[Closed] Cairngorms Loop 300 Group Start

This looks amazing, if it wasn't so far away (and I was a bit fitter) I would sign up!

It's a tough, but very achievable, challenge. I'm 61 and not the fittest by any means and finished last year thinking I could have made it round quicker if I'd really tried (and not stopped for as long). Of course, it doesn't have to be purgatory and the option of rest stops and just enjoying the experience is just as/even more valid than treating it as a race. It's certainly a good introduction to tougher events like the HT550.

Looks like we have nine starters already. I'll probably bump this thread a couple of times to see if it will persuade any other forumites to give it a go.

By way of a bump and out of curiosity...

I had an adapted and extended 'gravel' version of the outer loop that I was going to ride in September, but with wimpy accommodation stops en route.

What time would the group depart on the 12th?

Would it ruin the ethos of the thing if I was to attempt to ride along with folk through the Gaick pass and potentially again south of Tomintoul?

I just like the idea of being out with other folk on the trails but don't want to spoil it for other riders by being that annoying guy with fresh legs who's had a nice kip in a hotel and isn't playing by ITT rules... 😀

Group Start is 10am.

There's nothing to stop you being there at that time. The trails are just the normal public routes.

Personally, I would feel very out of place being there and riding but not actually being part of the event. Remember it's not like it'll be one group of riders going round together. It will split up very quickly, even before Gaick. By Tomintoul I'd be surprised to see any more than two riders together, and even that will be the exception. Of course, folk will have other opinions but by then, I was just focused on the next bit of trail and working out if I'd get to the end. I really don't see these as a social activity 😊

FWIW I might turn up at a couple of points just to see if I can get some photos of folk on the route.

We're about half full now in terms of the Group Start numbers.

10am start.

Not really, it's very low key plus you are riding along one of the main Lejog routes until you cross the A9 and head towards the Gaick so there's other riders around anyway.

It's not as if there's masses of riders or even walkers around anyway - a couple of years ago I didn't see anyone from Gaick Lodge until Commando Bridge then I rode with an Aberdonian from Ryvoan as far as the Lairig an Laoigh and after that I didn't see anyone else on the trails until just before Braemar!

Personally, I would feel very out of place being there and riding but not actually being part of the event.

Yeah I was thinking that, would I just end up feeling like some sort of wannabe or hanger-on!

Will leave it, would be weird, constant stream of well rested chatter on day 2 probably wouldn't be welcomed by others either! 😀

i did the september group start in 2018 .

i say group .... it was me and my mate.

We rode to linn of dee and he packed in having done an iron man 2 weeks previous.

Didnt see anyone again till Fealar lodge when i saw Crispins rear wheel go round the corner on the far side as i fought up the steep banking.

Oh first (notified) completion of 2020 is in the bag. Well done to Jim Higgins of Inverness who got round in an amazing 27h 48m on 11th July.

As Colin says, things split up very quickly: someone on a 30hr schedule is averaging 1km/hr faster than someone on a 33hr schedule so will already be over 1km ahead by the time you get to cross the A9 and head towards Gaick. Unless someone has a mechanical or just has a sit down for a breather then you are pretty much on your own. In fact the RH photo of the Fords of Avon on this page https://www.cairngormsloop.net/planning is mine. It's Ian Fitz who'd had a mechanical at Gaick and it took him five hours to catch us up. I'm just hoping it's not as wet this time.

The group start is only a group for as long as you can keep up with the fast 'uns before realising you are going to blow up!

Re: Jim Higgins. By my calcs looking through the finishing times that's only the 8th sub 30hr completion. Well done to him.

Edit - Colin, has the Red House renovation been completed yet?

Edit – Colin, has the Red House renovation been completed yet?

Not as of two weeks ago. They have made a start, but just a bit of infill on the floor.
There was no door on it, so could be accessed and used as a shelter.

I've signed up for this after a few years of wanting to do it but for different reasons (or excuses 😬) have not being able to be part of it.

My fitness and weight is in a decent place despite - or even because of - Covid-19.

I'm just looking to complete the route within the time limit, I want to enjoy at as much as I can rather than really beat myself up.

I'm quite excited 😁

13thfloormonk, you're more than welcome to ride along with myself as long as you're willing to suffer my slow pace. 😭

Could anyone tell/ scare me how many metres of climbing this route involves?

Cheers.

Only 5,000 metres.

In the main, the route follows excellent Rights of Way through the glens of the Cairngorms rather than over the summits.

^^ Cheers matey.

Though I have to say the word "only" didn't enter my head as I read the 5,000m bit.😳

13thfloormonk, you’re more than welcome to ride along with myself

I checked, am definitely there the weekend before. Will tag a few bothies as I pass, look out for the '13thfm woz ere' spray paint

as long as you’re willing to suffer my slow pace

Yeah, I'm not falling for that one!

13thfloormonk, I don't know what you can possibly mean. 😜

Is it 5000m Colin? I'm assuming that's data from your completion. Selfsupported.net and the CL site have 4000m. Three years ago I got 3100m but I didn't do the Fealar loop as my front brake was toast so just coasted down Glen Tilt. Bikepacking.com has 3400m using basically what I did.

