I'm 18 months into long covid and despite feeling like I am making some progress I am still limited to max 3 hours of very easy riding, then probably at least a day off. Last year I only really did local riding but would like to get back to doing longer trips away, so an ebike will be needed.
Nobody else that I ride with has an ebike so I don't think I need the latest and greatest full power monster,and I'm about 65kgs so don't want anything too heavy. I would be looking at days of up to 40 miles (but usually mid 20s) with up to 1200m climbing. Typical trail riding, moderate tech at most.
Not sure about new vs used, obviously used would be better for the budget but I've heard way too much about motor failures so that'd be the downside.
Anyhow - Levo SL looks sensible to my untrained eye but what else should I consider?
I went through this recently and bought a Levo SL.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/bike-forum/turbo-levo-sl-2-talk-to-me/
Spoiler alert: it's excellent.
I bought a second hand levo sl gen 1 three and a half years ago for £2750 (when they were £5250 new) with a few extras. It's still going strong and I still love it.
There's a touch of roughness in the motor bearings but it's 5 years old, I'd expect it to need attention after that long. At some point I'll send it to that motor centre for an overhaul.
Battery still seems fine too. Although I have the RE and tend to ride with it most of the time. In my mind I'm splitting charge cycles over the two batteries to prolong their life. Could be bs but it helps ease my mind.
So maybe I've been lucky, but I wouldn't be too put off s/h eebs.
I'd agree the Levo SL would be a good choice, versatile, well integrated, handles well and does not have the 15mph brick wall feeling of some bikes, which I think is important when riding with normal bikes. Specialized have good warranty support and some good dealers.
I ride e bikes for health reasons and had an Sl which I liked but at 90Kg ultimately it did not have enough power on the hills. I went with a Kenevo which is a very different beast and now partner it with a Canyon Neuron on fly for tamer rides and riding with others on regular bikes.
The Canyon'sBosch SX motor a much better option for me with a much wider assist range from Eco to Turbo but as a bike the Levo SL beats it hands down. Stating the obvious demo the SL as from bitter experience chopping and changing e-bikes is a money pit...
I’ve got a Trek fuel Exe which I think would fit your brief too. Nice and light and you can dial the power right down to last longer and ride with analogue bikes.
Removable battery too so if you wanted you could always remove it and it turns into a slightly heavy normal bike rag rather than a full fat e-bike that weighs a ton
Levo sl, trek exe (about same power id say), then Bosch sx if you want a little more omph.
(think levo sl motor now supported by performance bearings so ongoing maintenance route exists for that motor making sh “safer”)
Any removable vs non removable battery implications for you
Lots of sl or lightweight emtb reviews online etc.
My Specialized Creo has a great setting for incrementing the power in 10% increments (rather than three defined low/med/high presets) - thats great for riding with others and tuning your effort to match others speeds so you dont feel like your cruising along or dropping them (I often switch the assistance off when riding alongside someone on the flat). Not sure if other brands have that option, but worth finding one with it I think.
I can do the plus/minus 10% thing on the Levo but I made it happen by accident. I'll figure out how to activate it.
I went through this recently and bought a Levo SL.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/bike-forum/turbo-levo-sl-2-talk-to-me/
Spoiler alert: it's excellent.
I friggin love mine. Its an excellent, modern, capable, adaptable, longish travel trail bike (A stumpy Evo) that happens to have a motor on it.
As opposed to a bike dominated by the 'e' aspect.
I can do the plus/minus 10% thing on the Levo but I made it happen by accident. I'll figure out how to activate it.
Long press on +
As a Spesh fanboi (have two Spesh ebikes) I'd probably go with the Levo SL Ohlins.
But for a different suggestion, Heckler SL?
They never brought out the promised range extender, but Merlin are offering a spare battery with the purchase
I've got a Heckler SL and it is perfect for what you describe. Infinity adjustable power assistance through the app. Plenty of range for up to about 35 miles of normal off-road riding. The motors do seem to be a bit unreliable but they've got great customer service that'll swap any issues out in a couple of days.
You'd need to add a range extender for 40 mile days. I can get 45km on main battery or 65km with the range extender. Though I have the heavier alloy version.
