There are a lot more facilities that the NT event have to provide. Warmed rider well fair etc.
I'm coming round to the idea of the National Trophy race, I would be racing almost immediately after my son in the U10 race which would be fun, and the licence would be half price as it's after July (will also save me a £5 day licence for every other Scottish race I enter).
On a slightly related note, does anyone understand the kids age categories? Our son was 8 in August but depending on the race (pump track races seem different from CX) he is either categorised as 'Under 8' (pump track) or '10 and Under' for CX, despite there being an '8 and Under' category.
I've emailed both organisers and got quite confusing responses but I don't want to waste either of their time with it, just curious really..
There are two cutoff points for ages. One in Jan and the other end August/1st September ISH. CX uses the aug/sept one and MTB the Jan one. For my daughter that meant u12 CX then next MTB season she was u14 on the big bad course. Her club mate has just started u14 CX with her BD 1 day after the cut-off!
There are two cutoff points for ages. One in Jan and the other end August/1st September ISH. CX uses the aug/sept one and MTB the Jan one. For my daughter that meant u12 CX then next MTB season she was u14 on the big bad course. Her club mate has just started u14 CX with her BD 1 day after the cut-off!
I don't think this is correct anymore. I think for the 25/26 cross season BC have simplified the age categories to be simply based on year of birth.
Under 8 born in 2018 or later
Under 10 born in 2016 or 2017
Under 12 born in 2014 or 2015
Youth – born 2010 to 2013
Youth – Under 16 – born 2010 or 2011
Youth – Under 14 born 2012 or 2013
Junior – born 2008 or 2009
Under 23 – born 2004 to 2007
Senior born – 2003 or earlier
Vet 40+ born between 1976 and 1985
Vet 40 born 1981 to 1985
Vet 45 born 1976 to 1980
Veteran 50+ born 1975-1966
Vet 50 born 1971 to 1975
Vet 55 born 1966 to 1970
Vet 60 born 1965 or before
Vet 65 born 1956 to 1960
Vet 70+ born 1955 or earlier
Vet 80+ born 1945 or earlier
Not according to the technical document (found here https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cyclocross/article/bcst_rulebook_and_constitution). From that here are the age categories for CX (page 101).
First race in the NW yesterday - Leverhulme park which is fast and wide open, big turns, but some technical stuff in the woods with a biggish (for cross) loamy descent. Loads of rain and thin surface mud but course felt fast, so ran the terreno wets tubeless, no changes. Also benefit from my race being the first adult race of the day, so course is nearly as good as it can get on the day.
Some nerves on the start line with it being the season opener, like there's a possibility this could be terrible, but ended up fine - good start, went well out in the open park and ok-ish through the turns (which were easy tbh). Came 17th in the end. Worst thing by far was the run back up from the descent, just tragically bad - got passed by many men. Was lacking studs on one shoe which didn't help, but room for improvement there to put it mildly.
Next race in 7 days in Wythenshawe park Manchester, which was a fun intricate course last year.
Wessex CX round 2 yesterday at Fairthorne Manor. I was gridded well on the third row but had a horror start. Not really sure what happened but foot didn't clip in and I struggled to get moving. Lost loads of places then once I did get going there was an OTB crash right in front of me resulting in massive speed loss. At that point I got angry and hammered the next half a lap trying to recover places. Did a lot of overtaking powering up the various inclines until the slippy wooded section which is pretty much single file. Then followed a lap of many silly mistakes that cost quite a few places including my foot getting clipped from behind which undid all the work I had put in 3 corners before. Had 3 or 4 big moments where I nearly ended up on the floor before I calmed down a little. 26th at the finish, annoyingly lapped 3 corners from the end. Had the pace bar lap one for better than that and I think I could have caught the next few riders with an extra lap.
U14 girls had another good field. Daughter had a good start this week and left her target rider behind. She was strong throughout the race and was contending for 4th until that later laps. Finished 5th and on the podium which she was very happy about.
Nice work gents, helps keep the motivation high here while I wait for our first round this Sunday!
Sounds like our course (Brechin) could still be relatively fast and grassy, with a sand trap. I don't want to fork out for any more tyres if I can help it so have a choice of brand new Terreno Wets in a 33mm, or my part worn Terreno Mix in a 40mm. The latter appeals if only because I have an opportunity for a big gravel ride the following day and I would rather not be changing tyres if I can help it! For this reason will still be on gravel bike rather than CX bike I think.
