[Closed] Bloody Hope cranks have snapped.... Grrrr

I think hope are shut.

How much do you weigh?

About 13 stone

How much do you weigh?

Not really relevant for cranks. Think of the typical loads that the crankset would be designed to take and then consider the relatively tiny load from dropping off a kerb - the rider’s weight shouldn’t really factor as a percentage of their limit load.

If I was Hope I’d be sending a courier to collect them to find out why they failed as a matter of urgency.

You were lucky not to be hurt IMHO - see the thread about mangled cassettes.

Dropping off a kerb you say?? Not sure that's in the spirit of "No Gnar"   😉

then consider the relatively tiny load from dropping off a kerb – the rider’s weight shouldn’t really factor as a percentage of their limit load.

Eh?

Hopped up the curb..pretty low on the gnar scale I reckon.

Think about it - these would be designed to tolerate the weight of something like the 90th percentile rider landing after the largest typical jump you might find at a trail centre, plus a safety factor.

That load is huge.

Hopping up a kerb (or down, whatever) is something like 1% of that load for someone who weighs 12 stones or 2% if they weigh 20 stones.

This is why I said that weight isn’t a factor in this failure. All in my opinion, of course.

I would check to see if the bearings were seized

I have to wonder if the axle hadn't cracked during installation of the ridiculously torqued bolt. I think this was mentioned on a previous thread as happened to someone else. Cranks had been on for about 2 months (when I got the new frame).
Their installation instructions, and acompanying video state this thing is done to quite a high torque. I even went out and bough a new wrench for just that reason. They came loose the first time of installation done in a bike shop!.
They are a proper faff. There's about 6 parts or more to installing them as opposed to Shimano which are frankly a piece of piss and have never come loose in getting on for 28 years of riding.
They have a lock ring that takes up the play and I was for ever adjusting it... To the point where I got Hope to send me a bunch of the tiny little Allen bolts as they simply round off if given the smallest bit of force.

Oh...and bearings are fine.

Overpriced bling garbage.

Taxi!!! really

Weight isn't irrelevant. If you keep cycling loads on a material in excess of the endurance limit it will eventually fail through fatigue.

Yeah...wife was at work...on her bike and I was damned if I was walking all that way back so taxi (minibus) seemed the only option really.

Hope are shut

they are but....

We are living in strange times which are affecting every part of our lives and requires changes for us all.

At Hope, we have now taken the difficult decision to temporarily suspend our production in an effort to keep our staff and wider community safe during the COVID-19 epidemic.

The whole manufacturing and despatch departments are closed from Friday 27th March, initially for three weeks.

Our customer service staff are continuing to work remotely and can be contacted via the usual phone numbers and email addresses, although we have reduced hours with our phone lines open 9-12 Monday to Friday.

I'm really easy on stuff and ride like a wuss but the only stuff I've ever broken has been Hope.

Well I'm heavy and not easy on stuff and I've never broken any Hope stuff. Stuff breaks from time to time, who knows why? this stuff has been used by riders much more gnar than any of us so clearly good enough for us. This is not the first time I've heard of Hope first gen cranks failing so not completely unheard of (got a set myself) though I'm sure it's not common by any stretch. Also see stories of Shimano Ultra and Dura Ace cranks failing (and Rodies are hardly Gnar)...and a few years ago SRAM carbon pedal thread inserts failing etc. All manufacturers have got their fair share of stories of failing parts so lets not get too much in a fuss about a handful of Hope cranks failing too.

They are a bit of a faff to install...took me a few attempts before I was satisfied I'd done it correctly, but maybe installation is a factor in the ones that have failed...would be impossible to tell, but maybe led to Hope re-designing the cranks.

Hope has always seemed like a lot of money for stuff which is mostly just cut from a billet.

If they were hard to get on I'm wondering if your BB shell is a little eccentric. That would explain the failure if the axle is subject to eccentric loads as it rotates.

It’s entirely possible for any product to have a failure at some point, nothing is perfect, even Hope! I’ve got Race Face cranks with the splined bb system, can’t remember what it was called, but I do remember them being plagued with complaints, but I had one set of bearings go, after a year or so, then had no issues at all for years, in fact they’re still on the bike, I guess they’re getting on for fifteen years old!

This is a catastrophic failure not premature wear.

The though of that happening after a decent sized drop is really quite frightening.

Until yesterday I would’ve said Shimano cranks are almost perfect, but somehow I managed to snap the chainring bolt tab off a pair of slx cranks when changing the chainring!

Some Hope stuff is fantastic but other bits like rims and cranks just seem unjustifiably heavy and expensive. Not withstanding the armoury of tools needed to fit their cranks and BBs

rydster
Member

Weight isn’t irrelevant. If you keep cycling loads on a material in excess of the endurance limit it will eventually fail through fatigue.

OK, but that's not what we're seeing here, those haven't been worn out through a long and hard life, those have failed from a material or manufacturing or design defect

@op

Setting you up a go fund me page for you for EEwings 😛

I wonder if makers of 30mm alloy spindle cranks factor in misaligned bb shells when considering strength to weight ratios. 24mm steel spindle is my preference.
Hambini has found many frames with shells way off in all directions.

