bikes overtaking ca...
 

[Closed] bikes overtaking cars (stationary traffic)

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passed a guy at work on the way to work today in his tin box

we get to work and he has a go at me for "weaving in and out of the traffic"

my cycle is on dedicated cycle path for first half then moves to standard road for about 500metres before there is a cycle path marked onto the road

I cycle on the right of the stationary traffic on my own side of the road for those 500metres before moving to the cycle path on the left as soon as it comes along and its safe to cross traffic.

his arguement is i should wait in line like all the cars despite motorbikes being allowed to filter- its nose to tail for about 8 miles and is the main reason i bike. Says a woman got knocked off last week doing exactly what i do because a car in the queue flashed a car from a sideroad to come out and it drove into the cyclist - thats just not being aware of your surroundings(on the cyclists part) that is and stupid drivers not knowing highway code - just cause someone flashes you doesnt mean its safe to drive out without loooking

Where would you ride in that situation - left side isnt an option as the cars are kerb hugging to let motorcycles up the right ! - except the odd chap who moves over when a motorcycle/cyclist does come up his right so on the left youd be squashed


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:17 am
 aP
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Go up the outside as your more likely to be expected to be going past them there. Tell your colleague he ought to get on his bike.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:25 am
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Over his car!


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:25 am
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Overtaking, ie on the RH side of the cars/lane unless there's a dedicated cycle lane on the left. Screw what the drivers think, you've gotta assume they're all out to kill you!

I've found using a Maxx-D on flashing mode is extremely useful for being noticed, a lot more cars move towards the kerb. I can't believe they think I'm an emergency services vehicle, so it suggests people don't naturally hate cyclists, they just don't see them coming. That's my conclusion anyway!

I've been a victim of the 'flash oncoming car/turning across into side road/big bang' thing!


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:25 am
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colleague == stroker.

thread closed


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:32 am
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AS long as you're not causeing any problems to oncoming traffic or anyone turning right I think you are doing the right thing.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:37 am
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Flashing lights to let a car out of a sideroad is most likely a breach of the Highway Code. Unless it changed since I escaped the country.

If it's nose to tail, stop-start traffic, then it's moving slowly in lanes, not overtaking.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:38 am
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I do exactly the same too
your in the right
He's a Tool! ignore him

Last week heading up a road with a cycle lane on the inside and endless traffic lights. I had a car pull into the left on the cycle lane to stop me getting ahead of him as I'd done perfectly safely in the cycle lane at the last few sets of lights (I do stop at on Reds, just caught him in the traffic each time). I can think of no real reason why he felt the need to do this, other than he just didn't like a cyclist keeping up with him in the traffic ❓
So I ride around him and continue on the cycle path
next time he gets a chance he he does his best to intimidate me comming past, driving in the cycle lane leaving no room and beeping his horn, shouting and gesturing.
FFS why what harm was I doing? answer none! He just for some reason didn't like me

The world is full of Tools!


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:39 am
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I was unfortunate enough hit a cyclist, I had been flashed that I was good to turn right across the front of heavy traffic by a lorry and the cyclist was overtaking the lorry on the left, I stood zero chance of seeing him, he was OK, but it was horrible. I think that the insurance went against me too.

Never, ever, undertake, especially near a junction.

What you was doing was perfectly acceptable.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:40 am
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Keith, he's probably a 26er.

Tinsy you shouldn't have turned unless you knew it was clear.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:54 am
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IIRC, if you flash someone to move out and they are then in an RTA you are also at fault.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 10:55 am
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Once again, you are doing exactly the right thing. Overtake on the outside unless there is a cycle lane. As he pointed out, your [i]do[/i] have to watch out for other vehicles and pedestrians not expecting to see you there.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:10 am
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yup I understand that, thats why the insurance went against me. I wasnt in the right I get that. Happens a lot though, my point was dont undertake no one knows you are there, right or wrong no point in jepordising yourself.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:12 am
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Never, ever, undertake, especially near a junction.

and certainly not a lorry!

Anyway the answer is it depends. Sometimes its better to go past on the left, sometimes the right.

You were probably correct in this case

Problems with going outside:
- something big coming the other way
- bollards, islands etc
- cars turning right or overtaking cyclists
- if you want to turn left or if the traffic speeds up then you need to cross traffic to get on the left again

Problems with going inside:
- cutting you up to turn left
- not enough space
- crossing junctions
- doors opening
- lorry/bus death (NEVER go left on something big)
- idiot pedestians

its a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:20 am
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grunty - Member
IIRC, if you flash someone to move out and they are then in an RTA you are also at fault.

