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Trying to tell if this is just me being really awkward here, but I'm weirdly thrown by the attitude of Giant on a new bike purchase/warranty claim.
Bought a 2023 Propel 3 months ago, to replace an old one. Poor weather meant it didn't get out much, it's covered 250 miles at this point. Seatpost torqued up with a torque wrench once when built up. While cleaning I spotted this:
I spoke to the local Giant shop, they initially told me to bring in my own torque wrench, which seemed a bit weirdly defensive, I did, it was fine. They said it looked cosmetic, so would likely be rejected but I could go ahead and try and warranty it anyway.
I pushed and they went for it. Today I got word through that this was declined as it was "most likely" a cosmetic paint crack. 3 month old frame, bought brand new from the Giant website, only a handful of rides. Even if it is paint, Giant warranty supposedly cover paint for the first year.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/warranty
Am I being really awkward pushing this? I'm just aware the bike now has next to no resale value as it's got a crack. The bike it replaced was a 2017 Propel... which is fine! I'm just blown away that they'll openly show off about their paint warranty but then fight it if anyone claims. The 2023 Revolts has a similar issue with cosmetic cracks and these were replaced.
Hobnob, anyone?
more seriously, I reckon your statutory rights have you covered here, they have to prove it isn’t faulty at this stage.
Giant have priors for very iffy warranty handling
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/warranty-denied-as-i-stripped-the-bike-down/
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wwstd-giant-warranty-content-ebike/
I'd make a fairly significant fuss, whilst repeatedly showing them their own warranty document
I’d want that replaced, end of.
they’ve got a poor reputation on this.
Under six months old, ignore warranty. Repair or replace direct with Giant under Consumer Rights Act 2015 as they’re who you bought it from. Whether it’s cosmetic or not, paint shouldn’t crack like that and without actually examining it, they don’t know if it’s a crack in the frame. Fails both “fit for purpose” as paint shouldn’t crack after three months, and “satisfactory quality” as paint shouldn’t crack after three months.
Can I suggest you try to get the " it's just the paint" reply in writing ( if you haven't already) as I bet they will probably go for " yeah it's broke because you overtightened it" line,which will be harder to fight
Love you guys, this stuff is gold 🙂 To battle!
If they're being a pain in the arse, which let's face it, they have form for, I' be going to your credit card company if you paid that way and getting them to take it up for you.
Can I suggest you try to get the ” it’s just the paint” reply in writing ( if you haven’t already) as I bet they will probably go for ” yeah it’s broke because you overtightened it” line,which will be harder to fight
I think I'm good on that one, as mentioned the shop asked me to bring my torque wrench in. It seemed almost a bit rude, we've used them for years. Regardless, I went along with it, it was tested and came back almost being bang on. The emails they've given back have stated they believe it to be a paint crack, so it should be an easy battle.
I've told him to ditch the warranty and go with refund/replace!
The shop are right. It's not a warranty issue. It's a statutory consumer rights issue. 🙂
What the hell is wrong with Giant and its retail network?
"So what is your level of confidence that this crack is purely cosmetic? Can you provide assurances this won't fail catastrophically?"
In fairness (and bear in mind IANAEngineer and have only seen your pic), I think it probably is a cosmetic crack in the lacquer. If it was out of warranty I wouldn't be worrying and I'd happily ride it. But as you say, it's a defect and it ruins the resale value. I'm about to buy a Giant (Defy Advance 0), will watch this thread closely for Giant's response before pressing the button.
I’m weirdly thrown by the attitude of Giant
Really.
You do surprise.
Perhaps we should have a sticky for Giant warranty issues...
I for one decided never to buy another Giant or Giant associated product again after their previous extremely poor showing on here. This kind of nonsense further cements that as being the correct decision. Muppets. 🙄
I’m about to buy a Giant (Defy Advance 0), will watch this thread closely for Giant’s response before pressing the button.
I'd read the other Giant warranty threads linked to above and reassess right now if I were you...
