 269W
Biker power max: 477W
OFF: 462W
TURBO: 477W
Motor power average: 374W
Motor power max: 733W
Total Wh biker: 25Wh
Total Wh motor: 12Wh
Will do the reverse on the way home!
Whatabboutism doesn't absolve you of the moral weight of your decisions. You do your best - if you do less, you should have a reason for it that's better than 'but mum he was doing it as well'.
Nope, almscliff is a 15 minute bike ride.
If you can't see the shades of grey nor see the value in improving yourself - I'm a bit stuck on how to relate to you, sorry. That's cool - but aren't you worried about your environmental impact?
That's awesome mate. Could you have chosen to ride a non e bike to work though? Then you'd be fitter and more able to ride an actual bike in the mountains?
Whatabboutism doesn’t absolve you of the moral weight of your decisions
I have absolutely no issue with owning an emtb but your attempt to belittle others by doing so on the back of an environmental argument, yet yourself failing to adhere to that argument you're pushing is beyond ironic and therefore makes your argument from yourself null.
Try harder.
Sorry continuity, but that last sentence comes across as incredibly condescending. Not sure you really meant that?.
I think he did. He sounds awesome on a bike
Anyone got an Orbea Keram ?
I feel like its all passing me by, with so many owning an Ebike and i still cannot decide what exactly I want - HT or suss, full on on just to get about on.
Most spec on the £3000 range is pretty rubbish(top budget is closer to £6K, but thats not the point), but I thought the keram max looked(for me) a possible. An ok fork, reasonable bits. Like the racks on the SUV option, but doesnt say if you can buy and retrofit those racks onto the MAX version.
So after all my positive comments about my borrowed rehab Turbo Levo, rolled it out this morning and the battery is stone dead, no lights, no sign of life. Replacements cost £840.
There are a whole loads of cautionary notices on the battery including 'do not get wet' and 'do not shake/vibrate'. You couldn't make it up 🙂
Just take it out anyway 🙂
Just take it out anyway 🙂
I took the cross bike out instead. My legs still work, sort of...
https://ebike-mtb.com/en/specialized-battery-recall//blockquote >
Yes, I saw that, but the serial number suggests that it's not one of the batteries affected, but thanks for the heads-up.
“ That’s awesome mate. Could you have chosen to ride a non e bike to work though? Then you’d be fitter and more able to ride an actual bike in the mountains?”
You’re even more wrong than you’re condescending. Pathetic.
What I find completely strange about the entire unfit/fit/bike/ebike argumentative nonsense is nobody whining has ever bought a bike on its ability to climb hills, most if not all are buying their non ebikes with the intention of going DOWN a hill.
Then its all the talk of forks, shocks and their tweaking, along with geometry, all in all the uphill ride characteristics hardly gets a look in 😕
Just caught up with this thread- I got the bad covid last May with a stay in ICU which left me with a heart rate of 165 just taking a dump when I eventually left hospital and reduced lung capacity due to scarring
Bought a s/h levo and it was great for getting me out when Id recovered a bit more but became too much of a lump for me -most of my riding buddies are singlespeed luddites and I ride cannock so found it hard to start getting fitness back unless on my own or with other e-bikers.
Roll on a year and I bought a levo sl and for me its great - rides much more like a normal bike but still can make me ride further and enjoy it more- I toyed with the idea of going back to a normal bike but at the moment just ride with eco set really low or even with it switched off but know I have help if i really need it- still messes with my head a bit and feel a bit of a fraud but if it gets too bad I've just built up a rigid singlespeed so I use that as payback.
I toyed with the idea of going back to a normal bike but at the moment just ride with eco set really low or even with it switched off but know I have help if i really need it- still messes with my head a bit and feel a bit of a fraud but if it gets too bad I’ve just built up a rigid singlespeed so I use that as payback.
Thst's ace, great that you're on the mend. I've been using the Levo for almost six weeks now, three or four times a week and increasingly on eco setting. Can't say enough good things about what a brilliant rehab tool it's been as well as a huge mental boost. I can't see myself owning an e-bike long term, but if I did, it would be something like a Levo SL.
I really don't understand the bickering about whether e-bikes make you fit or not. Either the people slagging them off or those claiming the contrary. I mean who cares?
You appear to have got pretty upset and nasty because your choices were questioned. Do you usually do that? Sorry - I don't see how it was condescending: it wasn't intended as such - but to question the argument that An e-mountain bike with thick tyres and suspension isn't a very efficient (or cheap) commuting machine - why did you choose to use that when you could have just used a cheap road bike?
It would certainly have given you the cash to buy both a communting bike and a mountain bike.
So confirm for me your argument is that unless you completely delete any carbon or environmental footprint to your life (i.e. essentially unless you top yourself quietly) - there's no point trying to make a difference where you can? Do you recycle? Or do you think that's for morons because they have gas fired central heating so who are they to question you?