I was gridded well on the third row but had a horror start. Not really sure what happened but foot didn't clip in and I struggled to get moving.
The quality of my start is probably my strongest point, if only because so many people in my field just seem too hesitant or too polite! However Cameron Mason is showing up at Brechin on Sunday and somehow I'll be in the same field despite being in the older age category, so that could be a fast start! 😆
Road TT tomorrow eve, probably a wee run on Thursday, openers on Saturday which will also serve as a wee skills refresher and a shakedown for the bike as I'm still rebuilding wheels 🙄
Being less polite/more aggressive at the start is on my list of things to work on this year. I was surprised how many I clean rode around on the straights or gained the place by stuffing it up the inside before the door was closed.
An onboard has been posted now from Sunday for a rider 2 rows behind me. Looks like I bogged down from wrong gear choice then got swamped.
Race 2 for me and my son, at Fairthorne Manor along with @nixie
I got caught on the wrong side of that OTB at the start. I am still new, and nervous ,and just let loads of people go. I find the starts very stressful tbh. A big area to work on.
But once the first lap was out of the way, I was going well. Having tons of fun overtaking people! I was a bit crap through the woods, it was very slippery, wet and rooty, but as it was single file I just tried to keep it smooth and right side up. Then on the grass I was giving it some beans. That really was a lot of fun, and near the end I thought I could maybe catch you nixie, I saw you on the other side of the tape.
Finished 28th, and happy with that!
Son completed his race without crashing, and not last, those were his two goals! He had a blast, and can't wait for next week.
You had very similar lap times apart from the start so yes you may well be coming past soon. It's the Southampton banks this weekend though the current building work means no long off camber as the fence is too close.
You don't need to worry, I'm pretty bad at handling!
I watched a video on YT from last years, that looks fun! Some tricky bits. The young lads whipped up those banks, the rest got off and ran.
Me too, I loose loads of time in the corners then pull it back under power.
The banks aren't too bad, though I get to ride them a fair bit so maybe biased. The trickiest up bank isn't on the course this year, that's the one down by the old concrete boating lake (area being used for grading soil during construction) and the tricky long off camber sadly won't be there. That is replaced by a reasonably steep down bank onto the top left cricket pitch and a slippy up. It's probably worth throwing studs in your bag if you have some as if you climb that one on foot you may need want the traction.
How were the races today?
Pretty good one here in Manchester - it rained incessantly yesterday, like all day heavy. Yet the park today you wouldn't have said was all that muddy by cross standards, didn't change bike. Twisty fun course in Wythenshawe with many tricky off-camber corners, which isn't usually my cup of tea.
But it seemed like one of those were you could ride a strong start a long way into the race - it was hard to move up. So I banked a good start and ended up battling with two guys who are usually quite a bit stronger than me, really good race. Corners were asking questions of everyone, ended up going steady in and hard out which didn't feel fast but was reliable for maintaining grip. Finished 16 out of 57 auld fellas, which is a good result for me.
Bit of a break for us now with the 3peaks and trophy race weekend after. May enter that one as it's in Derby, so not too far away.
Missing the good natured battles with the NW old guys 🙂. Boys aren't racing now, Mrs has a worn out kneecap which can't handle running and race pace, and we've moved a bit more into the hills - so hard to get motivated to drive to a city park rather than just pedal from the door. Will probably do the odd one when a favourite course comes up.
Lad is helping with 3 peaks sign on and we'll probably pop over for some MTB based supporting.
First legit race of the season for me, round 1 of the Scottish season at Brechin. Predominantly fast grassy course (I like fast grassy corners it turns out) with some fun steep banks to descend and two loose loamy walls that typically required you to jump off and run unless you got a very clean run-up and nailed the gear choice, which I only ever managed on the practice laps 🙄
Put in my usual over-enthusiastic start, moved up a few rows (starting from the back) but clearly had gone too hard as couldn't keep it up and was treated to the rapidly-becoming familiar sight of didn'thurt casually passing me once I'd had to back off slightly, not to ve seen again!
