So the sram 12 speed drivetrain on the ebike is completely worn out, and im baulking at the cost of just another cassette. Im not a huge fan of the drivetrain - GX shifter and an XO1 derailleur, too many gears and requires too much constant adjustment, but its got an XD driver on the freehub - Im not adverse to going 10 speed for example if this is going to be better value long term. What are my options?
Shimano LinkGlide 100%.
I've swapped from 12sp XT with SRAM GX cassette drivetrain on my eMTB to 11sp XT Linkglide. Total cost of buying Linkglide shifter, mech, cassette and chain was less than the cost of a replacement XG-1275 GX cassette and GX chain... There's freehub cost on top of that if swapping from XD to HG - I had spare HG for my Pro4 anyway so no issue.
Riding so far on the LinkGlide: no complaints.
XD driver on the freehub
what hub is it? that will determine if there are other freehubs available for it and your cassette options.
if you can go HG, there are lots of cheaper cassettes out there, and if you are looking at 11 speed setup then second hand will be better value wise, or you go cues.
Linkglide and a couple of waxed chains on rotation for me
Shimano linkglide here. XT 11 speed set up. 2000 miles with no need to change cassette. I will say you have to be lot more careful with chain care. It will rust as soon as look at you if you don't dry it off after EVERY ride. That caught blame out. I couldn't stand seeing the chain a little bit manky and changed it out before I needed to. The following chain seems to be fine according to my chain checker tool.
All e-bikes should come with an HG freehub fitted. Preferably a steel one, or with steel reinforcement on the splines.
Linkglide is the least bad ebike drivetrain I’ve found. Mine is the 11 speed XT stuff but now with the 10 speed cassette. It has a pretty horrible life doing a daily off-road commute, so much mud and wet and no time to keep drying or cleaning the chain, so I just use lots of web lube, some GT85, and occasionally one of those chain cleaning tools with the spinny brushes.
Last week I finally had to dismantle and clean and lube the mech as the tensioning element had seized up. Other than some lube on the pivots now and then it’s been ignored for 3 years and 4000 miles.
I’ve not had any luck trying to change chains to reduce cassette wear, with the motor plus me pedalling hard the cassette wears whether the chain has “stretched” or not. I’m averaging about 1250 miles per chain & cassette. If you can keep your chain in better condition I suspect you’ll do a lot more!
Keep an eye on the freehub maintenance as well, mine just crapped itself at the top of the climb out of Watendlath and left me stranded. New set of DT swiss wheels inbound as spares not available from Orbea apparently.
Another fan of linkglide here, shifts under power no issue. Cheap enough and I think if my experiment keeps working the 10 speed deore mech works fine with the 11speed shifter and cassette.
really think this is a brilliant sleeper groupset, looks like the new micro shift mx might be in the same arena too and that has replaceable cage on the posher mech if you’re a smasher.
Keep an eye on the freehub maintenance as well, mine just crapped itself at the top of the climb out of Watendlath and left me stranded. New set of DT swiss wheels inbound as spares not available from Orbea apparently.
Is it the shitty Shimano hubs on your Orbea? The rear hub on my Rise needs constant tightening as it keeps developing side to play after every ride.
What DT wheelset did you go for?
I went all in on Cues to begin with when I replaced my GX drivetrain on the eeb. There were a lot of favourable reviews, but I found the cages just too soft for proper riding, after a few too many bent mechs I’ve found the sweet spot to be a deore linkglide 10 speed mech, on an 11 speed cues cassette, linkglide chain and xt linkglide shifter. No dramas with the deore 10 speed mech on 11 speed and the cage is a bit shorter meaning it’s less vulnerable to getting smashed. Cues shifter feels a bit cheapo but does the job if you can’t stretch to the xt.
I priced up XT Linkglide the other night. £188 if you shop around not including the aforementioned freehub.
Compared to 12sp XT, the only downside I've found with 11sp LinkGlide XT is the lack of multi-release shifting: one press of the shifter allowing a single downshift only, compared to multiple with 12sp XT. Otherwise the shifting feels as good as 12sp XT so far.
I can see why, gear dumping under load, with an extra how ever many Nm of torque added isn't going to do your chain or cassette any good!only downside I've found with 11sp LinkGlide XT is the lack of multi-release shifting: one press of the shifter allowing a single downshift only, compared to multiple with 12sp XT.
Against popular opinion, I stuck 12sp XT on my Kenevo and it's been fine
“a deore linkglide 10 speed mech”
That’s good to know!
