UPDATE: CLASSIFIEDS section refreshed, redesigned, searchable: Go take a look
So, you didn’t bother googling anything?
Why would I? Mineral oil starts to freeze at -30, water mixed with MO at around -10, rubber becomes brittle at sub zero, so yes, until the brakes are used, the calliper may be stiff, but once it's used it should be fine. I regularly commute in temperatures down to -10 with the wind chill, but the bike I'll use in the morning is kept in the house ready to go. Lots of things get stiff at sub-zero temperatures, but why is that a significant problem in the UK? How many people still commute via bike on the few days where it's minus 5?
Anyway - googling (since you insisted and couldn't be bothered to provide a link) reveals the second hit was a thread from STW in 2010, so 14 years ago. Not exactly a new problem, is it?
Talk about a mountain out of a molehill, but hey, if you want to use a bike with fiddly brakes, mixed performance in bad weather and (probably) even worse braking performance when it's freezing, because, yes, those blocks are rubber too, knock yourself out, but don't try to convince me that 3-5 days out of the year when fluid/seals may be cause slight rubbing outweighs substantial maintenance and operational benefits for the other 360days when using Hydros.
If parts do require replacing more frequently these days then surely our changing climate is a factor. I'm fairly sure it used to be summer 11 months year and you could just blow the dust off your drivetrain, now that it rains every three hours parts have more murky sludge to contend with, possibly causing them to give up sooner.
Actually, it's many threads on many sites starting from around 15 years ago. It's an ongoing issue.
I think you're just going to have to face it, hydraulic disc brakes sometimes go wrong. And when they go wrong they are going to be far more complex to fix than cables.
And on a commuter that I need everyday, I'll take ease of fixing over performance (or even reduced frequency of maintenance) anytime.
Happy enough with that or do you want to continue condemning me for heresy?
BruceWeeFull Member
Actually, it’s many threads on many sites starting from around 15 years ago. It’s an ongoing issue.
And even then, they said it was irritating, but not an issue. It's an issue if you're in arctic, but not in the UK. If you ARE in the arctic, use SRAM with Dot5 fluid and you'll have less of a problem as the fluid won't be near its freezing point. Anecdotally, I've had cables freeze in their outers where moisure has got in and we've been bivvying. Shifter cables, but still.
I think you’re just going to have to face it, hydraulic disc brakes sometimes go wrong. And when they go wrong they are going to be far more complex to fix than cables.
All brakes go wrong, but cable brakes need more TLC than hydro brakes in every circumstance. Once setup, hydro's just work. Maybe if you've got QR axles and are constantly taking the wheels out, but with TA, they're fit and forget until the pads need replacing or (in the case of Shimano) the callipers crack and leak.
And on a commuter that I need everyday, I’ll take ease of fixing over performance (or even reduced frequency of maintenance) anytime.
In 20 years of riding bikes with hydraulic disks, I can count on one hand the faults I've had and all of them have been due to a leaking Shimano calliper and even then, what I got was variable brake performance. Veriable brake performance is what i had constantly with cable brakes. Degrading cables, pad wear changing the geometry of contact, cables which need retensioned, outers which need replacing, springs which need cleaning/altering, pad contact adjusters which need winding. All gone with Hydro discs.
Happy enough with that or do you want to continue condemning me for heresy?
Heck, I'm more than happy with you quietly being a luddite, but stop telling everyone that modern bikes and hydro discs don't work because on 0.35% riding days of the year, they may rub on the discs when you start your ride. It's bad advice.
Anyway, I'm out. I'll just go and NOT have to fettle my brakes as they all just work...
I think you’re just going to have to face it, hydraulic disc brakes sometimes go wrong. And when they go wrong they are going to be far more complex to fix than cables.
All brakes go wrong, but cable brakes need more TLC than hydro brakes in every circumstance. Once setup, hydro’s just work.
Jesus, this is like stepping back 25 years when disk brakes and suspension were still new and there was genuine scepticism. Yes, if you're trekking across the Serengeti, ride a steel rigid bike with rim brakes so the local blacksmith can fix it by hand forging whatever he has to hand. Otherwise, just buy disk brakes that work when it's raining and service them once a year.
So the consensus here is that parts DO need replacing more often these days. Thanks for your replies.
I don't read that there's any sort of consensus on the thread at all. One person has suggested that tolerance may have effected durability and one person has said "it depends" a few others have suggested that 'some' bits were better back in the day.
And even then, they said it was irritating, but not an issue. It’s an issue if you’re in arctic, but not in the UK.
No, it's an issue if you live somewhere where the temperature can drop below 0 (with shimano brakes, probably not DOT fluid brakes). Mineral oil is hydrophobic so the water is going to pool. Pooled water is going to freeze and there's a good chance you are going to have problems.
And sometimes it's irritating. Others have reported having to shoulder the bike and walk the rest of the way because the wheels no longer turn.
Anyway, this is just one of the many possible things that can go wrong with hydraulic disc brakes.
Either I and all the customers who came into the workshop when I was spannering were spectacularly unlucky or you guys are spectacularly lucky with your hydraulic disc brakes.
You can put your cable brake bike away and be reasonable sure it's going to be in the same state when you take it out of the shed the next morning. Sure, cables can seize and (providing you don't have full length cables) the fix is 30 seconds and a can of WD-40 or whatever you have to hand.
With hydraulic discs you put the bike away and it could be in any state when you go to grab it the next morning. The levers could go to the bar. The levers could go nowhere near the bar and the pads could be jammed solidly against the discs. The lever could feel a bit spongy and you figure out why when you get to the first big hill that the reason is the calipers have leaked oil all over your discs. Or maybe the bite point is just wandering around and you aren't sure why. The possibilities are endless.
Fixing them starts with a bleed (not normally a job you do when you need to be at work in 15 minutes) and if that doesn't fix the problem then the fun really begins. In all my years of working on my own bike and working in the bike shop I never found a set of cable brakes that stumped me. Every single time the problem was obvious and almost always easily fixed.
I guess for IT managers it's not a big deal to get to work late (or to just not bother going in and take a work from home day so you can properly service your bike) but for many people that's just not an option.
If I have a bike that I need to work then it shouldn't have hydraulic disc brakes.
I have never, until I read this thread, come across " water pooling in Shimano hydraulic brakes. Where are we suggesting the water comes from that can pool in them??
The oil when bled on all the ones I've worked on can be discoloured but this is from seal degredation or hose degredation. Never noticed any oil floating on a pool of water 🤷🏻
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mineral-oil-in-freezing-conditions/
It doesn't really matter show water gets in (if air can get in then I'm pretty sure water can get in) but if any water does get in it's going to sink to the bottom of the system which just happens to be the caliper.
And, just to make things extra fun, if it is there it's highly unlikely that a bleed is going to get rid of it unless your brakes have got the One Way Bleed feature.
I put a recommendation in the thread for a modified gravity bleed to deal with the issue but honestly I'm coming round to the idea that mineral oil in brakes is just a bad idea.
Air doesn't just "get in" it gets in when components are replaced. It then is left there when people do shit bleeds.
Air doesn’t just “get in” it gets in when components are replaced. It then is left there when people do shit bleeds.
Ha ha. OK.
So if you buy a set of brakes and they work they will simply continue working forever so long as you don't touch them? You're saying people bleeding their brakes is causing people to have shit brakes?
Maybe you should tell shimano to just get rid of the bleed ports. No one would ever have brake problems again.
😂😂😂 what a place. Grown ups arguing about the merits of mineral oil or cable disc brakes