After that it was all downhill really, I really enjoy fighting for positions in the corners and playing with some 'creative' lines trying to pass folk but the legs are a long way off what's needed to make the moves stick. By halfway round I was just surviving ☹️
Early days though, I haven't even touched the turbo this year and only rebuilt the CX bike this week so lots of room for improvement!
Oh and my wife and son spent more time cheering for Cameron Mason than me I think, at least this might justify the cost of a TNT subscription for the winter months 😎. Good fun getting lapped by him. Multiple times 🙄
Well done 13thfloormonk, there wasn't much between us position wise.
I so wanted to quit a few times today and am quite proud of myself that I didn't. Once after the practice laps where I felt awful (recovering from a cold and cough), again after watching a rider going over the bars at the start (he looked like he'd seriously hurt his shoulder) and lastly at about 30 minutes of racing where I went too deep battling for position with a couple of riders, my legs felt like they were filled with cement and my lungs felt raw.
The real highlights today were:
- Catching up with folks I've not seen for a while (especially 13thfloormonk)
- Great course, and pleasant weather
- Close racing
- A brief chat with Cameron Mason, what a nice guy
- A free millionaire shortbread 🤣
Well done nixie, great finishing position.
I felt like I went backwards a bit yesterday. Legs felt flat. But, It followed a week of illness. I felt disappointed with myself, but I’m new to it and had a crap week so not going to be too hard on myself.
That stupid little bank got in my head too! It was dry so ridiculous, but it was steep enough to screw with me.
Now the thing I’m wondering. How to negotiate being in good form/fitness over winter, whilst also working in an office with minging people, lots of whom seem to always be ill! It’s fine for them, they just sit on the sofa at weekends! How to navigate this tricky one…
Thank you, very happy with that though it was so, so nearly 17th. I put in all the work over 2 laps to close the gap and got in front on the uphill towards the woods. He then managed to sit on my wheel for half a lap until the final climb past the gazebos and despite me going all in on that climb he just got far enough along side to cut in as we went around the next corner. I should have run him out to the tape on the corner before with hindsight or perhaps pushed home my speed advantage at the point I overtook. Still I had a good race, much better start and I worked hard anywhere I could get the power down. Power felt go throughout though had a breathing issue on lap 3 or 4 that thankfully cleared. Made the wrong tyre choice opting for baby limus rather than the schwable all rounds. There wasn't much in it on the grass but the baby limus was really sketchy on the gravel and felt like I was loosing time nursing them through that.
Daughter had another good race again finishing in 5th. She beat both of her targets comfortably but just got lapped by the U16 open winner a few corners from the end so officially was 1 lap down on the top 4. The next u14 girl up the road seems to have faster 1 lap pace but not such good endurance as her pace drops off in each race. My daughter tends to loose a bit on lap 1 then consistently get faster. Some points to work on there and hopefully she can close up a bit more on the front.
Now the thing I’m wondering. How to negotiate being in good form/fitness over winter, whilst also working in an office with minging people, lots of whom seem to always be ill! It’s fine for them, they just sit on the sofa at weekends! How to navigate this tricky one…
I had a good winter last winter (albeit no racing) after getting a private flu jab as soon as they became available. Will be doing same again this year.
That stupid little bank got in my head too! It was dry so ridiculous, but it was steep enough to screw with me.
That was a fun little bank, can see how it could get in your head though. My first attempt down it was interesting as I took the alternate line out the other side to the right and ended up in the massive rut!
getting a private flu jab as soon as they became available
I will also be doing this. Doesn't help with colds but I've avoided flu for the last few years.
Be good to see you Mick - appreciate it is hard to do just one or two of any race series. Woodside cycling centre out towards Keighley is on the calendar in December - not sure if it is open yet but it sounds like a dedicated CX/MTB facility, so should be a good track.Missing the good natured battles with the NW old guys 🙂. Boys aren't racing now, Mrs has a worn out kneecap which can't handle running and race pace, and we've moved a bit more into the hills - so hard to get motivated to drive to a city park rather than just pedal from the door. Will probably do the odd one when a favourite course comes up.
Lad is helping with 3 peaks sign on and we'll probably pop over for some MTB based supporting.
