Hi there,
I thought I was new here but see I registered in 2010.
I have a real dilemma about bikes and storage space. I have a Surly Disc Trucker 2017 with flat top tube, a lovely bike for road tours and some gravel. I want a bike for bikepacking, something with lower centre of gravity and ‘sit in’ rather than ‘sit on’, if that makes sense. Is there a bike that would do both road touring and bikepacking? I have been looking at the Surly Ogre/ECR but I just don’t know. I basically want one bike to do both things. I already have carbon and steel road bikes taking up space so really want this once size fits all solution. Which bike though? Can you help?
Also, for bikepacking do you go up a frame size? I’m 5’10” typically go for medium frames.
My tandem is exactly what you describe. Its based on the carrier mmodel from www.clandestine.cc We did a month tour in the summer which included some pretty full on offroad touring and long road miles.
We went for lots of stand over for the tandem, but otherwise reducing stand over not a bad idea for increasing frame bag potential. Obviously you dont want the bike too big...
I use a Genesis for off road and on road tours. Looks a bit weird with skinny tires but it works fine. I bought a frame and built it up though, the off the peg complete bikes probably wouldn't be ideal.
How do you want to attach bags to your bike?
Using panniers or saddle bags, bar bags, frame bags etc?
Forgot to put the model name in, it's a genesis longitude.
i did exactly the same as you are planning.
owned a surly trucker then a disc trucker since there first inception. toured happily on it, but always like to take a offroad option if available.
so i bought a surly ecr about 4 years ago. brilliant bike. like a disc trucker on steroids. but you dont get the riding in the frame thing with it.
to achieve that kind og feeling, you want a tourer with a higher handlebar position.
i bought a salsa fargo for this reason. it is far better than both the ecr and the trucker.
I bought a mason bokeh for almost exactly this purpose. Two sets of wheels and Shimano grx 2x group.
It’s fast enough for me on the road and more then capable on gravel. Done a few 300mile tours on it. Loads of fixing points for racks,guards etc.
My Pipedream ALICE was perfect for this kind of brief: could swallow 27.5 x 2.8, as well as 700c/29er, can run drops, flats or loop bars (I used Jones on mine). It was a close as I ever got to an N=1 bike, especially with dynamo lighting.
Another option is something like a Salsa Fargo/Cutthroat.
I have Ortlieb panniers and rack for road and I have Ortlieb bikepacking front roll, frame and seat pack for bikepacking that are currently on an old 26” MTB soon to go as I killed it on the Pennine Bridleway.
Perhaps a Kona Sutra Ltd? Maybe not this years model with the dropper post but I’ve got the 2020 one and it’s great. It’s definitely not a road bike but with a set of wheel changes it can go from comfy tourer to off road gravel machine that’s very tough. I’d happily do a few weeks tour on it if I ever felt the need as it just feels solid in every aspect.
It's going to be a compromise so you need to decide what to compromise in favour of, off-road performance or on road.
Thanks so much for these replies, I’ll look up all those suggestions. It’s great to see my question was not daft and shot down. It’s good to see the ECR in there too as that has been a consideration, not that any of these bikes are easy to source at the moment. The plan would to be get the frame and build it up, and yes, have two sets of wheels, Road tourers and off road. I woke up thinking about a Kona Sutra LTD.
Salsa Fargo looks great, so does the Genesis.
I wouldn't hold your breath while trying to source a new ECR. It's been discontinued.
I've just sold my Fargo and currently have a Cutthroat. If you can stretch to the Cutty it's comfier and faster everywhere, particularly on road sections where the Fargo doesn't feel like it rewards your extra effort after a point. I'm not sure I'd want to be putting many road miles on an ECR either.
My other half has a Bridge Club. It feels more spritely than the Fargo did and can fit 2.8 tyres but unlike the ECR you can also go back to "normal" tyres as the rims aren't super wide and the BB won't drag on the ground like an ECR would. You could run one with a pair of wheelsets, one with 700c road touring tyres and another with off-road 650b tyres.
Salsa Fargo looks great, so does the Genesis.
The Longitude would definitely bias towards off-road performance it being a mountain bike! It suits my usage though as it's basically my one bike for everything from touring to trail centres.
