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Personal experience Kona Remote Control with Bosch motor im on 3rd motor in less than 3 years, current ( sorry) motor is just over a year old 1000 miles in im just waiting for it to go bang on previous history. Bosch have stopped offering a rolling warranty so next time i have to put my hand in my pocket 🙄
Nearly every thread on here on the subject has the same outcomes. Im thinking that the technology is still very much in its infancy and has a long way to go in terms of protecting from the mud and slop.A mate of mine with a background in electronics thinks it should be relatively easy to waterproof motor, in actual fact i think Spesh has taken that approach on the S Works. It feels like the consumer is the test bed for these companies, as someone else said if it happened as often on cars maybe something would be done about it? 🤔
Potential E Bike buyers reading these stories what do they think 🤔
This is something I think about every time I see an E-mtb. I think they are great fun, but don't own one.
I do wonder how they cope with real world UK mtb conditions and if the owners think a lot about how to make sure their investment is going to last a long time.
Will the ebike bubble burst in a few years due to this or are there plenty of examples of people using them all year round with no issues? Will watch this post with interest.
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Haven't got one either but would be interesting to see UK Vs RoW warranty return rates.
TBF I know folk with e-bikes who've had no problems at all. I guess they're just not posting about their lack of issues.
See also;
Tubeless tyre setup
Shimano brakes
Press Fit BB
Your post reflects my view as a non-owner OP.
Waiting for the tech to mature and particularly for reliability to improve.
And for my bank balance to grow.
Im thinking that the technology is still very much in its infancy and has a long way to go in terms of protecting from the mud and slop
You've answered your own question there.
Also when out & about, looking at the general state of some peoples bikes (hanging) it's no wonder they fail.
I think a chunk of people treat them with the mentality of a normal bike as well, and to me that's probably the wrong thing to do. Also it's the same old thing, we're conditioned to talk about and notice 'all' the failures - a bit like Reverbs, they all break too (apart from the hundreds of thousands that don't).
It is however, better than a 2 stroke MX bike which you can end up having to rebuild once a month...
I had a couple of issues with mine, but nothing major like a battery or motor. On to the next one now anyway & wouldn't be without it.
TBF I know folk with e-bikes who’ve had no problems at all. I guess they’re just not posting about their lack of issues
yep, this, but I still think the failure rate is way too high.
Me and a mate bought the same ebike at the same time, and we ride in the same conditions and the same amount of miles. My motor failed at 500 miles, his is still working fine.
An interesting subject. I'm following.
I've been tempted but just bought a regular MTB. But in a couple of years I'll be tempted. I tend to break things so I've been put off the ebike due to the cost and longevity
Same as chakaping
Especially the bank bit 🙂
I still think the failure rate is way too high.
How high is the failure rate?
Will caveat this by saying I know it’s not a mtb however to add to @scotroutes point we are now approaching 3500 miles on our tern GSD ebike with Bosch performance line motor and (I say this trying not to jinx us) have had no electronic issues or failures other than the power bank 300 battery not wanting to work with the factory dual battery system and the headlight switch being tempremental. In those 3500 miles there have definitely been some very wet trips.
Wonder how easy it would be for someone in the industry say Singletrack to access figures for failures? Probably commercially sensitive 🙄.
A mate of mine with a background in electronics thinks it should be relatively easy to waterproof motor,
You also have to teach people not to ride them through a bog and then blast them with a pressure washer. Putting them on a roof-rack and driving at 80 mph through torrential rain is probably going to have the same effect.
From my own viewpoint I can see the attraction in an e-bike for occasional use. It wouldn't be my only bike though. Far from it. That being the case, the expense of buying and owning one looks like poor vfm. I'd therefore prefer to rent when required - if "the industry" made this affordable. That's when the actual failure rate will become apparent - when fixes and replacements have to be factored into the rental price
Same as suspension tuning being a non LBS thing ,can we expect e bike motor repair shops?
Can't see that there's any component that some clever person can't fix.
I think the warranty coverage is ok for now, with rolling warranties, or 2 year, hopefully 3 year coverage, the reality is that the motor is just another part of the bike, it'll wear, so having to either have it serviced for a few hundred, or replaced for 800 is pretty much a risk of ownership, same as the forks on my bike costing 200 quid to service, or 1000 to replace.
