Hi all, usually I'm a fair weather ride when it comes to the road bike, but want to improve my fitness over winter. So got all enthusiastic, wrapped up and literally within 3 mins of setting off this morning, pedalled from house to first corner in the road and taking a left turn at 5mph....suddenly the bike went sideways and I crashed straight down on hip/hand etc.
Nothing broken, just sore and pissed off so tramped back to the house. Went back to the scene of the crime and it was a sheet of black ice that was the cause.
So how do you cope with winter riding on roads tyre/bike wise? It is a bright sunny morning and the ground is slightly wet - should I get wider tyres with better grip (running GP4000s at 23mm, so prob only myself to blame). Maybe get a cheap cross bike if that is more stable on winter roads with knobbly tires?
Would appreciate your thoughts/tips as even when I was going slowly, I still came off! Really want to be able to keep cycling in winter but don't want to be restricted to dry days.
Thanks
Chris
You don't do it. Jump on the turbo, head off road, or get spiked tyres.
Nothing you can do to avoid it with slicks frankly.
I just don't ride on the roads if there is any chance of black ice.
There is no cure, just ride on gritted routes. Loads of folk in our local cycling club have broken their hip. I came close last winter too, then decided to give up cycling for running as I was sick of sitting in the garage all week on the turbo
In the harsh winter 5(?) years ago it was crisp, cold but dry so I hopped on the bike got 10m's from my front gate and promptly washed out sideways on black ice. I was still holding both bars when I landed sideways on my head.
Absolutely **** all you can do. What with early morning drivers driving around with a porthole to see out of, misted up windows etc ontop of the ice - why bother risking your health just to be basically, bloody-minded?
Like richardthirds said - turbo when there's ice around (esp of the black variety!)
[url= http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYSCSNST/schwalbe-snow-stud-wired-tyre ]Schwalbe Snow Stud[/url] Probably won't fit a roadie though
Other options are Schwalbe Winters and Schwalbe Marathon Winters, but again might be too big.
Knobbly tyres won't do much to stop slipping on sheet ice
I've got the Snow Studs on my Inbred 29er, only commute on it though not for clocking up serious mileage
Road bike stays in the shed if there is any danger of ice on the roads..
Turbo or MTB for me.
Ain't nothing going to stop you going down on black ice Chris.
Sounds like you were taking it easy round the corner, you were just unlucky. Be thankful that you weren't going faster.
I had my first off on black ice his time last year, unfortunately I was going downhill at the time (around 30mph), just coming round a bend when I lost the front wheel. Went down like a sack of shite and bust several ribs.
Anyhoo, don't let it put you off, just be ultra careful when cornering etc if it's a bit nippy.
You will find a lot of roadies get a mountain bike for winter riding. The cross bike idea with knobbly tyres won't help, if anything will make it worse. Unless of course you want to ride on fields, in which case that's another alternative.
If you must get on the road then just take it easy, sticking to well gritted roads and don't head out very early.
What everyone has said - stay home, turbo or off road.
Schwalbe marathon winters deployed ts morning - brilliant bit of kit. Used on a cx bike though as roadies one doesn't have clearance. They are also a bitch to fit relative to most other tyres so to save hassle I stuck on them another set of wheels - far easier.
At least with off road you wont be run over after you've fallen off as well.
You don't do it.
This! 3c and damp roads and I break out the turbo and netflix. If it's dry and really early I'll go out in lower temps and stick to more major roads if I can.
Yep - I know which roads by me are going to be gritted, so I stick to them.
we've had some tricky weather recently: warm enough to rain, cold enough to freeze.
while we wait for the weather to warm up or (more likely?) cool down, keep an eye on the weather forecast, and if it dropped to freezing overnight, then initiate planB.
(you'll need a planB)
Good shout guys, you have confirmed my inner thoughts (!)
Am a runner too so will stick with that or just do intervals etc on the 29er. Was just keen to get miles in and was hoping to not be stuck indoors, but I have to be realistic and safe.
Turbo to be added to the Xmas list !