The highway code says that flashing someone is only a signal that "you are there". It has no other meaning. How do you know the driver isn't flashing to warn you [i]not[/i] to pull out?


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:21 am
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[i]I've been a victim of the 'flash oncoming car/turning across into side road/big bang' thing! [/i]

Me too. It happened again the other night but this time I was expecting it and had clear vision so could see what was going on. I stopped and the car turned in front of me (waving his thanks) then the driver who'd flashed him caught up with me and leaned over to say out the window "I'm terribly sorry about that, didn't realise you were so close" etc etc. Was really apologetic about it.

As for over/undertaking - whatever is safest, screw what the drivers think.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:36 am
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Filter like a motorcycle. Just look out for them - can't believe the number of cyclists who will pop out on the right of stationary traffic without looking, not expecting anyone else (cyclist or motorcylist) to be doing the same.

As for cars emerging from side roads, you are the one overtaking the traffic so it's down to you to assess how safe that overtake is. You're generally up higher with a better view than the car emerging so it's the overtaker's call on whether it's safe to do it or not.

A big problem these days (esp in London) is that a lot of cyclists have the feeling of an entitlement to be getting past the traffic so just proceed regardless instead of regarding it as what it is - an overtake that needs planning and judgement about whether it's safe to do so.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:37 am
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you were correct what is their problem? I am happy to discuss best practice riding with a fellow cyclists but I am not listening to a non cycling car driver when they feel the need to tell me what is safest. What is safest for me is that they all leave their cars at home is my stock reply.
As I commute the same route I know where all the cars may get flashed out and proceed with extra caution at these points.
Do what is the safest thing for you in any given situation is my motto


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 11:45 am
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Excuse my ignorance but am I right in saying you're not supposed to undertake stationary traffic on the left (according to highway code etc)??

I'm always pondering this on my commute home - my route takes me a long a single lane of stationary traffic which then open up to a bus lane and single lane traffic.

If I overtake on the right of the traffic it's virtually impossible to then cut into the traffic to get to the bus lane on the left...

And yes, having heard of some gruesome accidents.. never undertake a lorry or bus anywhere near a junction!!


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 12:08 pm
 DezB
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[i]his arguement is i should wait in line like all the cars[/i]

As you say, just what would be the point of riding then? It would take bloody hours to get into my work by bike. What a knobend.
Funny, no-one here (at my work, I mean) would talk to me like that.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 12:14 pm
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Excuse my ignorance but am I right in saying you're not supposed to undertake stationary traffic on the left (according to highway code etc)??

General advice is to not undertake stationary traffic on the left.

However...

I believe the HC talks about 'impromptu' lanes being created when traffic is stationary. Eg, on side roads cars will often 'create' lanes that are not marked on the road as they split for left and right turns. It could be argued that stationary traffic 'creates' a bike lane to their left.

As an example, there's a pretty wide main road here where cars queue a couple of feet from the dashed lines in the centre of the road, leaving a car-wide+ gap to their left. Filtering on the right is almost impossible, and certainly dangerous, but on the left is much much safer.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 12:35 pm
 hh45
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Your colleaugue is a ****t (pls tell him or her that I said so). The highway code, common sense and experience all suggest you should go up the right.

And even if you were weaving that is your potential loss not his / hers.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 1:43 pm
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As you say, just what would be the point of riding then? It would take bloody hours to get into my work by bike. What a knobend.

What would be the piont? well your saving money for starters. Where is it written that cycling to work has to be faster and you should ignore all traffic?

Im with Trail_Rat on overtaking on the outside as a rule(or wherever is safest) but then i dont treat my commute as a race like a lot of riders seem to think they have a right to do. You have to ride like you would drive, not blatting along ignorant of potential risks or cutting infront of others no matter what they happen to be in/on.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 1:56 pm
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I always go up the right now as you are more likely to be seen although you do have teh risk of on-comming traffic 🙂


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 2:01 pm
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I agree with the impromptu lane theory. Traffic which is filtering is allowed to overtake/undertake a slower lane.

I suppose it could be called weaving if you are returning to the offside when the traffic has speeded up. Wonder how the car drivers would feel if you just stayed on the nearside?