Batteries are consumable though, you just have to factor in buying a new one every so often, but that's down to usage rates, i can see more ebike motor repair shops opening up, there's a place for a TF Tuned of the motor world in the near future, as well as a refurb motor seller taking over the market, i know both are done in small scale just now, but the future really is looking like this could be a good business to get into
You also have to teach people not to ride them through a bog and then blast them with a pressure washer. Putting them on a roof-rack and driving at 80 mph through torrential rain is probably going to have the same effect.
I disagree, especially if it's the MTB variety. Riding through a bog and then seeing 80mph wind and rain might be exactly the conditions it was bought for on a winter day in the hills. If they are too fragile for that, they shouldn't be sold for that purpose. I'm not saying a bike should expect to live outside permanently, but it should expect many a downpoura nd mud to the hubs without a glitch.
It is however, better than a 2 stroke MX bike which you can end up having to rebuild once a month…
Was every week when I was racing Enduros. 😮
From the state of the return pile of motors I once saw in a shop that sells a lot of Ebikes, seems there's a lot of pressure washing shit into them goes on.
On a personal level we've had four ebikes so far and only one motor fail with a snapped input shaft.
Hope that's not cursed it...
There already are several motor repair shops. Performance line Bearings is one, can’t remember the manes of any of the others.
Bosch and Brose motors are well catered for, Shimano are not.
It’s a shame the Bosch rolling warranty seems to have stopped, but the Gen 4 is significantly more reliable than the Gen 2 so I would hope it’s less of an issue.
I know a guy that must've had his bike in being repaired more than he's had it in his possession, a Specialized something or other. He still swears by them as they fix it without question. Madness lol
My boss and his wife have got a Scott and a Trek and they've never missed a beat.
Cool story eh? 😜
Other than not jet washing the motor, there’s nothing a user can do to prolong the life of it in normal use.
it should expect many a downpoura nd mud to the hubs without a glitch.
Being in the rain shouldn't be a problem. Being blasted with water and grit at high pressure is always going to be a problem for bearings and electrics. If you make seals capable of withstanding that, they will be draggy, bulky, and heavy. It's not so much the riding in mud that's the problem, it's the indiscriminate blasting with a pressure washer which will drive water and dirt through the seals.
Other than not jet washing the motor, there’s nothing a user can do to prolong the life of it in normal use.
Posted 1 minute ago
The e bike specific rock shox come with really good mudguard mounts.
I would assume a full length mudguard must help.
It is however, better than a 2 stroke MX bike which you can end up having to rebuild once a month…
Was every week when I was racing Enduros. 😮
Just for balance, and because I'm not Travis "I'm fast" James Stewart, normal folks don't need to do that. 🙂
It is however, better than a 2 stroke MX bike which you can end up having to rebuild once a month…
That's routine maintenance to help prevent failure, not a repair.
Just for balance, and because I’m not Travis “I’m fast” James Stewart, normal folks don’t need to do that. 🙂
Neither Trav or Bubba raced Enduro. 😉
Couple of half hour motos and they were sleeping in their luxury campers.
A two day Enduro gave enough hours run time to need a ring change on a 125.
Just to clarify i dont own a pressure washer wouldnt use one on my bikes even if i did. As for riding through mud etc my 2nd motor failed in my garage when the bike was clean. I checked whether i needed to charge it up or not and a fault code came up. So after the classic 3 pin reset of taking the battery out checking for damp etc all nice and dry, put battery back in switched it back on and the bike shot across the garage floor on its own and landed in a heap after crashing into one of my other bikes! 😱😱😱😱
Bosch and my LBS were understandably very concerned. Apparently 6 seperate faults on the motor which was replaced swiftly and for free. Follow up conversation with Bosch they said they investigated thoroughly and concluded that ( hopefully) it was a one off? A year on and its been ok so far. I think it must have been replaced with a 2020 version because my LBS was able to download the latest software update that gives a Tour Plus mode. Hopefully as well an improvement on the 2019 motor time will tell.
Another point is that its only really my once a week day out bike, the other 6 days are catered for under my own steam.
Neither Trav or Bubba raced Enduro. 😉
Couple of half hour motos and they were sleeping in their luxury campers.
A two day Enduro gave enough hours run time to need a ring change on a 125.
As it happens, Pastrana's done a few enduro events, and as noted above, spending half an hour on popping a fresh ring in is not a rebuild. 😉
spending half an hour on popping a fresh ring in is not a rebuild.