Anyhoo, don't let it put you off, just be ultra careful when cornering etc if it's a bit nippy.
Massive disagree on that.
Yep - I know which roads by me are going to be gritted, so I stick to them.
I drove down a fairly major a-road yesterday morning, about 8:00. It had been gritted, but in two separate places water had run off the fields and frozen like a pane of glass on the road. It was quite visible, but one was coming into a slight bend, the car didn't particularly enjoy it, but it was only short and I took it slowly enough to avoid any dramas. On a bike you'd have no chance whatsoever, you'd be straight down.
Ditto, used to go 'grrr MTFU' and go out regardless but no amount of skill or bravado can help you if you hit ice on a road bike, you just go splat and the car behind you then can't stop.
Besides, when it's proper icy the trails are frozen so it's like riding hardpack again, get out on the MTB!
If neither of these are an option then get on the rollers.
Only spiked tyres grip ice. They are draggy as hell so you'd probably not enjoy it much but if local off road is limited then it could work. Car's don't tend to have spiked tyres so be very careful. In the NE it is not uncommon to see them lying in ditches on country roads at this time of year. You wouldn't want to be in the way of a car that can't stop.
You can ride through winter if you pick your days. Temperature above freezing over previous night and don't set off early.
Still it is risky and I tend not to bother.
Turbo, Mtb/cross bike off road is much better if viable.
For me the difficult area is not the obviously icy as hell morning but the borderline one where it's 4c at home but might be freezing in a couple of hollows on my minor road commute. I err on the side of caution and explain to my wife why I'm going to be in the shed for 2 hours that evening.
Went out for a ride on Saturday, group of 8 of us, we'd done about 15 miles (without any dramas other than one puncture) when suddenly, on a wide open road in complete sunlight, everbody started sliding. Black ice pretty much the whole road over! The guy in front of me went down (though fortunately I'd left a gap) and I managed to unclip and use my foot on the grass verge to stop me before I ran him over, then I turned round to see one other guy had gone down and my GF behind him too...
The 2 guys were ok, minor bruising but nothing worse. My GF had a big hole in her knee that needed attention at A&E! 🙁
Fortunately a kind motorist offered to take her to A&E, so we cut the ride short and headed back to base via the quickest route. Cue numerous slidey moments on the way back too! 😕
Picked the GF up from A&E in my car, fortunately no serious damage, but she won't be riding on the road again if there's any chance of ice!
[i]it was a sheet of black ice that was the cause[/i]
Don't turn, don't brake, don't pedal, hit it straight on and you [b]might[/b] stay upright. Apart from spiked tyres, and I'm not sure how effective they would be on black ice, there's nothing else you can do.
If there's black ice I don't ride, its just too stressful.
mboy thats the thing you just dont know do you. If its there or not until your on it. 😕
Saturday am- I set off really slowly/carefully as my area is covered in ice and is still sub zero. Just about every other car on the road is driving over the limit. On the curving dual-lane slip road off the motorway (its out of the sun/in shadow) I was undertaken at speed by a woman in a new Peugeot. Mental.
People start crashing their cars at the first sign of ice and snow so **** sharing the road with them on a bike (sadly).
(My car has AWD and 4 winter tyres on too!)
Ain't nothing going to stop you going down on black ice Chris.
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Ha! Nice one Jamie!
*sparks on the welder*
Winter. I've just swapped the Specialized 26" slicks that were on my P7 for Minions/High Rollers. On the plus side, I've more grip than I know what to do with but on the negative side my knees were killing me after fifteen miles of cycling along the Old Kent Road playing "catch the roadie".
*sparks on the welder*
This might be a better design, as you can get your knee down as well. 8)
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Schwalbe Winters are the narrowest of the spiked tyres at 30c. I use them on my winter/cross bike with mudguards. I think you would struggle to get them on a road bike unless it had big clearances.
As stated only spike tyres will give you grip on ice. They are very heavy and are noticeably slower but they will keep you upright.
