[Closed] Cycling Risk - Motor vs Pedal Cycles

Not a stat but a simple fact.. Before the age of twenty Id already lost half a dozen pals my age from motorcycle accidents. Yet after almost 35 years of adult cycling competative/leisure.. I've personally never known a single death (Thank god).

risk of accident?
risk of injury?
risk of serious injury?
risk of death?

as you go up the risk list ^^^^ motorbikes become massively more risky than push bikes

It's your own personal choice- i ride both, iv'e never lost a friend or anyone i know due to either. Hope it stays that way.
Riding a bike makes me smile.......... that's it really 😀

Statistically, iv'e lost more friends/ family to cancer or heart disease than cycling or motorcycling.

Life's too short- live it.

Do whatever makes you happy....

Yes, a few of my school year were killed in their teens through motorbike crashes.

At the time, I went along with the parental view of "motorbikes - terrilble things" etc.

In hindsight though, quite a few contemporaries were also killed (or killed others) behind the wheel of a car.

The adult response to those was generally - "tearway / idiot driver", rather than to blame the overly familiar, benign 4 wheeled vehicle???

risk of accident?
risk of injury?
risk of serious injury?
risk of death?

All of those things.

as you go up the risk list ^^^^ motorbikes become massively more risky than push bikes

Who says?

(ETA - not being deliberatley argumentative. Will data on the first 2 categories ^^ even be collected for cyclists???)

have to say doing the same commute on a bike and a motorbike I have more close calls on the pedal variety than on the motor bike.

Too many variables to make anything other than a passing
Comparison really, IMO.

Cyclists can be bullied more by other traffic
But they aren't as fast
Motorbikes are faster and require more skill to control as a result. Abuse that and you suffer
But a 30 mph crash on a motorbike covered in protective gear is nothing really. Do that on a pedal cycle and you're in trouble. (that said its not the fall that hurts, it's what you hit after it)

I don't ever feel vulnerable on any bike but there are roads that I won't use on a pedal cycle (dual carriageways) and to be fair drivers give motorbikes far, FAR more respect than cyclists.

Motorbikeing is an attitude thing IMO. If you're in a rush and taking chances I'll go wrong. If you sit back and wait a minute, you WILL get past at some point or the road will open up etc. 🙂

Too many variables to make anything other than a passing
Comparison really, IMO.

Which is why I question the "established wisdom"

[i]Not a stat but a simple fact.. Before the age of twenty Id already lost half a dozen pals my age from motorcycle accidents.[/i]

Where on earth did you live?

I've been riding m/c's for 30 years on the road (upwards of 20k pa), never known anyone who died from an accident.

But a 30 mph crash on a motorbike covered in protective gear is nothing really.

I friend of mine (advanced police motorcyclist working for anti terrorism) was riding to work when he crashed at 30mph and was killed. We never knew the cause the the accident (possibly an animal ran out in front of him), but he hit a concrete bollard on the pavement which killed him. He was wearing the best protective kit you could buy as well, as he did over 50k miles a year it was an investment.

In simple terms, motorcyclist make up 1% of road users by mileage covered, but 25% of fatalities and life changing injuries. No published source for this that I can find, but was quoted when doing my "biker down" course run by Kent Fire Brigade. Oh and I do ride a motorbike.

In simple terms, motorcyclist make up 1% of road users by mileage covered, but 25% of fatalities and life changing injuries

But, at the heart of my question, it is difficult to compare that to cyclists, isn't it?

As a group, what data is collected / available for cyclists?

We don't require insurance and all the associated claims / accident stats so - that dataset is not available for cyclists...

We don't register / MOT / tax / service our vehicles (at least in the same way as others) so data on number of bikes in use and mileage covered must be pretty shaky.

And minor accidents / injuries probably don't figure on anyone's records. I know I've had a few trips to A&E as a result of mtbing, but can't ever recall much discussion of how the injury was caused. Would the odd cracked finger or rib be officially recorded as a cycling related injury?? - seems unlikely

have to say doing the same commute on a bike and a motorbike I have more close calls on the pedal variety than on the motor bike.