Mixing it up a bit this year with my lad and he's just moved up to under 12 so some very quick kids! North West league handily has a U10's cat so after a very respectable 11th in his first outing in U12s at Holmepierrepoint/NDCXL we went to Wythenshawe for rd2 of the NWCCA league as a few of you have. What a great fun looking course! Amazing it held up so well after the rain on sat. I guess the ground is still a sponge from summer. I was a bit gutted not to be racing this one 🙁
Anyway he did great and got his first ever podium - 3rd in U10 🙂 Also took fastest lap in his category but he didn't seem as impressed about that as I was!
Congrats to your son on the podium and fastest lap.
Two unrelated questions:
1) What's the ideal 'hail mary' workout if I have three weeks until my next race? Since I've done a reasonable amount of threshold recently and tonnes of sort of 'junky' Z2/Z3 miles I'm thinking I just go all in with 30/15 intervals to try and sharpen the top end a wee bit. Or do I go race specific and do some sort of over-under workouts to mimic the race duration and effort... Will only be one workout a week at the moment so I don't over do it.
2) Anyone else considering a TNT subscription just for the CX months? £31 a month for e.g. December/January seems reasonably easy to swallow, especially if I got more than just WC races. I'm too lazy/law abiding/tech-illiterate to do anything fancy with VPNs or streaming or anything like that, i just want it on my TV homescreen!
My 2 eldest are 3 races into the season ow, 1st and 2nd round of the NWCCA and 2 rounds of the Hope Supercross in Wyke.
First round of the NWCCA at Leverhulme Park didn't go too well for the eldest in U14 as he'd been ill and subsequently had the following Monday and Tuesday off school, but he rode round to take 12th. For the middle one in U12, this was his first proper 'cross race since crashing at Wythenshaw Park last year and banging his noggin - put him off for the rest of the year, he managed a very reasonable 6th place.
We did head up to the first U14 race at Wyke, but the eldest pulled out after 1.5 laps as promptly puked up a load of phlegm and subway sandwich, then slept all the way home!
Last weekend we went to Wkye for the final round of the Supercross, the middle one went first in the U12 race and had a blinder in the mud, his favourite conditions to take 2nd place. The eldest in the U14 said he was feeling about 85-90% and put in a great ride to take 5th.
The next day and in totally different conditions it was the 2nd round of the NWCAA at Wythenshaw Park, the eldest went in the U14 race and had a 2nd row gridding due to his ill fated 1st round, but got a great start only to have a crash on the off camber and got wrapped up in course tape, dropping him out of the top 10, a spirited fightback and some quality riding saw him take 4th place, which he was pretty happy with to be fair. The middle one then went in the U12 race and had an absolute blinder, even hopping the mini hurdles to take 2nd place.
Two unrelated questions:
1) What's the ideal 'hail mary' workout if I have three weeks until my next race? Since I've done a reasonable amount of threshold recently and tonnes of sort of 'junky' Z2/Z3 miles I'm thinking I just go all in with 30/15 intervals to try and sharpen the top end a wee bit. Or do I go race specific and do some sort of over-under workouts to mimic the race duration and effort... Will only be one workout a week at the moment so I don't over do it.
4 x 8 min @108 - 112%. Grind your adversaries into dust through total war of attrition.
They are good, but honestly I'd do whatever intervals I felt like I could complete well. In principle you should be able to do something like 5x5 any time, just the power will vary according to what condition you're in. In practice these are very hard and I find I need to progress into them with easier work before I'm doing them properly - ymmv. V short high power intervals are probably 'easier' to do standalone.
End of the day a cross race is 45 - 60 mins effort = ftp. It spikes up and down with the course but most of the field aren't throwing in mighty digs each lap. Building consistent hour power is really good for cross imho.
Yeah, I never managed a 4x8 all the way through, probably all the reason I need to start doing them!
Going forward I still feel I need to sprinkle in some intensity, which sort of points me back to over-unders again 🤮
All a moot point right now as I spasmed something in my hip just doing some warm-up exercises yesterday morning, par for the course for me preparing for CX season! 😂
Last time I was racing and vaguely competitive in V40, it was all based on volume with a session of intervals / Zwift crit race once a week, gave me a nice base to last the hour and pretty much the same pace and the ability to kick as required, it is however a long way back from where I am at the moment.
Just as well the kids are decent 😆
Another weekend another Wessex round, this week it was Reading (8 in row with no break is nuts, 10 if doing Clanfield Nat Trophy!). I've only raced here once before in my first ever race 2 years ago and it was as good a course as I remembered. Lots of roots and some good power sections. I was happy to find I could still clean Hilly Mc Hillface though was still slow on The Chute.