Regards
Tricky one. If it's obviously icy then stay at home or go off road. But if like the last few days it's merely been a bit frosty with the odd patch of ice in the gutters I'd probably still go out. Just stick to roads you know will be gritted (A-roads mostly) and that you know well, take it easy and ride in the middle of the road as the vast majority of ice will be in the gutters. If you see anything ahead that looks remotely dodgy then unclip and get ready to bail. Some will no doubt disagree but it'd be a shame to miss those perfect winter days.
If there's any chance of ice just stay in or go and do something else instead. Just not worth risking yourself or your kit.
Shame really because I really like a nice crisp frosty road ride!
take it easy and ride in the middle of the road as the vast majority of ice will be in the gutters
If I am out and it's dubious I ride in the area that car tyres will have covered.
Yeh this morning was a bit of a surprise. I didn't ride at all last week due to snow and/or ice. Looked out this morning, no frost, wet and windy so looked fine.
No ice on the pavement but got on the cycle path and it was very, very dodgy. Had to take to the road which is fairly quiet but still had some icy patches but no black ice fortunately.
Last winter I had the same idea as OP - need to maintain fitness over winter and don't want to waste nice winter days. December 29th nice sunny day, a bit nippy but no ice around when I headed out. 45 minutes later in my Dad's car being taken to A&E after slipping on a patch of black ice - 30 minutes later diagnosed broken hip. Three days in hospital and an operation later I came home to a not very impressed wife and three concerned children ("ruined Xmas")!! Seven weeks off work, six months (so far) of private physio. I was back on bike for summer but now winter is spent either on the MTB on bike paths or on turbo - just not worth the risk if any possibility of ice.
If I am out and it's dubious I ride in the area that car tyres will have covered.
Yeah that's pretty much what I meant. Taking it easy and being alert to the danger is the key I think. The minute you're off the line that the cars take and you don't know what's ahead you're in dodgy territory. The hardest thing is descents as that's where you're likely to get water flowing down/across the road and where it's harder to go slow. Flat rides are definitely preferable.
The motorbike pics ^ Funnily enough I saw a young blonde haired girl riding a really nice 125cc with nice kit on Sat early am. I thought how long will she upright on that bike 🙁
Schwalbe Marathon Winters do work on ice.
There was a sudden freeze here last week, with no gritting. I saw people sliding all over the place in the supermarket car park, and I met another cyclist who had fallen off, but the studs kept me upright with no drama. I used to just ride cautiously, keep an eye out for ice, and hope for the best, but studded tires really are a game changer.
I'm an all year mtb commuter...
I used to use scwhalbes with studs in the winter for the ice but normally ride big apples - lots of grip and good for the potholes 🙁
Both cripple your speed but the bike tends to stay up more(ish).
(Even studs can lose it if its snow ontop of packed ice(that was a funny one.)
Used skinnies in the past but always found them usesless in anying other than ideal conditions.
Winter Ridings pretty much the pits anyway - went into a low hanging branch last week that had snapped in the storm - didn't improve looks and could have ended rather badly if i'd dropped the bike. Thing is you dont normally have your lights pointing upwadrds and i was over the front going up hill so 🙁
I came off last year on ice,result wasa broken hip at the age of 59. Went back to work still on crutches at 6 weeks as I am self employed.
Going back in hospital in Feb to have 3 pins removed so back to square one with recovery time off from work.
Three degrees or less and it,s gym, spinning and turbo.
Winter Ridings pretty much the pits anyway
Some of the best days I've ever had on a bike have been in the winter. And even if it is pitch dark, cold and drizzly, it's still miles better than cycling in a garage or gym with litres of sweat dripping off you. I'm genuinely quite shocked at the number of people saying they go on a turbo if it's 3 degrees or less.
Had some fun rides in snow and ice on the roads, but nowadays with a summer of racing ahead, family commitments, and being self employed, it's just not worth the risk. A stupid fall and a broken hip would be a bit of a disaster. If it's looking dicey I'll be on the turbo (or mtb).