+1

Believe it or not i find i get more respect on a motorcycle than i do on a bicycle. Still get people pulling out in front of me while looking at me from time to time.
If you expect the worst of everyone, you should be better off. Should.
Still dosen't mean you are invincible though- always have your guard up just incase 😉

We don't require insurance

We don't register / MOT / tax

Let's keep it that way!
Keep quiet and under the radar and we should be allright 😉

simonlovesrocks - Member

have to say doing the same commute on a bike and a motorbike I have more close calls on the pedal variety than on the motor bike.

Absolutely, this... Motorbike has all the advantages when it comes to traffic riding- far more presence, moving more with traffic, more visibility, more audibility, more options open in bad situations, better brakes (some folks might doubt that because of the weight difference but my bike'd stop from 20 or 30mph way faster than my road bike, the amount of traction is enormously different). Not to mention that a certain sort of driver will happily get too close to a pushbike because they don't care about the consequences, and those drivers don't want to tangle with 200kg of motorbike quite so much.

But on the other hand, when it went wrong on the motorbike, it tended to go wrong a bit harder, and that makes things a lot more complex.

as you go up the risk list ^^^^ motorbikes become massively more risky than push bikes

Who says?

common sense isn't it?
you don't need data to back up that one.

I've been riding [and racing] motorbikes since 1974 and lost many friends, no close friends racing though
I've been drivings cars since 1978 and lost 3 close friends in accidents
I've been riding bikes on the road seriously since 1995 and lost no friends

So ............. hard to get a handle on really without shit loads of data

But on the other hand, when it went wrong on the motorbike, it tended to go wrong a bit harder, and that makes things a lot more complex

bit like flying...

generally very safe but when things go wrong they go proper wrong!

have to say doing the same commute on a bike and a motorbike I have more close calls on the pedal variety than on the motor bike.

I've been a cyclist and a motorcyclist. I've given up the motorbike because the risk of really serious injury is too great. How ever careful you are there's always the chance someone will do a SMIDSY on you. And let's face it, you can have just as much fun on a mtb, it's all about being on the edge and on a bicycle that happens at much lower speeds.

I've come closer to death on a motorcycle than on any of my pushbikes. The injuries also tend to be more serious when they occur 🙁 I've got the scars 😥 😥 😥

cant see any comparison myself, two completely different vehicles. different control techniques, different speeds, different risks, different risk control measures, different laws governing.

different*

*except for number of wheels - the same, mostly.

[i]I've come closer to death on a motorcycle than on any of my pushbikes. The injuries also tend to be more serious when they occur I've got the scars 😥 [/i]

Nope, never broken a bone nor been to hospital before I started MTBing... And you get far more respect on a m/c from other drivers than on a pushbike, especially when riding big FO bikes and with an attitude that makes them think it may actually hurt them / damage their vehicle.

My guess would be far less accidents on bikes - but the consequences are worse.

Mashed an ankle and broke a collar bone at 16 on a motorbike, never an injury since in many decades and hundreds of thousands of high speed miles. Chipped my elbow on a bicycle in tens of thousands of low speed miles

Meh, it's a difficult one I guess. Death being worst case scenario is much more of an occurrence on motorbikes due to the increased speed but it comes tied with more road-respect on motorbikes than push-bikes, etc...

From the US

Risk per lifetime (US)

Risk of death during lifetime
Heart disease 1 in 5
Motor vehicle accident 1 in 84
Pedestrian accident 1 in 626
Motorcycle accident 1 in 1,020
Bicycle accident 1 in 4,919

This however does not count exposure only risk of death across the whole population so if there are 4 times as many motorcyclists in the population the risk per participant would be the same this is also why cars some so high - lots of participants

[i]Risk of death during lifetime[/i]

Is there any other time at which you are at risk of death?

could be risk of death per year

Recent IoM TT visit has sparked a debate regarding the comparative risks between various forms of two wheeled transport.