Mates got an Heckler SL and it's spent too much time back at the bike shop with various motor related issues
I have a Mondraker Neat, I’ve had some lovely normal (non e-bikes), but with or without a motor, this is the best bike ive ever ridden. My buddy has a Heckler with the Fazua motor. In the short time I’ve been on his bike, it’s also totally ace.
The bad news… within 18 months, im waiting for a warrant replacement TQ motor, and my friend has just received a replacement Fazua.
While waiting for the replacement TQ motor, I bought a Crafty with a full power Bosch CX. Honestly, I prefer my Neat with the TQ. But the extra power and range is wonderful. Different experience.
For me. If you want to ride with friends on non-e-bikes, it’s much easier on a Lightweight e-bike.
Thanks for the info so far folks - think I need to make a short list then keep an eye out for a good deal.
You won’t find any (many) second hand but I’d go for something with a TQ HPR60. The Mahle motors in Specialized SL bikes are a bit crap in comparison. The HPR60 is almost silent in use, tiny form, very light & very efficient with their power usage - it is very natural in its power delivery & even when you are over the top of the motor, or riding it off, it just feels like a normal bike.
The Yeti MTe I had (before it got nicked) was one of the best bikes I’ve ridden - not exactly a budget conscious option, but it really was very good indeed.
Any bike with the Bosch SX motor and 400Wh battery will fit your description. Super powerful motor for the weight with Bosch reliability. There were some Norco Fluid VLT's on offer for amazing prices at Winstanleys.
I still don't understand why almost everyone's default advice when it comes to lower power eBikes is always a 3yr old bike with a 5yr old motor?!?! Baffles me, especially considering just how bloody noisy the Mahle Spesh SL motors are, and that the battery is only 320Wh too... Anyway... They were first to market, granted, but even with a new frame and a software update, they are still massively out of date...
I'd suggest anything with a Bosch SX motor that suits to be honest... No direct experience of the TQ HPR60 yet (the HPR50 was very problematic, so avoid!), it does get good reviews and seems to be more reliable than the 50, but it's still relatively new. The Bosch SX is a bit more proven and it's a great motor in ride feel, and also compatible with Bosch's 250Wh Powermore range extender too, which is useful for many riders.
There are some great deals out there on some SX powered bikes right now, especially those a bit shorter travel and more trail orientated (which sounds like it might suit you OP?)...
How tall are you...? If you're XL sized, then some bargains here right now... https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/outlet-bikes/e-bikes/?prefn1=pc_familie&prefv1=Neuron%3AONfly&srule=outlet_high_stock
Alternatively, take a look at bikes like the Mondraker Sly, Whyte ELyte, Marin Rift Zone, Norco Fluid VLT etc...
The Cube AMS Hybrid One44 C:68X (Bosch SX) was one of the bikes I was considering before I changed my mind on what type of eeb I wanted, and is one you can often find heavily discounted. I reckon that would be a good bike for riding with non electric friends.
400wh, Bosch SX motor, range extender is available but not included afaik, a mate has one and loves it, should do exactly what op requires.
I ride my Orbea Rise with a mate on a SC High tower ( I think) my 540W is a good compromise, he's never going to beat me uphill but then I'm never going to beat him downhill 😔
As above, whatever takes your fancy with a Bosch SX and 400wh or 600wh battery, depending on what you mean by not too heavy. I'd also be looking at the TQ60 but reliability is unproven so difficult to recommend at the moment. Both the new Trek & Yeti with it are getting rave reviews though.
I’ve owned a level sl alloy for the last 4 years and it’s been great, no issues with the motor at all. My friends are younger and much fitter than me and lowest mode allowed me to keep up with them, the higher modes left them behind!
I fancied a change so bought the Trek above earlier this week as it looked great value. Only ridden on the street up to now and feels really good as well. Need to swap my hope brakes off the Levo before I put it up for sale.
Chris
Putting in the argument for a full power ebike here. You can tune a full fat down, you can't turn an SL up.
My gen 2 levo comes with the ability to have 3 different profiles, all of which can be customised.
You can tune it so that it'll give you just enough boost to keep up with your mates but then if your long covid takes you out mid-ride you can get a bigger helping hand to get you to the end.