Don't ride in ice or even a hard frost, I've seen a couple of life changing accidents and a few others that stung quite a lot, its not worth it.
If its a hobby/fitness do something else, if its transport get on the bus/car/train.
CX bike and something knobbly is my current choice. After a rough start it looks like the current XKings may stay on a little longer.
Previous winters have been powered by 26er mtb's and a combo of 2bliss Captain/Ground Control or OO Smorgasbords. The Spesh combo was particularly good in heavy snow and ice.
My commute keeps me away from the road as much as possible but a gated section and security guards who are scared of the cold and dark puts an entirely unnecessary section onto a choice of very busy roads this time of year...
It's like anything else in a lowgrip situation. Unless you plan to skid then keep everything smooth and easy with no sudden movements.
There is no cure, just ride on gritted routes.
I was out the other weekend. Garmin was averaging about 4.5C. The gritters are generally pretty good round our way as we see a lot of cold weather. There was still large patches of ice on the road. Huge thick bits where it hadn't yet melted from the night before. Very easy to get caught out.
Busier roads not so bad, as it's the traffic that works the grit into the ice. But even so, pick the wrong day... I managed to come off on a straight, flat stretch of road on such a day last year. Adverse camber in the road and my front wheel just washed out. (Oh, and that was on the MTB)
Unless it looks bone dry (and you can at least see the patches of ice), then it's mostly bike tracks and off road for me.
For me life's too short to stop riding when it's cold and the turbo is just too unpleasant. I was out on Saturday with my regular buddy; even at 10.00 it was still zero degrees and climbing the hill towards Chaigley (near Chipping) we both felt our back wheels spin a couple of times. On a road that's in regular use and has been gritted recently it's not too hard to spot the icy patches; on tracks and paths it's harder - I came off once on each side on black ice in two minutes last year riding the Preston Guild Wheel. Luckily no harm beyond both shifters scratched. On Saturday by midday the cloud had come over, it was warming up and gritters had been out. All you have to do is give the bike a good hot soapy wash down when you get home to remove the salt.
I really should put some knobblies on the full rigid, fit a new freehub and overhaul the brakes then do some offroad.
I did a 30 miler on Saturday, don't think it got above 0 and didn't have any issues on roads that were visibly white with light frost.
Probably got lucky but I loved the ride in those conditions, had one wobbly moment but kept her upright.
...didn't have any issues on roads that were visibly white with light frost.
Frost isn't too bad to be fair. Bit precarious on a road bike with 23mm tyres or whatever, but a CX or something would be spot on. Same with hard pack snow, which I'll often ride on slicks - so long as you're being sensible. Any chance of black ice and it just ruins the ride for me.
I was going to go on the turbo this evening, but instead jumped on my 1991 Clockwork. These days it sports Schwalbe Marathon Winters, full 'guards, and drop bars. Lovely bike.
Road bike is hanging up. Winter road bike is for 4 degrees upwards.
Like others have said it's the black ice that'll get you properly - there's enough grip if you're careful to ride on a frosty road, but if it's been raining then frozen quickly :S
My commute is all on bus routes (i.e. gritted), but there have been one or two times when I've encountered black ice patches (super sketchy) or snow with no grit on (a bit sketchy but at least you know where you are with snow!). The black ice patches I had no choice but to just let the bike go with the camber and hope I found grip soon. Luckily I did. It was on a busy road, and for some reason on the snowy day they'd gritted the road coming out of town, but not into town, for the morning rush hour!
Oh and obviously stay in the car tyre tracks, that will help, spikes help but are slow (I only have spiked MTB tyres, so very slow compared to a decent road tyre, but I use them when the alternative would be too risky/stressful).
MTB routes are generally OK even without spikes unless it's snowed, been used, thawed a bit and re-frozen, far less risky than roads, no one to run you over.
Turbos are fine, but you really won't enjoy it as much and hence you won't be as motivated.
Each to their own I guess but I rather enjoy the turbo. Admittedly it's not bike riding and is a means to an end. Hard sessions are a great challenge. Easy sessions a chance to catch up with something on the telly.
