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I grew up in the yorkshire dales, not flat cycling area as such. All of our primary school year did cycling proficiency, they drew roads in the school playground. We loved it, it was an hour playing on our bikes.
Found the forum thread eventually, (and I thought this forum could get confusing)
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12873728&hilit=lineker
druidh - Member
Apparently, you are all "uncompromising extremists" if you're not in favour of this campaign.
That sounds a familiar line of argument....
😉
The thing is, it's not about being anti-training. Cyclist training is a great idea, so many riders genuinely are rubbish. School training is good, adult training is good. Barriers to exercise are not good, barriers to cheap transport are not good.
What other products does Gary Lineker promote? I wonder how those companies might view his stance and the risk of alienating a large number of cyclists 🙂
good job i've got this then
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😆
I'm 3 1/2 months older than that certificate....
What other products does Gary Lineker promote? I wonder how those companies might view his stance and the risk of alienating a large number of cyclists
[i]Walkers[/i] Crisps are clearly going to be on the side of the pedestrians in this debate.
The promoters of this, Ingenie, have quite an interesting business model:
http://www.ingenie.com/how-it-works
? A telematics box is fitted in the car and assesses your driving style
? Receive regular feedback on how you're driving - either via the ingenie app or online
? There are no time curfews or mileage limitations
? ingenie is not a speeding camera in disguise - find out how we use your data
? We assess trends and patterns in your driving style rather than look at isolated incidents
? The cost of your insurance is reviewed every three months with a discount applied to the best and most improved drivers in the community
Which has interesting echoes of the Hundred Car Study that was carried out in the US a few years back:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-research/research-technology/tech/100-car-naturalistic.htm
One of the conclusions of this study was that even when people know their driving is being monitored, they still drive like idiots.
I don't think national curriculum based childrens training scheme followed by a mandatory cycling version of the CBT at 18 or over would be a bad thing - we have all seen novice cyclist's putting themselves in danger
This would have to hand in hand with automatic 'at fault' presumption on the part of the motorist and of course proper cycle lane management
what a utopia that would be
BUT
These days the insurance companies rule the world and as with pet insurance, gap insurance etc etc we know that it would be a short step to private medical insurance refusing to pay out for un-insured cyclists, cyclists not wearing helmets etc. Problem is this will probably come in anyway now we are firmly in the spotlight
So - "Share the Roads" - 1/3 for motorised vehicles, 1/3 for bikes and 1/3 for pedestrians?
Cycling would be safer if
a) drivers drove more carefully, thoughtfully and more skillfully (too many incidents to recall...)
b) cyclists rode more carefully, thoughtfully and more skillfully (too many RLJers, too much not looking before moving; at Hyde Park corner this morning, a couple of cyclists appeared to have managed to have a collision all on their own, no cars involved!)
and in London Village at least
c) pedestrians just looked before they stepped out into the road!
I do think cycling training would help ensure less experienced cyclists understood their vulnerability and the generally poor standard of driving they're going to have to cope with, and rode accordingly
So - "Share the Roads" - 1/3 for motorised vehicles, 1/3 for bikes and 1/3 for pedestrians?
.25 each. You forgot horseys.
Won't somebody think of the Segway riders?
😉
Bikeradar front page article about all this has mysteriously disappeared in the last minute...
They've pulled the article... doh too slow.
But yeah, all gone, having garnered universally negative feedback from anyone not called Gary Lineker or Alan Sugar
Won't somebody think of the Segway riders?
No. I have to comply with the law of gravity while these bloody segway riders flout it at every oportunity. Are do they take any test before balancing like balancing crazy things? NO!!!
Bike Radar has only just posted its own announcement of this, has pulled the article 10 minutes later.
CaptainFlashheart - MemberWon't somebody think of the Segway riders?
Are we now endorsing using modes of transport that are not legally allowed on the Queen's highways?
Shame on you! It could have been a child's face.
This is the main image for people like me who didn't see the article.
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Posted 3:37pm Tuesday 21 August, so it was up for nearly 24 hours.
Mike_D: strange because I went looking for BR's article this morning and there wasn't one, only saw it go up this afternoon. Could have been a pre-published date, i.e. it was drafted last night?
Bikebiz article referred to it mid-morning, was definitely there around 10am.
Fair doos!
[url= http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.bikeradar.com/news/article/gary-lineker-and-bikeradar-back-ingenies-road-safety-campaign-35017/ ]Google cache of the article[/url]
(care of BR member cookdn)
Yes! My sarcastic comments have been preserved by Google Cache.
How long before we get the grovelling [i]"we think it was right to post because it has raised awareness of the issues"[/i] type response?
Jam bo I have one of those, it's about 10 years older!
I'm tempted to try and see if mine is in my childhood scrap book
(which is in the box under my monitor... hmm)
PS: Has the Gary lineker deleted his "Only the uncompromising extremist ones" tweet?