Back to the SLs above, the spare battery with Merlin for the heckler sl is a bit odd, isn't the heckler's battery only removable when you drop the motor? Not something you'll do trailside...
What about a Whyte Elyte evo RS? comes in at 20kg, 400wh battery, full bosch system so can still get 100nm and 750wh but can obv ride in eco most of the time and when seriously suffering have a quick blip into turbo, can stick a range extender on it if you need 650wh for longer longer rides.
Or yeah as someone else said, consider a full fat eeb that you can tune down. If you buy the right one you should only really notice the weight when lifting it
Re: the argument for full fat
Your mates don't have them NOW - when I first got an ebike none of my riding mates had them. Now they pretty much all have them.
Your SL will be fine until they all start getting FF's
In fact I have a Gen 3 FF Levo which has been absolutely great, until... my mate has just got a Bosch powered Cube. I'm struggling to keep up with him in places (climbs) and in trying to, I'm smashing my battery way quicker than him (700Wh vs 800Wh)
Yep, you can dial a FF Levo down but if your mates are reasonably fit they will probably be riding above 15mph and e-bikes are capped at that. A spesh SL will be easier to ride off the top of the limit that a heavier Turbo Levo or full fat.
On YouTube, "Sams Bikes" is a handy channel and BS free. Maybe worth a look.
Yep, you can dial a FF Levo down but if your mates are reasonably fit they will probably be riding above 15mph and e-bikes are capped at that. A spesh SL will be easier to ride off the top of the limit that a heavier Turbo Levo or full fat.
Mine doesn't stop at 15mph.
Not a popular topic on here though....
Not a popular topic on here though....
The OP was asking about an ebike, not something converted to a speed pedelec. The cut off limit won't really affect off-road group riding anyway, especially a mixed group including people not on ebikes. Assuming the other riders actually want a group ride and will ride together. If some of them think it's a race... well, that's the same with any group of riders... encourage those people to be nice or ride solo.
Anyhow - Levo SL looks sensible to my untrained eye but what else should I consider?
Short answer the most powerful ebike you can find.
Longer answer - I assume all ebikes these days allow you to set the power your bikes deliver ie on my Orbea Rise I can tune it down 1nm of power if I want. However I still have access to 85nm
Why buy a bike and limit the power !?! You may ride a fair bit with mates who are analogue, but emtb allows you to do so much more and you will find yourself going out and riding different stuff than you would have done previously (or maybe I am just odd and like climbing up stupid steep hills 🙂 )
Ride a few and find which one you prefer the ride of, ebikes all ride very differently. due to differences in motor and battery size. For the mileage you are suggesting I would go 600wh battery or more. However, if you are plodding along with analogues you will probably get away with less and then the occasional range extender ride (which comes in pricey)
Id look at Levo SL, Amflow, Orbea Rise, Whyte as a starter (depending on your budget) I didnt like the Whyte Elyte but doesnt mean you wont.
Fair point made above about the 15.5mph limit. There are some sections of slight DH and uphill where an analogue will be quicker and you will be playing catchup 🙂
I know Giant are unpopular here but the Trance E range are fairly light weight with a full power motor and a built-in 400wh battery and it comes with a 200wh range extender to allow you to tune how much battery you take depending on the ride
“Fair point made above about the 15.5mph limit. There are some sections of slight DH and uphill where an analogue will be quicker and you will be playing catchup”
It’s not a limit, it’s when the assistance cuts out. If you’re going at over 15.5mph on any bike then if it’s flat or very slightly uphill then the rolling resistance (ie tyres) matters far more than the weight and if it’s downhill then the steeper it is the more the weight helps.
The above assumes that the motor has minimal drag when disengaged - that’s certainly the case on my Gen 2 Levo from 2018.
I think you can ride any ebike with normal bikes, just adjust the assistance as needed. I’ve been on far more rides with both e and normal bikes than ebike only rides, and the e-bikes have varied hugely but we all got along fine, even that one time when I brought a singlespeed and everyone else brought a long-travel full-fat e…
Fair point made above about the 15.5mph limit. There are some sections of slight DH and uphill where an analogue will be quicker and you will be playing catchup
A few times been out with my mate on his pedal bike and we've been chatting away blatting on a fire road, looked back and wondered where his dad was forgetting he was restricted
It’s not a limit, it’s when the assistance cuts out. If you’re going at over 15.5mph on any bike then if it’s flat or very slightly uphill then the rolling resistance (ie tyres) matters far more than the weight and if it’s downhill then the steeper it is the more the weight helps.