I was one of the "yeah, I'll commute in ANY weather" crew until I smashed up my collarbone after wiping out on black ice. Three months off the bike. Do not recommend :/
Flat pedals and a dropper post? I don't road bike but once it's looking sketchy out there I'll commute on the hardtail rather than my Brompton.
My experience is that an MTB style frame, bar ends, thick gloves, thick coat KEEPING HOLD OF THE BARS and bracing your shoulder for impact may just save your bones.
But, yeah, if in doubt, stay in.
YMMV.
I learnt the hard way last year. 15 miles into a ride, went over the North Downs and dropped down the other side into Bletchingly - saw a load of ice (full width of the road) and hoped for the best but wiped out completely, bending the rear hanger on my road bike. Hadn't realised that we'd been on ice for a good 200m previous to the corner but soon found out when we tried to walk back up.
Just not worth the risk. I'll be staying indoors when the temperatures are low.
I like frozen and icy, give me that any time over wet, single digit Celsius, early winter misery. Stick metal studded tyres on - Ice Spiker Pros on the mountain bike or Conto Nordic Spikes on the cross bike or Marathon Winters on the road and go ride.
Hardtails with ice tyres on rock on compacted snow on back lanes when trails are covered in fresh snow - please - and stay upright on ice, think 'riding on sand over hardpack' and stay smooth and relaxed.
To be fair I ride for fun and don't have a commute, but riding on studded ice tyres has an entertainingly surreal quality and is a bit of a revelation if you've not tried it before, albeit slow and draggy. Buy them in the summer when they're on offer or they tend to be heinously expensive. Main problem is slidy cars of doom and the condition differential in the Peak between benign valleys and deep frozen tops.
Road tyres on ice? No thanks. But riding proper studded winter tyres is like a sport in itself.
As has been previously said, not much you can do about ice on the road. I went out on the road bike on Sunday and was surprised to find some roads in the Sussex Weald to be covered in sheet ice. Pretty tricky when you've got 23mm slicks on! Just have to take it very carefully and no sudden inputs to anything.
Ice when off road on the other hand is great. had one of my best days in the Surrey Hills a few years back when the temperature never rose above -5c all afternoon. Everything was frozen solid so didn't get any mud on me whatsoever. My Camelbak froze after a while though which was annoying.
As has been previously said, not much you can do about ice on the road.
I think people are saying that studded ice tyres will cope with ice on the road, but the downside is that they're slow and noisy. They might make sense in a really brutal winter or if you live in, say, Canada or Scandinavia, but not really for occasional commission use in southern England. Or that's how I read it.
Going round a bend at even a gingerly pace on tarmac and you hit ice on any tyre- you are going down. For that reason.No ta.
When its thick with snow though- YES! Fun
As hs already been pointed out, studded tyres are fine on icy tarmac. I used them for commuting into and out of Edinburgh on a regular basis and was able to get to work even when roads were blocked. I remember ojom and I at a set of traffic lights just up from the shop one evening. The lights went to green and I just pedalled off serenely while he was getting wheelspin.
The noise and drag isn't as bad as some folk seem to imagine either.
also one of the hardcore MTFU rides who's get out I any weather, i agree that it's pretty special out there when it's chrisp and cold. however I fear I may have started to loose my mojo after a mate did his hip last year on sheet ice, it was verge to verge and we all went down. buggered his riding for the year and I doubt he'll every get back to the level he was at.
sadly I reckon I'm going to keep off the road if it gets too cold.
that's does however give me an excuse to dust of the stumpy 🙂
win/win
If theres ice I dont ride, just aint worth the recovery if you fall off and no amount of tyres/kit will save you. Besides the other road users are also dealing with the ice I just dont want to add to the risk when my journey isnt necessary and saves a visit to already over worked AE department. Think of the consequences
How much drag do these ice spike tyres cause and are do they make riding hard work? I have a 20 mile each way commute 12 miles of which is over a moor so can be very icy. Its an option I may consider if its not going to end up taking 2 hours to ride each way due to drag.