Great advice, yeah, I saw the ECR was gone and the Ogre won’t be in stock as a frameset for 5 months. This is such great advice. The Salsa Fargo looks great and I’ll check out the Cutthroat. That ECR advice about about weight and drag is particularly appreciated as I do want robust but not tank. If I had the space I’d have a few bikes here.
It's really hard to see past a sonder camino unless you need more than 2 inch tyres.
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-camino
Its very good value, has a carbon fork with mounting points, threaded bottom bracket, takes upto 700x50 tyres or wider if 650b. Has rack mounts, mudguard mounts. Alliminium or ti.
Frame and fork starting at £399 (its just gone up by £100 unfortunately)
I think frame and forks are available if you want to transfer kit over from your surly. Delays are if you want a full build.
Genesis Vagabond could be good, I rated mine as it was more of an MTB with drops. (Also look at Bombtrack Hook or Salsa Fargo)
Although in recommend what you own I ended up with a (29er) Longitude, as it is longer and therefore IMO more useful for bikepacking. It definitely feels very ‘sit-in’. I’m 5 9 and a medium is fine. I tried a large and that felt great too, but not so flickable. Better for the grind/space though. I chose medium but I’d want to try both sizes first.
Use the Longitude for everything, with simple stem/bar-changes I found that it can also be more MTB (wide flats/risers) or more road/distance (narrow flat w/bar-ends). Found that Race King Protection tyres offer a good compromise on all surfaces and are still fairly swift on tarmac.
Instead of switching bars often I’m toying with the idea of Koga Denham bars as all-rounders (I didn’t get on with the Geoff loops) as they look clever.
Wildcard:
Polygon Bend is £700 at Blacks
(S or M)
The R5 looks interesting. Blacks have then in S,M,L
I own both the Longitude and the Sutra Ltd. They’re both great bikes. The Sutra in particular is incredibly comfortable for road, gravel and xc style singletrack. I use that bike the most. However, as soon as any aspiration for speed goes such as bikepacking, I use the Longitude - super simple, super reliable, easy to pack out with stuff.
I’m not sure I’d want to be putting many road miles on an ECR either.
i rode 105 miles on mine from home to the south lakes mtb festival. i was ****ed ;o)
For that ‘in it’ feel - my Niner RLT is very much in that camp (p20 rode it yesterday and said the same). Definitely can see it’s mtb background in regards to the geometry but no slouch on the road with the right tyres. Loads of mounting points, takes up to 700 x 50 mm. I have the 853 steel and it’s incredibly comfortable. In the week I use it as a commuter with full guards etc. This weekend I took it down singletrack I normally take the mtb down! Plan to bikepack with it next year (might try some 650b and 2.1s).
I have an ECR and I find it climbs well and is great for plodding around on all day. I feel like I’m in it not on it and that is, I think, due to the low BB. I recon an ECR frameset will be hard to find
I also have a longitude which is more spritely as it’s mot as heavily built as the ECR. It is a bit flexible when loaded up with lots of stuff but I’m pretty heavy. I recon the longitude is really good and under appreciated bike.
Really appreciate all this great advice and opinions. I’m making a table of suggestions and the Sutra/Cutthroat/Longitude are topping it so far. They all look great to be honest.
I recon the longitude is really good and under appreciated bike.
I really rate mine as a do (almost) anything bike. I rode the Great Glen Way down to a mates near Fort Bill with 45mm gravel tyres and it felt pretty good. The next day I put 2.3" tyres on and rode the Laggan trails and really enjoyed that too. Obviously it was slower round Laggan than something with suspension but it still worked.
I’m making a table of suggestions and the Sutra/Cutthroat/Longitude are topping it so far. They all look great to be honest.
Don't forget about the genesis vagabond
I have the Vagabond and the Longitude. The decision process on which to take out goes something like this; heavily loaded, majority off road = Longitude vs lighter loaded, mixture of off road, gravel and roads = Vagabond. Love both bikes if I had to choose 1 it would probably be the Vagabond as most the riding from home trails are easy going non technical gravel or road. Thankfully they were both relatively cheap in stock build so i don't need to make that choice!
Did 60km ride out to the Surrey Hills yesterday mixture of road, gravel and off road in a comfortable 3 hrs on the Vagabond. If that had been on the harsh aluminium gravel bike, i would be feeling beaten up today and it wouldn't have been any quicker - you have to love a nice steel frame (despite the weight)