(I don't follow any twitter account but went looking for it after the future publishing retraction)
Like the updated 'controversy' Wiki entry...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_plc
as no doubt it'll be deleted:
ControversyOn 22nd August 2012 the Future PLC title BikeRadar launched a campaign in co-operation with car insurance firm Ingenie, promoting a concept marketed with the Twitter hashtag #ShareTheRoadUK.[8] The campaign espoused several principles of road sharing. The campaign's homepage stated:[9]
We have written an open letter to the Transport Secretary Justine Greening MP proposing the following:
Mandatory cycle safety should be included in the national curriculum for both primary and secondary schools to help promote co-operation and tolerance between the motorists and cyclists of the future.
Mandatory cycle safety elements should be included in the driving theory and practical test.
Compulsory training and testing for cyclists before they take to the road.
Ingenie investor Gary Lineker is an 'ambassador' for the campaign. His response the the Twitter question "you do realise that #ShareTheRoadUK is getting panned left, right and centre by cyclists?" was "Only the uncompromising extremist ones". Along with many Twitter users, UK cycling organisations and campaigners voiced their objection to the campaign,[citation needed] including the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain[10]
At 2pm the same day (22 august 2012) Bikeradar removed the article endorsing the campaign from its website.[citation needed]
Well, it's nice that cyclists seem to be able to get what they want on Twitter, anyway. Now what about the real world?
I still have mine and photo proof of the award ceremony
That Ingenie diagram is so flawed as a piece of information, it shouldn't really be used to promote their campaign. It's little more than a piece of marketing fluff designed to promote their commercial enterprise really.
It's sad that companies like this are jumping on the cycling popularity bandwagon simply to make money. I see very little in their proposals that actually speak of real, tangible workable solutions.
Lineker's tweet shows up here:
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/238223860963606528
But not on his feed here:
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker
Twitter filters out replies by default, you need this link: https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/with_replies
He only responds to the particularly angry or shouty ones. Throw a logical counter argument and he ignores you.
I'd love a copy of the survey data + how the demographic was chosen and the original questions asked to see how much of that Ingenie diagram is number-bending-BS. How do FoI requests work anyway....?
Aha, Gary has the Twitter-fu 🙂
Don't think FoI has anything to do with private companies.
Details of their PR agency and pollsters here, if anyone honestly fancies following this up: http://uk.prweb.com/releases/ingenie/sharetheroaduk/prweb9820888.htm
It's like everyone has forgotten that they're only bicycles, the same as you used to ride around the park on care free as a kid. 🙄
Operation backpedal on #sharetheroaduk begins… http://www.ingenie.com/blog/2012/08/sharetheroaduk
[quote=druidh ]How long before we get the grovelling "we think it was right to post because it has raised awareness of the issues" type response?
Not that long then....
Surely we're not disagreeing with this?
We think that educating young drivers around cycle safety and making them more aware of cyclists is important. We also think cyclists should be supported so they can stay safe on the roads and we provided tips for young people - cyclists and motorists on how best to improve relationships on the road.
or this?
We believe that cycle safety should become compulsory for drivers in both theory and practical driving tests to ensure that motorists have sufficient training to drive safely and so that they are more aware of cyclists.
Both quotes from here: http://www.ingenie.com/blog/2012/08/sharetheroaduk
/p>
Aren't these ideas what we talk about all the time? Better driving?
And personally I ride for my health and because I enjoy it, not to die. So why wouldn't I accept training on cycling safely?
no, brooess we're not - it was tying those two to compulsory testing for all cyclists that caused the controversy.
Brooess, we're contesting the call for compulsory cycle training and testing for all cyclists – a bicycle licence. Which is totally unnecessary given the nature and realtive lack of danger caused by using one.
Ingenie is now backpedalling with its testing-lite. Which is obviously still ill-thoughout rubbish. What about preschool children and people who don't go to school anymore? And if it's training and a test, but not a licence, then what is it they're calling for? They obviously don't know anymore.
The point on “Compulsory training and testing for cyclists before they take to the road” is not intended as a cycle licence. We have included it to highlight the benefit that education can have for new cyclists, especially young people. We think that this training and testing could work as part of the national curriculum.
why wouldn't I accept training on cycling safely?
Because the real danger on roads doesn't come from untrained cyclists.
And the whole thing is just a badly thought-out PR campaign, complete with fourth-rate "Information Is Beautiful"-style infographic, that's aimed more at painting cyclists in a bad light than making any positive difference to road safety.
My bad - should've read the whole thread first!
My view is that there are a lot of cyclists - prob a majority - who don't ride safely - same as the majority of drivers don't drive safely.
But: even tho training and even testing for cyclists would surely help improve this situation, I'm tired of being victimised on the roads by poor/ignorant and bullying drivers - who are a bigger contribution to the problem than bad cyclists... and if you follow the 80/20 rule, tackling drivers would bring about the largest improvement of the situation