Really.
You do surprise.
In t'husband's defence, Giant were actually really reasonable with me when I had my Liv Intrigue E die on its arse due water ingress - it was Rutland Cycles that were being an absolute arse in that case (think there's a thread on here to add to the collection!) - I had to get my bank to do a charge back which thry authorised, at which point Rutland suddenly did a 180 and agreed to a refund. Giant were a bit surprised that Rutland were being so awkward, and when I bought my replacement from an official Giant dealer they waterproofed the internals for free, heh.
Does seem a bit crap though that we've had 30 odd bikes between us over the years, and only three have had issues - one was an older second hand Ibis that needed a new rear triangle, my 3 month old Liv (water ingress) and t'husband's 3 month old Propel.
Bizarrely the Ibis got sorted smoothly, despite being the second owner and having to go over to America.
Still love my (third*) Liv though - this one has managed nearly 900 miles so far so I'm cautiously optimistic! I absolutely love how it rides, but I'm not sure I'd get another one though, but at the time it was the best option for me (I'm a short arse, so options are a little more limited).
* First died due to water ingress, second was stolen, third is so far, so good...
Things like this are one of the reasons I don’t buy bikes from Giant anymore.
Things like this are one of the reasons I don’t buy bikes from Giant anymore.
After the last thread a lot of us said we wouldn't buy new from giant ever again. The whole point of paying extra for a new bike is the back up of a warranty but if they won't pay out, what's the point.
Singletrack did a really good article asking brands what their policy was with warranties.
I'd be kicking off, I'd want it in writing it's not structural, maybe an xray? Then that means it's a paint defect that should be covered in tge first 12 months so I'd want it repairing.
They are just seeing if you will give up and p1ss off.
I think it was the last 'Giant refusing to honour a warranty' thread on here that ensured the two e-bikes we bought for the grandparents weren't from Giant.
I’m weirdly thrown by the attitude of Giant
Really.
You do surprise.
I'd be more surprise if they didn't try to wriggle out of it.
Rutland Cycles
Ah yes. The people who lied about my brakes being with Madison/Shimano. Someone from Madison/Shimano and was clear my brakes had not been posted in by Rutland in a month....I called Rutland and was told more lies. And so eventually I went for a chargeback - and two days later Rutland posted me a brand new set of brakes.
A company with a corporate culture of lying and cover up.
After all the Giant shenanigans and dodging on warranties revealed last year, I'd not touch one with a barge pole.
Wait til the rim fails and they blame you and reject the warranty for not getting a Giant-authorised dealer to fix the puncture you had when 50miles from home on a Sunday.
The bizarre thing is that OP is clearly a loyal customer and brand supporter. Screwing those over - or even implying they've made a mistake with the 'bring us your torque wrench' stuff - makes no commercial sense,
I’m weirdly thrown by the attitude of Giant
I'm weirdly thrown by how small they look up close. V.dissapointed.
Perhaps we should have a sticky for Giant warranty issues…
And call it Giant Cracks?
As above. First six months, it's the shops problem not yours really....
Nope, you're not being awkward. It's Giant who're failing life rule #1.
Things like this are one of the reasons I don’t buy bikes from Giant anymore.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
What's it look like when you remove the bolt and (if it comes away) the plate with the etched torque details on?
The last time Giant's warranty (or lack of it) came up on here I pretty much decided never to buy one. This has done nothing to suggest that I should change my mind about it
I have recently bought a Giant Revolt X, a 2024 one. There is a lot of chat on the Giant Revolt FB page around the well documented seat tube cracking issues on the MY22 ones, and encouragingly, the overwhelming tone is that Giant replace the frames on these when/if cracks appear, pretty much as routine.
They pretty much admitted that there was not enough carbon in the layup in that area, and amended the design and construction from MY23 onwards.
Just a bit of balance to the discussions.
Gulp…… my new Giant Revolt is on the workstand in the garage waiting for me to Invisiframe it.