Yep because them clutches, powervalves and everything else look after them selves. I could have given you a list as long as my arm of stuff that needed doing weekly but didn't as quite frankly it is pretty boring even wring it down never mind doing it.
That's the great thing about MTBing. Miminum garage time compared to ride time unlike MX/Enduro.
BTW I never saw Trav at an ISDE. 😉
Yep because them clutches, powervalves and everything else look after them selves.
Every week? 🙂
BTW I never saw Trav at an ISDE. 😉
And that's what you were doing every week? 🙂 There's other enduro events. 😉
Yep every week I'd raced for engine on race bike.
Practice bike used to get less attention.
Obvs ISDE was yearly thankfully...
Expensive enough doing British Championships and a few European rounds.
I take it you've also raced at levels that require that much garage time?
As I said and back on topic.
MTB's even Ebike MTB's when compared to other stuff are pretty easy and cheap to maintain.
I take it you’ve also raced at levels that require that much garage time?
No, that's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make, people don't generally need to rebuild (or even pop a fresh ring into) a 2 stroke every week, because very, very few people will be riding that hard for that long so frequently. 🙂
As I said and back on topic.
MTB’s even Ebike MTB’s when compared to other stuff are pretty easy and cheap to maintain.
I have never pressure washed mine. The bike has only been washed once with a sponge/bucket and I kept well away from the motor. Failed after 8 months.
I don't think they're up to serious MTBing. It's the knocks and bumps that seem to knacker them. Motors on commuters and cargo bikes etc seem to last better.
I'd be happy if they just made spare parts available, not just bearings but electronics and sensors too. Shimano are particularly bad. If the torque sensor fails it's new motor time!
Even if they get more reliable there's definitely going to be *some* failures, even if only from crashes or pedal strikes.
Unlike MX, it's impossible to rebuild many ebike motors, even at service centres.
I think it must have been replaced with a 2020 version because my LBS was able to download the latest software update that gives a Tour Plus mode.
Mine has Tour+, it's rather good, my main setting.
I assume the lack of waterproofing is down to the cooling required, quite hard to achieve one without the other. I'll never powerwash mine, and the battery cover is easy to pop off and clean out the shite too.
Tour+ is bloody brilliant, way better than EMTB (which was a surprise). I was out yesterday and finished the ride with 3 bars of 5 remaining. The Kenevo with a 504 died as we got back to the cars and the Canyon, also with a 504, had 1 bar of 5 remaining. I was consistently fastest up the climbs too, so I certainly wasn't hanging about.
I was out for a wee hour-ish yesterday, 12 miles and just under 2000' of ascent and had 67% left in Tour+, and that included horsing it into turbo for the last climb as I still hadn't tried it yet! mentally fast!.
I was out yesterday and finished the ride with 3 bars of 5 remaining. The Kenevo with a 504 died as we got back to the cars and the Canyon, also with a 504, had 1 bar of 5 remaining.
Did Nick run out on the third climb? 😂
Be interested to try one with Tour+, always found EMTB was a bit much, although mine got punted on before I could try it. That said to be fair I still mostly rode it in Eco, unless I was restricted for time.
Yesterday was bonkers, rode from home to the trails, did 1400m of vert & 48k in total & still had 81% on the new Levo with the 700Wh battery on an Eco day. Going to go and try a big day out to see just how much this thing will do on one battery. I thought the Bosch was good for some big days out, but this is mad 🙂
Did Nick run out on the third climb?
Nick's off the bike at the moment; fell over riding with his kids and sprained his ankle! 😆
He's also got a cracked rib from when he OTB'd on the fire road...
did 1400m of vert & 48k in total & still had 81% on the new Levo with the 700Wh battery on an Eco day.
Ur doin' it rong 😉
Mine (E8000) has been fine. Ridden in winter too. Occasionally washed with a Hydroshot.
Only failure has been the mode switch that was kind of like a front shifter. Replaced with another one that just has some buttons. Was £30 so not too bad.
To be fair, I have wrapped a couple of old bits of tyre around it as I smacked the motor off some rocks on some steep descents. Might help.
@oldfart - Yikes
(Makes mental note to put any e-bike I might own, in future, on a workstand, before messing with batteries, etc)
He’s also got a cracked rib from when he OTB’d on the fire road
Got to watch those fire roads up here.
They're dangerous.🤣
Ur doin’ it rong 😉
Not when you are out with pedal bikes in the group too!