Off topic slightly: I am absolutely staggered by the number of cyclists who swap lanes/turn right without the slightest backward glance.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 2:08 pm
 DezB
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[i]Where is it written that cycling to work has to be faster and you should ignore all traffic?[/i]

Do you want to rethink that whole sentence? Just cos its a bit STUPID, like.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 2:16 pm
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My Commute home takes me through couple of regular tail back spots approaching junctions, roundabouts and lights, I move past on either kerb side or drivers side as I see most appropriate, sometimes the oncoming traffic is unpredictable/too fast/too close to make passing on the RH side an option, sometimes many of the cars are tight in to the kerb the LH side isn’t an option, sometimes neither option is really viable and I do indeed wait in traffic, I try to make progress where I can, cycles are allowed to pass stationary/slow moving traffic on either side where it is safe to do so or at least that was my understanding, I use judgement and knowledge of the route and observation of potential dangers which is what any car driver should be doing, I can’t do anymore than that really and all of this is at a reduced speed to allow for the increased risk from moving through stationary cars with inattentive drivers…

Lets be fair if there’s a car sized gap anywhere in traffic, many drivers will do their utmost to make some road distance using it (and we’re talking Yards here) ,if there’s a bike in front of a car and the driver can see it’s safe to pass then he will. Can he really admonish a cyclist for doing simply trying to do the same and make a bit of progress?
Normally in free moving traffic the boot is on the other foot and cyclists do their best not get in the way of Cars when they are the slower moving vehicle, following your colleagues logic we should all move at the same speed as the slowest vehicle on the road, and drivers should sit Bikes…


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 2:36 pm
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never undertake! an easy enough rule to remember and to prove that rule there will be an exception to it.

the car that pulled out from the right and hit the cyclist in the middle of the road should have checked it was clear and not just taken the 'nod' from the car flashing........ actually the car flashing should have minded his/her own business.

so never flash and never undertake.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 2:41 pm
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Off topic slightly: I am absolutely staggered by the number of cyclists who swap lanes/turn right without the slightest backward glance.

A couple of comments:

1. I see plenty of drivers doing this, and they have mirrors..!

2. I think many people on bikes struggle with balance/maintaining a straight line if they glance backwards.

For me, I ride on the track, so checking over shoulders is sort of second nature.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 3:10 pm
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I'd have a quiet chat with your colleague and show some sympathy as I explained that it must be terrible having a penis and small as his. You could suggest that he consults a specialist plastic surgeon to help him


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 4:04 pm
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I'd have a quiet chat with your colleague and show some sympathy

Yes, also check with him that he didn't bruise his foot stamping it in frustration like a child when he realised that someone was better than him at going to work. And after he spent all that money on his shiny car....


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 4:07 pm
 jond
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Re no undertaking - that really applies to multi-lane roads, cyclists are expected to be near the curb at most other times so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they would carry on moving in the same manner. I can't see any restriction in that respect from a quick glance through the highway code website (or other forums)

Having said that, I'd generally overtake on the offside for all the obvious reasons...


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 4:46 pm
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Email your colleague a link to this thread...its only fair s/he gets to put across their side of the arguement 😉


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 5:16 pm
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blehh i dont care about cars tbh , i ride in front of em to show off my nice clean bike anyway 😛


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 6:11 pm
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I suppose it could be called weaving if you are returning to the offside when the traffic has speeded up. Wonder how the car drivers would feel if you just stayed on the nearside?

Are you confusing your Offside and Nearside?


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 6:14 pm
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Introduce him to Ton, then get him to argue the point.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 6:30 pm
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Stay on the cycle lane keep eyes and ears alert.

Only overtake stationary traffic on the right handside of statinary cars in que.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 6:35 pm
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I'd argue that you should stay OFF the cyclelane as its by far the least visible, most dangerous part of the road, and it, and advanced stop lanes, positively encourage cyclists to undertake.
Take the lane when you need to, behave like a small motorcycle, filter and overtake carefully on the right.


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 7:44 pm
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Overtake stationary cars on whichever side is safest. Sometimes in will be the left, sometimes the right. Assume no one has seen you at all times. Its perfectly legal to do either


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 7:48 pm
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Wee in his shoes...


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 8:07 pm
 juan
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Funny, no-one here (at my work, I mean) would talk to me like that.

yeah but that's because they know you are the [url= http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard1.html ]bofh[/url]


 
Posted : 11/02/2010 9:03 pm