Shall look out for our very own Banksey's tags 😊

Bob, I made it just under 4,000m, that "feels" right and agrees with the published figures but I had a look at a couple of recent completions and they had nearer 5,000 😳

Oh, just to add, had 3 recent completions notified. Two at 31h 9m and one at 52h 52m. The latter included a few words about the Fealar Lodge section 😊

@poopscoop

Thats just 5 Alpes innit

Albeit not on virtually smooth tarmac, and with headwinds, and drivetrain munching grit.

The latter included a few words about the Fealar Lodge section

Any write ups anywhere? That section has been on my bucket list for years so 99% committed but will be chasing trains by that point so useful to know how much time to allow! Looks like at worst 2-3km of pushing?

I did it on the Beinn a Ghlo circuit many years ago. The initial 100-200 metres after you cross the river is very steep but soon over. I don't remember the wooded area that's now on the map but it might be new. A mixture of riding and short sections of pushing from memory. Certainly once you could see Fealar Lodge you could ride it all.

The Beinn a Ghlo circuit is in the Vertebrate guide book which notes that the track to Fealar Lodge can be soft and heavy going after rain.

maybe worth checking things out on geograph.org:

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/913712
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/861793
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1121156
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1121162
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/913715

worst 2-3km of pushing?

2-3 km vertical gain perhaps 😀 Its not to be underestimated it really is borderline unwalkable tussocky pathless carry/slog to the lodge

Then once you get down the valley and turn at the house and go up the other leg before peeling over the shoulder to ride across the front of beinn a ghlo is another hard slog - looked like it was perma wet trail.

If you are not doing the CG loop - id ride down glen tilt - itll be much more enjoyable - the ride out from fealar lodge is nothing special , Crossing the watershed on the other hand is worth while.

Both my garmins recorded C~3700m

Certainly once you could see Fealar Lodge you could ride it all.

that was my memory from 15 years ago .... but alas in 2018 this was not the case and was mildly disheartening when i got there.

it was a push right to the lodge - id like to say that was because my legs were utterly shafted but it was just tussocky and wheel sucking.

Here's a blog post from Craig Thompson who did in 2017 - http://highlanddrifter.com/2017/09

Thanks Whitestone, had perused Geograph, but have been fooled before!

If you are not doing the CG loop

I'm not, I'm just using this thread because all the experts are in one place!

On one hand - I've seen Glen Tilt, and really fancy riding the length of Glen Fearnach to Straloch.

On the other hand - I might not have the time for 3km of tussocky bog hopping between Glen Tilt and Fealar Lodge and have been well warned by Didn'tHurt about the constant headwind blowing up Glen Fearnach!

Will give myself a cut-off time and assume a 1hr push for that section, if I have the time I'll commit.

Will leave this thread for the proper Loopers now! 😀

The most frustrating thing about the Fealar Lodge section is being able to see the good track but having to detour to the lodge in order to get to it.

The descent down to Daldhu was one of my favourite bits last September. After the frustration of Tilt and Fealar it felt glorious to be making same fast progress.

I'd rather ride down the glen than push up to the Fealar Lodge. Also there is a river crossing to get to the steep push. One time I could just walk through the water as it was so low, another time it was a raging torrent and I had to leap from rock to rock whilst carrying my bike. If the river is running that fast this time I don't think the event will take place at all as the other rivers you need to cross will be equally as swollen.

The most frustrating thing about the Fealar Lodge section is being able to see the good track but having to detour to the lodge in order to get to it.

This

Managed to snap my Scalpel mech hanger, I've ordered a new one (£25!!!), Just in case it isn't here in time I've put gears onto my Stooge (I know I have a few weeks but I don't like to leave it till last minute).
The real question is if both bikes are in good health for the 12th, which one should I take?

Option 1. Full suspension carbon fibre Cannondale Scalpel SE with 1X12 gears and dropper post.

Option 2. Rigid steel Stooge mark 2 with 1x11 gears.

I actually bought the Scalpel with this kind of ride in mind but I really like my Stooge especially as it's so reliable due to it having no suspension.

Anyone want to share their ride strategy and kit list for the noobs like me? 😉

Either really. How much kit are you carrying?

If I reckoned I'd need a decent shelter, spare clothing etc then I'd likely take the Stooge (or, in my case, my Pact #Wildcat) as it carried a decent load easily. If I reckoned the weather was good and I was on for a fast/dry ride, I'd take the Scalpel (or, in my case my Occam) and strap as little on it as possible.

(This is all I had on the Occam last September)

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48782812482_b0fab44d5e_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48782812482_b0fab44d5e_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2hjLEzQ ]P1060070[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/ ]Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr

There's a couple of sections where a dropper would be handy, but not essential.

Ride strategy really depends on what you are aiming to do balanced with your fitness, skill, etc. Figure out where the resupply points and potential shelters are and list them on a card like this:

81km, Glenmore cafe, 0900-1700
240km, Braemar, Co-op 0700-2200

Then if it's 2100 and you are at 220km you stand a chance of getting there before it shuts, if you were at 200km then you aren't going to make it so no need to push things but you've the option of bivvying and waiting until morning or pushing through.