What’s everyone’s thoughts on the reasonable lifespan of a mech that’s having a frequently wet and muddy life? As I said, I’ve just replaced the jockey wheels (bearings totally shot) and cleaned the clutch on my XT but at the price of the Deore (and with its shorter cage) that seems a sensible replacement if it works as well as the posher version.
Compared to 12sp XT, the only downside I've found with 11sp LinkGlide XT is the lack of multi-release shifting: one press of the shifter allowing a single downshift only, compared to multiple with 12sp XT.
Single cog shifting is in there for ebike use... to try and safe you from mashing the cassette.
if you have an xd driver you are limited to 12speed sram casettes unless you change the freehub.
i honestly dont understand the point of XD or Microspilne - all it does is lock you into expesive components and limits your choice as a consumer (which is exactly the point i guess!)
I`m on Microshioft Advent 10speed on my eeb. its ace. it works and its cheap.
Against popular opinion, I stuck 12sp XT on my Kenevo and it's been fine
I have a 12sp XT/SLX mix and it's fine too, it will just be more expensive to replace when it inevitably wears out quicker.
I can see why, gear dumping under load, with an extra how ever many Nm of torque added isn't going to do your chain or cassette any good!
Single cog shifting is in there for ebike use... to try and safe you from mashing the cassette.
Oh I know the reasoning and it's definitely sensible. Totally a "me" thing in how I use a 12sp shifter it seems, so I'm wrong to call it a downside.
With 12sp multi-release it seems I depress the shifter slightly for a single, first downshift. But then, rather than release my thumb from the shift lever, it appears I keep it depressed for a few seconds before depressing it further for the next downshift. I wasn't aware I was doing that until first ride with 11sp LinkGlide and wondered why it wouldn't downshift! I've been spoilt with years of multi-release 11/12sp XT/XTR shifters it seems.
XD driver on the freehub
what hub is it? that will determine if there are other freehubs available for it and your cassette options.
if you can go HG, there are lots of cheaper cassettes out there, and if you are looking at 11 speed setup then second hand will be better value wise, or you go cues.
Unbranded hubs and rims, specialized own but not advertised as Rovals. Will have to do some digging or pick up a replacement rear wheel if swapping to HG
I've been running Shimano 12spd for over 3,000 miles with no issue, XT shifter, Deore mech (with XT jockeys), SLX cassette & XTR chain.
You can pick up the Deore mech for under £50 (if patient) and then add jockeys with bearings and this removes the weak spot there. Have found that the XTR chains cost 2x the SLX, but last more than 2.5x longer if kept clean-ish & lubed. Oh and I used to wax but now only use Peatys lube
“i honestly dont understand the point of XD or Microspilne - all it does is lock you into expesive components and limits your choice as a consumer (which is exactly the point i guess!)”
Smaller smallest sprocket - you can’t go smaller than 11t on an HG driver. That was how SRAM go everyone to go 1x with the 10t to 46t(?) XX1 drivetrain. But it just seems a way to wear your cassette out even faster on an ebike!
“I`m on Microshioft Advent 10speed on my eeb. its ace. it works and its cheap.”
I tried a Microshift 11 speed cassette and it was skipping in 200 miles - couldn’t handle the road parts of the commute and full motor power plus my signature “OMFG I’m late again!” pedalling style.
The very new Microshift stuff sounds like it could be good - they’re claiming 6x the durability on the sprockets.
I’ve not had any luck trying to change chains to reduce cassette wear, with the motor plus me pedalling hard the cassette wears whether the chain has “stretched” or not.
I've been suspecting this with waxed chains, even without the electric part. The shifting performance slowly starts to drop off after a few thousand miles even though the chain still shows <0.5% stretch.
i honestly dont understand the point of XD or Microspilne - all it does is lock you into expesive components and limits your choice as a consumer (which is exactly the point i guess!)
Leaving aside the 10t sprocket, which people must like because there aren't any 11/12/13t highest gear XD or MS cassettes.
HD hubs always had that problem of cassettes digging in. Yes you could use (heavy) steel freehubs, or reinforced freehubs, etc, but those were far from universal. I think Novatec has the patent on the reinforced splines? XD solved it by locking the cassette onto a few short/chunky splines at the back and making the cassette rigid, MS solved it with more/deeper splines.
or pick up a replacement rear wheel if swapping to HG
27.5 wheels are ten a penny in less high-end bike shops spares piles these days, so many mid-range bikes get converted to hub motors.
I've been suspecting this with waxed chains, even without the electric part. The shifting performance slowly starts to drop off after a few thousand miles even though the chain still shows <0.5% stretch.