This weeks start was awful, I could not get my right foot engaged and the pedal/shoe was so slippery I was effectively 1 leg pedalling till it engaged. It's a horrible feeling as the field comes streaming past. After that it went well, I do not get why so many hug the racing line in the early corners. On the first and second hairpin I retook a significant number of places first by riding clean around the outside and second stuffing it up the inside and effectively blocking those in the queue. Then the lower wooded singletrack section with some lovely overtakes around the outside on alternate lines, almost felt like those I was passing were stood still. Had good power from the bottom on the climb through the gazebos and finish line into the top woods again finding I could ride past people up the hill. It took nearly 2 laps to get back on terms with my club mate who was gridded next to me then a further lap to get away (he is much fast of the sketchier downhills). On the my lap I clocked the leaders while down on the bottom field and put in an extra effort to exit the lower woods before them. The rider I'd been having a close tussle with wasn't so lucky and had to give way to them in a twist section. I was desperate not to get lapped and for that rider not to follow the leaders through so finished with a full gas sprint (way off the racing line to give room). Nearly made it onto the lead lap with the winner finishing 1-2 wheels ahead on the line. I think I gave him a bit of a scare and have spent a reasonable amount of time consider if it was the right thing to do! In hindsight I think I was ok as was off the side out of the way and was myself racing for position.
I do not get why so many hug the racing line in the early corners. On the first and second hairpin I retook a significant number of places first by riding clean around the outside and second stuffing it up the inside and effectively blocking those in the queue
It surprises me how slavishly people follow the racing line also, I made any number of places up in my race just by taking outside lines or slightly muddier lines than everyone else. I sometimes wonder if I'm doing something naughty or breaching some sort of etiquette but as far as I'm concerned if it's between the tapes it's fair game!
As for stuffing it up the inside, I do wonder how obligated the guys you have just passed are to let you back in to traffic but I guess if you're technically 'ahead' at the apex of the corner it's on them to avoid the collision?
I guess if you're technically 'ahead' at the apex of the corner it's on them to avoid the collision?
I've been on both sides of it and don't see it as any different to running someone out to the tape. In this case I didn't make any contact (that I remember) and made the apex before those to my right. I've also tried in the past where the corner is question resulted in a dismount and getting back into the line was difficult (and ultimately probably slower).
There is a video from the race where the guy I was gridded along side (black/blue giant) does something similar (but skids and does make contact). That clip should have started at 44 seconds but doesn't when embedded.
There is a video from the race where the guy I was gridded along side (black/blue giant) does something similar (but skids and does make contact). That clip should have started at 44 seconds but doesn't when embedded.
I'll give that guy @44s the benefit of the doubt, I think he just got a bit excited and screwed up his own corner trying to make it right. Generally though imo round the outside is fine...you're not messing with anyone who may be in front of you doing that...indeed I often go round the outside at the start for the reasons mentioned...keeps you out of trouble mainly.
In general I do have bit of a problem with dive bombers down the inside though...if you do get past someone ahead it's almost certainly because you've disrupted their line, so imo it's usually a dick move. Particularly at the start just accept that it's a procession, OK take advantage round the outside if everyone gets snarled up on the inside, but don't do the snarling, give the person in front the apex. Just pedal harder if you want to overtake.
See I'm not so sure about that. It's race after all and the track is defined by the tape not the procession. Sure no outright dangerous dick moves but if there is a gap then I think it's fair game, same as the others don't have to let you past. We teach the kids to take alternative lines and I've seen riders coached to swing the bike out when on foot around corners to make it more difficult (that was coached by an ex BC coach). I am going to have a chat with others in the club who've been around longer incase I've got the wrong idea.
Going around the outside/off line is the only way past sometimes and is completely fair game, if it’s between the tapes, it’s golden. However, if you’re gonna dive bomb, make it stick. Nothing worse than people dipping inside every corner just because and having to over take them again, or worse still, they bin it and take everyone out/run them to the outside tape.
When I used to race, in the first lap or so, I would imagine where the bottle neck or crash due to over enthusiastic ‘stuffing it up the inside’ would be and make a plan for an alternative path, in cross momentum is key imo.