Took my Hope's apart today to try and resolve the incessant creaking. Discovered the axle is broken on the overly delicate none driveside splines. 2 of the 4 quarters broken off. To be fair I bought these second hand and I dont think the none driveside crank was installed properly...crank wasnt all the way on to the splines which explains why I had to use an extra BBC spacer...couldn't work it out at the time. Saying that though.. the cranks are over complicated, over weight and too delicate for the price. My ancient xt cranks that have been on about 5 bikes are better in every way. Lighter, cheaper, simpler, and holotech is way more advanced even now. Fancy CNC Machining is just a cover for not having the necessary tooling (or maybe patants) to hollow forge cranks.

Let's clear one thing up. I can't believe that you paid 20 quid for a 5 mile taxi ride.

How far did you really ride?

Looking at the OP's pics, those cranks look as though they're in good nick - no wear on the anodizing and the chainring looks pretty unworn.

+1 for catastrophic failure, I'd send them back to Hope for analysis.

For the past ten years I've stuck with XT, not sexy but Shimano has never, ever let me down.

I’ve stuck the faithful old XTs back on for now (just they are silver and it’s all black finishing kit…oh the humanity).

Just get a set of black XTs,stick the Hope ones on ebay if they replace them. Problem solved.

Yeah the £20 hurt a bit... It was a minibus to be fair and it was 5 maybe 6 miles...plus the first 2 cash machines we stopped at were out of action.

@thornton... There was a thread on here a few months back where several folk mentioned broken or cracked axles and I did think at the time it was a bad omen. I take your point about machined cranks as well... Like I said, never had any issues with the holotechs, but I have once broken a crank arm before which just happened to be a fancy machined "kooka" crank (remember them). The hope are just plain over engineered and frankly a nightmare to fit. I can't remember the tightening torque (70nm??) But it was insane really. The bloke in the shop actually said he was buggered if he was tightening a bit of alloy up that much so he just felt it on...and then it came loose!

That was exactly what I was thinking Bigyan...the new xt have a spiderless ring (which is the only reason I got them) and just so much less faff.

Am using M8100 XT here. The cranks ain't sexy, but they're a doddle to fit. Shimano even include the special tool to tighten the chainring in the box.

Donks - interesting that you mention the torque. In my original post I was going to ask if you used a torque wrench to fit them, but then double-checked the installation guide and saw the target of 75Nm.

Short of a scaffolding pipe I think it would be quite difficult to over-tighten them and so I edited the post.

The bloke in the shop actually said he was buggered if he was tightening a bit of alloy up that much so he just felt it on…and then it came loose!

So ignored the instructions and had issues

Genuine question- is tightening to 70nm feasible with normal tools? I struggle getting things to 50nm. Cinch cranks for example, even using a hefty Park torque bar

All you need to do is hold the rear wheel and press on the torque wrench. Or If if it’s easier bike on the floor and torque the bolt.

Yes the hope ones are a faff and I don’t like them. But if you don’t follow there instructions it’s hard to complain

I have installed them my self now about 4 times. Getting 70nm on the wrench is a task. Each time I have my eyes closed just waiting for something to give. I've never tightened anything on a push bike to that level...the XT cranks you almost just need to nip up and they stay on. I'd say it was definitely why hope changed the design... I'd not be surprised if they've had loads of failures.

Genuine question- is tightening to 70nm feasible with normal tools? I struggle getting things to 50nm. Cinch cranks for example, even using a hefty Park torque bar

In a workstand, yes. Assemble bit all to the point where you need to apply torque, then stick the bike on the floor.

Having watched the assembly process, they really have over complicated it all. Everytime you add a step, there is a chance of error.

There hubs are good, durable, not to hefty. Bbs are good as well

In the grand scheme of bolt fastening, 70Nm isn't a lot but it is a fair bit to go through the average bike tool kit of a half decent allen key set.

On a 300mm long 1/2" square drive socket set it would be pushing or pulling with the equivalent strength to lift around 23Kg.

On the average shorter allen key it would be even more, probably have it twisting a fair bit and requiring a bar over it to stop it hurting your hand.

I really like Hope kit but this does seem a tad ridiculous.

why is the bearing still on the axle on the non-driveside?

Surely the bearing should be still in the frame/BB... Given the snap is right where the bearing sits on the driveside, I'm wondering if this has played a part.

But don't get me wrong, the 1st gen Hope cranks are a bad design and a right faff to fit and even worse to disassemble (I have some).

How did all those gauge marks get on there ? I had mine apart last week after 18 months of solid use and it didn’t look anything like that.

Scary stuff failing like that.

I had a set of Truvative cranks that failed - after a rocky ride they were creaking. When I took off the bolt holding them on I discovered a spiral fracture from the splines, starting just where the threads inside started. With all the machining that exact spot was the thinnest and also the change from 'supported' by crank to the daft SRAM plastic covers to the actual bearing surface.

Once again, I'm a Shimano fan here.

ndthornton.. "I dont think the none driveside crank was installed properly"..
primary cause of Hope gen 1 crank shaft failure.
P.S, I had a set of xt cranks do the same thing a few years ago.