I think that is plausible. Chain wear is much reduced but cassette wear is not. Matches my experience Edit: so it tends to be a cassette for every chain not 2 or 3
No dramas with the deore 10 speed mech on 11 speed and the cage is a bit shorter
Is this with the 11-50 cassette?
Leaving aside the 10t sprocket, which people must like because there aren't any 11/12/13t highest gear XD or MS cassettes.
i honestly cant remember teh last time i used the smallest cog on my cassette. i deffo use the biggest. and maybe down to about the 3rd smallest. 4th smallest is my favoured jump cranking gear. we dont have long flat-out descents where we live though.
i think they did the 10t so they could use a tiny front chainring needed for some frame designs. also, in terms of marketing, more is bettterer right?
i found 12sp too finicky for me and my low maintenance intervals!
Leaving aside the 10t sprocket, which people must like because there aren't any 11/12/13t highest gear XD or MS cassettes.
i honestly cant remember teh last time i used the smallest cog on my cassette. i deffo use the biggest. and maybe down to about the 3rd smallest. 4th smallest is my favoured jump cranking gear. we dont have long flat-out descents where we live though.
i think they did the 10t so they could use a tiny front chainring needed for some frame designs. also, in terms of marketing, more is bettterer right?
i found 12sp too finicky for me and my low maintenance intervals!
Arguably you could go smaller at the front then and get lower gearing?
I agree though, especially at the small end it's way too picky. I swapped to a SRAM GX mech and shifter as I was swapping brakes and Shimano's horrible mess of i-spec compatibility made it easier to just swap for what was in the spares pile. And I cannot get it to stay put in the smallest sprockets, not sure if it's less tolerant of hanger alignment, worn out (only a few hundred miles, but it is pretty sloppy already) or if it's bent after being ridden in a stiff breeze. F*** I hate SRAM.
"Unbranded hubs and rims, specialized own but not advertised as Rovals. Will have to do some digging or pick up a replacement rear wheel if swapping to HG"
My LBS got me an XD freehub for my Specialized HG freehub wheels from my Levo (base model Mk 2), when I used those wheels for my new 29" hardtail. Ironically I then didn't put 12 speed on it, it ended up singlespeed, so the HG would have been better! But hopefully your hubs are the same or v similar and both are available.
Whut? Nobody makes them, that's why there aren't any.Leaving aside the 10t sprocket, which people must like because there aren't any 11/12/13t highest gear XD or MS cassettes.
Whut? Nobody makes them, that's why there aren't any.
Exactly, if people actually wanted >10t top sprockets then there would be a demand and someone would make them.
Close ratio climbing / junior cassettes still existed in the roadie world for at least 11s that stopped at a 14t top gear. So it's not like manufacturers haven't considered it.
Unless you think there is a demand for closer ratio dinner plate cassettes with limited top gears?
What cassette are people running the 10spd Deore mech with? I assume its the 5130-SG (med cage) model we are talking about?
It states a 32t capacity, but assume it can go a bit higher so 11-46 or 11-48 would be fine?
I'd quite like to just go full 10spd though. Are the CUES cassettes good, or do they suffer from similar lack of durability as the mechs stated above?
What cassette are people running the 10spd Deore mech with? I assume its the 5130-SG (med cage) model we are talking about?
It states a 32t capacity, but assume it can go a bit higher so 11-46 or 11-48 would be fine?
I'd quite like to just go full 10spd though. Are the CUES cassettes good, or do they suffer from similar lack of durability as the mechs stated above?
I think the selling point of the CUES cassette is it's durability, at the cost of weight obviously.
"It states a 32t capacity, but assume it can go a bit higher so 11-46 or 11-48 would be fine?"
I presume it's 32t (43-11) plus typical max chain growth for a full-sus? But does anyone huck to flat in their lowest gear?
The LinkGlide aka CUES cassettes are more durable - Shimano claim 3x vs HyperGlide.
Do you really need 500% range on an e-bike? (idk - genuine q)
If not .. In looking to reduce drivetrain wear rates I've gone for 11s XT Linkglide mech and shifter with a 9s Cues / LG400 11-46 cassette. Enough range with a narrower cassette overall for a slightly less strained low gears chainline. Cheap cassette but the nickel finish looks smart. The jumps on the lowest 3 gears are quite large (that gap's usually covered by 4 sprockets on 10/11s) but I expect it'll be ok.
Do you really need 500% range on an e-bike? (idk - genuine q)
depends very much how you ride it. Most of my riding is in the top half of the gear range - but steep uphills that require care I might be in the bottom gear or two. I tend to ride in higher power modes most of the time but if you ride in the lower power modes then lower gears become handy
I'm running linkglide 10speed on my ebike, I wore through a sram 12 speed t type cassette faster than my tyres.