I have to disagree with studded tyres being slow. Noisy yes but not really too slow. Ok, compared to slicks they are but compared to other hybrid/commuting tyres they're really not that bad. Yes, if you drop the pressure (35 psi) to make the studs contact more then they're going to drag but you want them to drag then for the extra grip! The studs still seem to give extra grip at high pressure (50 psi)
I've got these on my rigid mtb 29er commuter - http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYSCSNST/schwalbe-snow-stud-wired-tyre
[i]Yes, if you drop the pressure (35 psi) to make the studs contact more then they're going to drag but you want them to drag then for the extra grip![/i]
Yes but if they drag to a pain in the arse level and I'm halfway through the ride wising I hadn't bothered then I'd give them a miss. I'm just concerned that they may be fine for a short scoot across town but too much like hard work for 20 miles.
But to be honest I couldn't be bothered with tyre swapping anyway when the car is on the driveway.
Yes but if they drag to a pain in the arse level and I'm halfway through the ride wising I hadn't bothered then I'll get them a miss. I'm just concerned that they may be fine for a short scoot across town but too much like hard work for 20 miles.
They weigh 1kg+, so if you're on any 'normal' road tyre they're going to feel very slow and sluggish. Personally I CBA, but there aren't many days it's [i]that [/i]bad round here.
Gary_M
I have a 20 mile each way commute 12 miles of which is over a moor
Is this all on roads, I was thinking the 'over moor' bit might be offroad? What tyres/bike do you currently use?
Yeh all road, although its a segregated cycle lane. I use a cx bike with 28mm conti 4 seasons in winter.
Gary_M, you'll have to find someone who uses Schwalbe Winter or Marathon Winter Tyres to comment on that. They do come in 30mm and 35mm respectively I think
Gary - I was just out there for a 5 mile walk back of Jackton and Auldhouse - roads are mental slippy with black ice...take it easy on way home
Thanks Iain. I rode on the road this morning as the path had a lot of icy patches, it was pretty quite so was fine. Going home last night only bit that was bad was the section just before the red house and the corner after Floak that never gets the sun and still has ice in summer 🙂
Hoping to do every day this week.
What are the Schwalbe Winter's like? I might have some coming from santa, and I'm genuinely intrigued! I run Marathon Plusses and a hub gear, so my bikes pretty porky already so I doubt I'll notice too much difference.
I run Conti Nordic Spike 240s on the cross bike and Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pros on the 29er. They make a massive difference when riding on ice, both on road and off. I've happily gone up and down munros and the Lakeland Fells when it has been icy with no problems. The only challenge is remembering that while you may have grip with the tyres, putting your foot down can be a reminder of the lack of traction!
The Contis are also excellent. The harder compound means that stud loss hasn't been an issue. While they look narrow, the level of grip is high. The extra weight isn't an issue as you won't necessarily want to go full gas on ice and will help keep you fit and riding through the winter months. 😀
I should add that the extra weight and drag are much less noticeable than you would think. I also tried a Nordic 120 tyre but the faff of deflating the tyre and reduced number of Spikes just felt like too much of a compromise. I much prefer to ride in the knowledge that my tyres will grip when I hit black ice or sheet ice. The turbo trainer is just a step too far. If it comes to that, I might as well take up bloody golf........ 😀
For me the difficult area is not the obviously icy as hell morning but the borderline one where it's 4c at home but might be freezing in a couple of hollows on my minor road commute. I err on the side of caution and explain to my wife why I'm going to be in the shed for 2 hours that evening
Well I stretched my self imposed condition limits this morning. 3c and dry roads seemed OK.
2hrs later came upon a 20m stretch of sheet ice run off from a water main leak.
Garmin maintains I went from 32mph to 0.
On the plus side was I didn't see it (dark) so was relaxed when I fell and the sheet extended long enough that my road rash was surprisingly minimal. Bike did two 360s.
A lucky escape - sort of