Ah ha we had a similar beer fueled debate walking back to the campsite Wednesday evening, I think the mornings conclusion was we had no idea what we were arguing about 😳

If it helps with the stats I have not yet died whilst cycling or motorcycling, however I will probably die of a heat attack whilst participating in one or the other.....

Table 26

All Figures are rates per billion miles in 2009 (have a look at the original table to see totals, and buses/HGVs).

Pedal Cycle
Accidents involving: 5,642
User casualties: 5,543
- of whom killed: 34
- seriously injured: 847
Pedestrians hit by a cycle: 95
- of whom killed: 0
- seriously injured: 21

Motorcycle
Accidents involving: 6,480
User casualties: 6,371
- of whom killed: 145
- seriously injured: 1,646
Pedestrians hit by a motorcycle: 301
- of whom killed: 2.8
- seriously injured: 56

Car
Accidents involving: 584
User casualties: 576
- of whom killed: 4.3
- seriously injured: 40
Pedestrians hit by a car: 88
- of whom killed: 1.4
- seriously injured: 18

Even more stats here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110503151558/http://dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/rrcgb2009

Per mile travelled, motorcyclists are 25 times more at risk of being killed in a road traffic accident than car users and 5 times more likely to be killed than cyclists (DfT, 2005, p27).

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/06/19112520/3

IMO it's simple physics. Bikers crash at higher speeds. The energy involved in a crash goes up by the square of the speed. So a biker crashing at 60mph has to deal with forces 9x higher than a cyclist crashing at 20mph.

I genuinley dont think either is more dangerous than the other, the common denominator is the rider; its all about attitude, as PP mentioned. The way the cycle or motorcycle is ridden play a key part. The past few motorcycle accidents amongst friends have been caued by car drivers changing position in the road without proper observation. I also think the level of minimum saftey equipment for motorcyclists should be raised; anyone caught riding in shorts and t-shirts should get a fine or something.

I do think though that both methods are alot more [b]vulnerable[/b], not just to other road users but to the amount of road furniture. Someone up there mentioned its not the fall but what you hit that hurts and I agree; I really think all unnecessary barriers etc need to go.

I also think the level of minimum saftey equipment for motorcyclists should be raised; anyone caught riding in shorts and t-shirts should get a fine or something.

I vote for dragging them along the floor as they are dressed, 10m per offence.

Although as said above the road furniture is what you hit you are more likely to be hitting it faster on a motorbike simple due to the fact it can. Much easier to be rolling along at 30 with an engine.

Not that many are cruising along on bikes above 50mph either.

as you go up the risk list ^^^^ motorbikes become massively more risky than push bikes
Who says?

common sense isn't it?
you don't need data to back up that one.

On one level, perhaps - but is it just reinforcement of a social belief / prejudice?

The trouble with the stats must be that they are based on very different data sets. Who knows how many vehicle journeys / miles by bike?

Likewise, memory / perception is flawed. As I posted above, some horrendous motorcycle deaths in my teenage peer group, but then, there were for cars as well. Just the social view on that was more ambiguous...

Per mile travelled, motorcyclists are 25 times more at risk of being killed in a road traffic accident than car users and 5 times more likely to be killed than cyclists (DfT, 2005, p27).

Using per mile is daft really, it presumes that they are being used for transport rather than leisure
I'll often go out either cycling or motorcycling for a couple of hours, I may cover 30 miles on the push bike and 120 on the motorbike

Anecdotally, working as a paramedic in a biking and motorbiking honeyspot (Lake District), I've attended very few serious push bike incidents, with most being non-life threatening (although fatalities have happened). Motorcyclists are usually spilt into 2 groups- fine or dead (or nearly). What concerns me, and what will prevent me encouraging my kids to ride motorbikes, is that the idiocy of other road users seems to have a much greater impact on the fast moving motorcyclist, whereas push bike accidents have in the main been rider error.