Yes but most sensible people ride an ebike with tyres that are more aggressive (slower) because you get the benefit without the drawbacks of drag on an eeb
However get to a slight incline or decent above 15.5mph with decent tyres and 20kg plus you suddenly realise it’s much harder than analogue
I did have a go on a Levo SL where someone put XC tyres on it, spoilt the fun completely but I guess it meant they could plod along with next to no assistance feeling awesome about how they were not using much power on the powered bike 😂
“Yes but most sensible people ride an ebike with tyres that are more aggressive (slower) because you get the benefit without the drawbacks of drag on an eeb”
I run a 29” Hillbilly T9 on the front of my Levo and my Moxie (singlespeed hardtail). They used to both run 29” Butcher T7 at the back but I got tired of messing with inserts so I got a DH casing Eliminator T7/T9 when I mulleted the Levo last summer - the hardtail still has a rear insert because I’ve got too many lighter casing 29” tyres to use up.
I’d rather have grip and control and very few punctures than have an easier time pedalling. But I also don’t want a tyre that’s so slow-rolling that it’s only fun on steep trails, plus the stickiest rear tyres wear out so fast and when it’s muddy having square edged knobs with some height matters more than having a sticky compound.
If you’re going to use your ebike as a DH bike replacement then sure, run super tacky dual plies front and back. But if you’re using it like a trail bike too then why ruin its ability to be fun when you’re not plummeting straight down? I guess that’s why people derestrict ebikes!
A Levo SL isny going to do 40 miles is it?
Get a big batteried bike and run it in low power
According to my stats I've done 30 miles on 65% of the battery and that's with my 98kg ass on it. The OP could easily manage 40 miles of trail riding.
I don't think I've ever done a 40 mile ride in my life. That's not what I bought mine for.
Try the main candidates and see what's comfortable - bike fit makes a big difference. Levo SL and Orbea Rise are ones I've tried - both solid bikes which I know would fit me well. If nobody else in the group has an e-bike, it's probably a young group - you might be the first to change to an ebike but you won't be the last. E-bikes are increasingly normal on the trails. With that in mind, a small bettery can easily be finished within half a day. If you like longer rides and some of your friends get e-bikes too, I wouldn't skimp on the battery capacity.
You might get the odd jibe, but ebikes are becoming too normal for it to really matter. You'll only piss people off if you waltz past them in Turbo mode on the climbs, if you're in the pack then it will be fine.
Pretty much every ride I do on an ebike is a mixed group ride. In that group we are 50/50 and on the ebike side I'm the only one with a 'mid power' motor (Bosch SX), everyone else is on something more powerful.
I personally wouldn't compromise on better bike handling to get more power in the same package. If I was buying now I'd be looking at anything 170/160mm travel coming in at under 21kg for a lower end model, including stuff with something less powerful (but with as much or more range) like the new TQ 60 system.
Yes, you can turn down a full power motor (and you will rarely turn it up unless you are lapping ahead) but you can't make them lighter without an expensive battery change.
To be fair, the SX is a pretty good compromise as it's actually fairly powerful at 600W peak even though it has lower torque. I can get up anything thing that isn't traction limited, which I'd probably lose with the TQ, but I'll take that.
Given your weight & ride group I think you are right to look at lighter, mid power bikes but test ride a variety as the weight gap isn't always that big, and might not impact you like you think.
@jim25 I’ve done more than 40 mile rides on mine, also done over 2000m of climbing on other rides. Used the range extender on both those fair enough, but I like the option of having it.
Its been reliable and a fun ride, and definitely a different proposition to a full fat eeb.
In the tradition of recommending what you have - I ride with my non-ebike riding friends on my Orbea Rise. I prefer riding with a lighter ebike as in terms they ride like a normal bike. Having had a ‘full fat’ ebike it was a completely different experience.