Mechs are £25 from banana industries. If there's a discount code on ebay you can usually get a chain+10s 11-43 cassette for £50 from biketart, which is only just more than just a t type chain.
TJ, yes, I'm sure there's times when it's useful - better a wide range than a narrower one. If the OP wasn't needing the full 10-51 it just opens up lower cost options (if the freehub can be changed)
Is it the shitty Shimano hubs on your Orbea? The rear hub on my Rise needs constant tightening as it keeps developing side to play after every ride.
What DT wheelset did you go for?
Orbea confirmed it was "OEM" but nothing else except to refer me to a dealer, Tredz have now gone to ask Orbea....
Got DT-350 ratchet with EX511 rims from Bird - although assumed they were CL so now need to faff with new discs and a speed sensor magnet.
TJ, yes, I'm sure there's times when it's useful - better a wide range than a narrower one. If the OP wasn't needing the full 10-51 it just opens up lower cost options (if the freehub can be changed)
ah - misread the "you" as in general not the OP 🙂
I have 10-51t on my Kenevo and use every gear - have a 36t chainring though
10-51t on my Ragley and was 10-51 on the Stanton (now 10-45 with a different wheel). Both with 30t chainring.
I've no issue with MS, but then given the choice, I'll always have a Shimano drivetrain. Have Transmission AXS on the Levo, but that's what it came with
I put a cheap shimano 10 speed 11-42t cassette + chain on mine.
This one -> https://www.wolfcycles.co.uk/product/shimano-deore-cs-m4100-10-10-speed-11-42/
I used the existing shimano 12 speed mech (mechanically identical to 10 11 speed these days), with a 10 speed shifter. I think its done 1500 miles now.
I never clean or wax the chain, i just put a load of oil on top of the mud.
Bosch CX powered Canyon Stive on fwiw. I used to use the 51t tooth to climb up stuff, but its fine in the 42t. Only thing is you can't climb anything with motor off but its got DH tyres on anyway, I've got an XC bike for that sort of thing.
Is it the shitty Shimano hubs on your Orbea? The rear hub on my Rise needs constant tightening as it keeps developing side to play after every ride.
What DT wheelset did you go for?
Orbea confirmed it was "OEM" but nothing else except to refer me to a dealer, Tredz have now gone to ask Orbea....
Got DT-350 ratchet with EX511 rims from Bird - although assumed they were CL so now need to faff with new discs and a speed sensor magnet.
What model Orbea? My '25 Rise LT H10 has Race Face AR 30C rims on Shimano MT410-B hubs. They're the only part of the bike I don't like.
Your new wheelset sounds good! A bit of a pain about the discs. I think Jagwire do 6 bolt discs with the magnet built in.
I'm actually considering the DT Swiss H1900 wheelset to replace mine, which is their budget offering on 370 hubs (I'd upgrad the ratchet). Either that or just replace the rear with a Hope Fortus 30WPro5 E wheel.
Also, apologies for derailing the drivetrain chat!
Had a closer look at the hub / freehub last night, is labelled Roval under the mud and the freehub is labelled ratchet LN, so a rebranded DT swiss hub by the looks which is a pleasant surprise. Freehubs are freely available so thinking that linkglide is the way forward, probably 11 speed.
I never clean or wax the chain, i just put a load of oil on top of the mud.
i like the cut of your jib sir! maintenance on an eeb is overrated. so are expensive cassettes/chains.
No dramas with the deore 10 speed mech on 11 speed and the cage is a bit shorter meaning it’s less vulnerable to getting smashed. Cues shifter feels a bit cheapo but does the job if you can’t stretch to the xt.
Is that the GS cage (med cage) Deore 10spd mech? With which cassette?
“Is that the GS cage (med cage) Deore 10spd mech? With which cassette?”
It’s the LinkGlide Deore mech - I think there’s only one version. And that’ll work with any LinkGlide cassette as long as it’s not more than 10 sprockets and 43t biggest.
When my sram axs drivetrain needed replacing I got a shimane freehub so I could run a deore cassette (some steel sprockets) with whichever compatible chainring and chain I could find that was the best for price and wear. Done this with my 2 ebikes and all is good
“Is that the GS cage (med cage) Deore 10spd mech? With which cassette?”
It’s the LinkGlide Deore mech - I think there’s only one version. And that’ll work with any LinkGlide cassette as long as it’s not more than 10 sprockets and 43t biggest.
I'm interested to hear if anyone has used it with a 45+ tooth. There's usually a difference between the specified max & in-use max that people run without issues (Zee & Saint mechs for instance).