I once ended up top 10 for a lap or so in a World Cup in France as there was a crash at the first big left hand corner after a long road start, Someone near the front crashed and took out half the field. I was gridded near the back, anticipated it happening and rode all the way around the outside off line to came out of the carnage in 6th! Was depressing for the rest of the day though as all the hitters battered past again. I’ve never been over taken so often!
I did a race a few years ago, wessex v50, where there were far too many entries for the opening lap to cope. Loads of us walked the first 3 bends or so. There was a guy dive-bombing even then - he was going really wide, stretching the tape, loosened a couple of stakes as he went and then trying to squeeze back in every time he came to a stake, never mind a corner.
I'm "sure" it was within the law but if that's the way he lives the rest of his life, ...
So IMO, just don't be that dick and you'll be OK
I'm "sure" it was within the law but if that's the way he lives the rest of his life, ...
So IMO, just don't be that dick and you'll be OK
My sneakiest mass overtake was at Battle of the Bing in Broxburn, there was a short section of canal tow-path leading to a set of steps which was causing a bit of a queue on the first lap due to the limited width of the tow path. In a moment of inspired madness I figured that since the undergrowth at the side of the tow-path wasn't taped off I could run through it and skip most of the queue. Morally this seemed OK as I experienced extreme lacerations and stings from the brambles and nettles for the sake of 10 places or so who probably passed me again later anyway... 🙄
I think I'm careful enough with the dive bombing, I tend to do it whilst still parallel with the other rider, rather than when they have started their turn, it becomes an exercise in late braking and having to accelerate out again rather than blocking them in any way.
Rode the V50 trophy race at Derby today - not done a national race for a while so it was good to experience, although picked a bad day to leave the skills at home. Twisty off camber course that I only got one lap practice in, dry and track looked ok after two races, thought the grip felt decent.
Gridded 64th out of 66 riders, 7th row right at the back so some work to do. Work was done, as the start was a big L-shape with two straights, so passed 25 blokes. That was about the only good thing that happened - first two laps or so were ok but it had started to rain pretty solid and the corners were slippy as the course got cut up. Tyres a bit too hard but mainly I began to suck beyond reason, properly crashed three times, ejected outwith the tape, numerous foot down rescues and just not riding well. Came in 50th in my cat by the end.
Bit of a poor effort as it wasn't some technical beast of a track, more just bread and butter cross cornering / off-camber in the wet, albeit a lot of it on a pretty long lap. Wasn't even massively tired afterwards, as I couldn't lay down the power I wanted. But I guess that is the point - the harder track separates those who can from those who struggle to carry speed through the corners. Thinking of trying round 2 in Falkirk, to see if I can rectify things (although I hear that is a challenging course itself).
Nice one Garry_lager, am re-assured you got some racing in at least!
I expect to be gridded right at the back at Falkirk, have had very little skills practice and have only just started hitting the trainer for the season, am hoping this isn't a bad idea 😂
Falkirk is a beautiful course, I think there are a couple of steep walls and I remember a lovely off-camber bend wrapping around a hill, I hit the deck every second lap 😖
Falkirk is a sickening great idea! Honestly course looks hard AF from this preview last year, but a great challenge. It's a bit of a project for me to get up, so going to see if I can arrange it.Nice one Garry_lager, am re-assured you got some racing in at least!
I expect to be gridded right at the back at Falkirk, have had very little skills practice and have only just started hitting the trainer for the season, am hoping this isn't a bad idea 😂
Falkirk is a beautiful course, I think there are a couple of steep walls and I remember a lovely off-camber bend wrapping around a hill, I hit the deck every second lap 😖
Oh bloody hell, that's not the course I remember 😂
Endless steep walls, that's exactly what killed my legs at Brechin, this could be a humbling one 😬.
Is anyone running inserts in their tyres? Wasn't sure if it was a thing in CX or not but given my weight it would be nice to be able to run less than 40 psi in the tyres without fear of flatting or rim damage... Pretty sure the extra grip would make up for the extra ~50g per wheel.
Yes, I'm running challenge handmade tubeless baby limus or limus with tubolight inserts. Main reason was to help protect the carbon rims. At 77kg I can run down towards 20 psi. Normally pump to 24/25 rear (front -2psi) and adjust from there based on feel/root count.