I’ll make sure the torque wrench is used at all times, yikes.
It does look cosmetic though. I would expect a much better level of customer support on a new bike.
For balance my TCR road bike is a lovely bike and has been faultless over the last four years. Only issues I’ve had is replacing the Di2 battery and a freehub failing (it had quite a few miles on it). The paintwork does seem easy to mark though, wish I’d invisiframed it when new.
For balance my TCR road bike is a lovely bike and has been faultless over the last four years.
Balance would be saying that your TCR had a warranty issue that was quickly resolved (my TCR is now 7 and no reason to expect it not to do another 7 years). The issue isn't that Giant have particular quality issues (perhaps ignoring the ebikes), rather that they are behaving like utter shits if you do have a problem
Oh indeed, my other Propel is 7 years old and is now getting regular use, I'd not buy another though after this though. My eyes are set on a Supersix next I think, I hadn't realised they'd swapped back to BSA bottom brackets!
My eyes are set on a Supersix next I think
You won't be disappointed, very happy with mine.
My eyes are set on a Supersix next I think
You won’t be disappointed, very happy with mine.
Have the sorted the really noisy creaking seat post issue? My early 2020 one was so bad it went back after 2 weeks and I bought a tarmac. The advice from Cannondale was to torque the seat clamp bolt to 8-9Nm when it only had 5 (irc) written on it.
And call it Giant Cracks?
*S*****.
I also would not touch a new Giant after the documented problems.
Interesting. I ordered a (then) new 2018 Propel from Rutland Cycles back then. They got in touch during assembly and showed me a picture of the exact same crack in that location. Very much just a paint crack but I wasn't particularly keen on it. They said it wouldn't be liable for a replacement / swap through Giant (was the last of my frame size in stock, unless they went up a model series), but they offered me a £50 gift card at most, or I could cancel the order.
I went for the gift card and it didn't get any worse but it did leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth about Giant.
Just for balance, Giant replaced my 2017 TCR frame under warranty last September as the chain stay had cracked. Went through bike shop where i purchased it and had a replacement frame within 3 days. Retailer stripped and then rebuilt bike all within a week..... at no cost to me. Fantastic service and warranty process on a bike that was nearly 7 years old.
Have the sorted the really noisy creaking seat post issue? My early 2020 one was so bad it went back after 2 weeks and I bought a tarmac. The advice from Cannondale was to torque the seat clamp bolt to 8-9Nm when it only had 5 (irc) written on It
I’ve got the current generation model, no creaking on it (though the mechanic at Sigma did show me a tip to make sure the post is tightened correctly in the frame relevant for any aero / wedge fixing tyre post).
Good to hear, I got mine when this style of super six first came out (think it was one of the first 105 versions to arrive) and it spent time back in the shop being looked at as well as "someone from Cannondale" coming to take a peek as well. A shop ride, coincidentally with Sigma - not where the bike came from, was the final straw as people (including the shop mechanic) kept asking me what wasaking the horrible noise. I was given the option to return it and ended up spending my money on a Tarmac from sigma in the end. I did like the Super six though, just a shame it sounded like it was going to snap all the time
Things like this are one of the reasons...
Why two of my Giants (Defy and Propel Advanced SL's) have integrated seat posts. My other Propel (Advanced) has a different rear mounted clamping system rather than front. I'd be dissappointed with that crack, and based on the one year paint, proceed with the claim.
I had similar beef with Canyon over a cracked chainstay. Their initial response was "Well you've been riding it!"
A few back and forth emails were exchanged and I'd say just don't give up. Tell them you know it's covered under warranty and you'll take it to trading standards of they refuse to honour it.
>though the mechanic at Sigma did show me a tip
Do tell...
🙂
On the a SuperSix Evo seatpost - was the trick tighten the first 3 to 4 nm pushing seatpost towards rear of bike, then pull it forward for the final tightening? Worked for me.
Tell them you know it’s covered under warranty
Under statutory rights.
They have no control over that, but they do over warranty.