Unless you are fast you will be bivvying. Three years ago on the Sept start I got to the Linn of Dee car park just as it got dark. I then rode, with hike-a-bike on the Feshie watershed, to Aviemore before bivvying just before Nethy forest. Events dictated otherwise but that was around a 30-31hr schedule.

Kit wise: will depend on the weather but more than likely I'll have my lightweight bivvy kit of cuben fibre tarp, carbon fibre pole, lightweight quilt and mattress. Either won't bother with stove or just take a meths stove in a small (400ml) mug for emergency use. Take lots of kit to the start and then decide according to the latest forecast. Generally don't overthink it - it's the Highlands in September not Surrey in June.

Bike: last time I was on a fully rigid Solaris with plus wheels, this time I'll probably be on a Salsa Spearfish full suss. There's sections of the route where one will be suitable and other sections where it is unsuitable.

Cheers Scotroutes, I like your suggestions, they sound very sensible and I definitely will be taking them into account when I choose which bike to take. I'm going to leave the final decision until a couple of days before the event.

hmmmm, what time on Saturday does it start and is there still spaces?

http://www.cairngormsloop.net/

10 am, 12th Sept . There are currently 18-20 starters. We planned to limit it to 30.

<deleted>

It's a nice route. Don't stress about the bike. I did it on a solaris hardtail. I also used to own the spearfish that Bob is riding this time, which would also be good. Given the choice of the stooge and the scalpel, I'd take the scalpel, but maybe with a rigid post and seatpack. That said I did the HT550 on the spearfish with a dropper, no seatpack and a backpack, which I prefer for the hike-a-bikes, of which there are a couple on the CL.

I was thinking about doing this route in September but didn't know about the event. I will be taking my time with a comfortable amount of gear and easy schedule, was thinking of trying to complete it in about 4 to 5 days. Is it worth joining the event or will I be left in a cloud of dust at the start. i.e. will everyone be treating it as a challenge to do in as quick a time as possible or do some people treat it more as journey that finishes at some point?

Reading with interest, might do the route next summer.

Cheers Whitestone. I like the idea of having a few key bits of information taped to my bars for pacing and motivation. As for speed, I'm able to keep a decent pace (for me) for up to about 100km but I'm planning on taking it easy and trying to enjoy it.

I'm not planning on taking a stove just cold food and try to get something warm in Glenmore and Braemar if the opportunity presents itself.

Kit list.

- Bivvy bag
- 3/4 mattress
- Lightweight sleeping bag
- Insulated gilet
- Food (about 2000 calories)
- 2 bottles
- Water purifying tablets
- Small first aid kit
- Spot tracker
- Garmin
- Mobile phone with the gpx file and PDFs of the route maps
- Spare pair of socks
- Light weight sleeping base layers
- Buff
- Waterproof jacket
- Merino long sleeve top
- Spare tube
- Sticky patches
- Pump
- Multi tool
- Duct tape
- Tooth brush and tooth paste
- Front and rear lights
- Smidge
- Midge head net
- Loo roll
- Hand sanitiser

Clothes wearing

- Bib shorts
- Jersey
- Waterproof socks
- Full finger gloves
- Helmet
- Shimano SPD shoes
- Sunglasses

Not too different to what I'll be taking. I won't bother with water tablets, waterproof socks or a SPOT tracker but I'd add some spare brake pads (my front pads were shot last time). Excluding food but including the various bags and harnesses to hold it in I'll have about 4kg of kit as a base, might be a bit more depending on the weather.

One point about strategy - no matter what speed you intend to ride at, stopped time is wasted time. I have two pairs of data fields on my GPS: one pair is overall time and stopped time, the other is moving speed and overall speed (includes stops). Trying to keep the moving and overall speeds as close as possible also means keeping stopped time to an absolute minimum.

For much of the route you don't need to be checking your GPS - navigationally there's only Rothiemurchus and Nethy forests that are complicated. Once you pick up a track you'll be following it for two or three hours with little chance of error (unless the ground is covered in snow) since it's the only track in the glen or across the next pass. For instance at 18km you cross the A9, you are then following the main track in the bottom of the glens over the Gaick and down to Tromish at 50km. Similarly from Nethy Bridge at 86km the next 20km to Bob Scott's in Glen Derry is just following the one path to and from the Fords of Avon.

It's worth looking at the track for important turns/junctions and noting down their distance or putting them in as waypoints on your GPS with suitable text. All too easy to be blasting along enjoying the riding only to find you have to back track a couple of km!

stopped time is wasted time

Not if you've stopped in the OBI for a pint. 😊

I'm planning on going at a nice easy pace early on then try to maintain it, a mid-ride pint would be very welcome though. 😏

I once was chatting to a guy whilst on a 200km audax and he was explaining about riding at a nice easy pace not stopping idea. Not sure why but it was a bit of a revelation to me and kind of explained why on other audax's and sportives I'd pass the same people multiple times.

I am however a sucker for an opportunity to eat or drink something nice. Yum!