If they shut all week, I wouldn't even notice. If you can't compete with the internet stores on price, then surely you have to offer something they can't - which is a little difficult if you are shut when most of your customers could visit: after 5pm weekdays, bank holidays and half the weekend. Surely those should be your busiest times! Have a look at the big furniture stores, restaurants or even the large national bike stores. These are busy time for them and they seem to manage to find people willing to work "un-sociable hours" and be open when their customers want to visit. What is it with many small shop owners? If they were more imaginative with their opening hours they could fit in better with their customers free time, their own family time and get more riding done during the week when the family is at school/work. Instead, if you want convenience, you shop on-line and it comes next day.
Well my experience of working today in my shop on a bank holiday went like this...
Open up early at 9am, get the coffee on the go.
Finish off stock take.
11am sort out last 2 remaining repairs call customers.
11.10am look out window to see horizontal rain.
12.30pm eat lunch.
12.50 pm first money of the day £9.98.
Plan which luxury yacht I should now buy with my new found wealth.
Accept to more repairs into the workshop.
2.00pm have a repair collected, second sale of the day, woo!
3.50pm sell 2, that's right 2 helmets.
Go home as I've had enough now.
Honestly I have tried Sundays, late evenings, it just doesn't work unless all the retailers in a highstreet do the same. People go to out of town retail parks as they know the shop will still be open.
All the types of places you mention are well known for having staff who lack any knowledge and don't care about their job, maybe bike shops want staff who are experienced, skilled and knowledgeable but with that comes the inclination not to want to work un-social hours.
You have a point and I'm sure 'decent' bike shops will try and address it as much as possible although I think you'll be surprised by how many people can pop in during the week. This means they'll need to open 8am until 7pm and that means more staff to cover the 6 or even 7 day week without necessarily any more turnover whcih simply isn't viable.
Would you want to work evenings and weekends on low pay?
not viable for a lot of stores depending on the positioning of the store and also a lot of independents would be working through the night sorting invoices,PAYE etc etc
Surely those should be your busiest times!
Depends on where your shop is.
If they were more imaginative with their opening hours they could fit in better with their customers free time, their own family time and get more riding done during the week when the family is at school/work. Instead, if you want convenience, you shop on-line and it comes next day.
What about the fact that 'family time' is generally after school and work?
So after riding all day while the family are at school etc you then go to work just as they are going home?
You forget things that go on in a shop like repairs (all day long), deliveries at 8.30am sometimes and usually no later than 1pm, the massive staff bill etc.
Many shops have tried extending hours and sundays etc and there is a reason that shop hours are shop hours. They actually work quite well.
Your man at home looking for a cassette at 9pm after his dinner will not want to come into a town to buy one... would they?
Don't assume shops don't want to compete with all hours of the day shopping - it doesn't actually make a lot of sense staffing an empty shop.
Once again... this depends entirely on location.
All the types of places you mention are well known for having staff who lack any knowledge and don't care about their job, maybe bike shops want staff who are experienced, skilled and knowledgeable but with that comes the inclination not to want to work un-social hours.
Except restaurants, pubs etc etc. Un-sociable comes with the job, top chef or not, maybe it should in many more service industry jobs.
By imaginative I meant rather than be open for the handful who can pop in during the week, be open for the majority who could pop in after the 9 to 5.
Would you want to work evenings
I'd love to be at home until 5pm: drop the kids off at school, go for a ride, sort my business afairs, collect the kids from school, go to work for 3hrs, sounds good to me, better than shift work.
05 have you ever worked in retail ?
if i would of opened/extended my opening hours after the local stores had closed it would of been a considerable security risk and would put extra strain on the already tight staffing levels
My local town was busy today, but not at the bike shops, well maybe Halfords. Open when you need them....
Could you find the same number of hours to be open just at more sensible time for your customers, so they don't have to go to the online stores?
When do retailers find time to ride?
05 have you ever worked in retail ?
I reckon the chances are he is still at school, idealism rarely works in the real world.
I often get asked why we don't open Sundays, I always point out that just because it's convenient for you because you don't have to work Sundays, then what about the customers who would find it more convenient to buy your company's goods/services on a Sunday? (or whatever day/time)
To much me me me in this world me thinks.
What ever happened to the keep Sunday special campaign?
05 are you thinking to work a split shift ?
My LBS opens at 08:30 most weekdays (so that customers can drop their bikes off on the way to work) and closes at 17:30, apart from, Thursday late night shopping 20:00.
It's take time for it to work - time for punters to become accustomed to it.
A few years ago I used to have a trials/MX motorcycle parts shop
we did quite well running a COD evening delivery service
In fact it got to the point where we were taking more in the evening than the day
the sunday opening of the 90's was a knock on effect of retailers not wishing to "lose out " on their little share of the market ,
retailers work to many hours and days as it is just my opinion
when i bought my gaff it shut on a wed afternoon and didnt open on a sunday...sunday afternoon is now one of our busiest times.we do really well out of wednesday avo as well due to every other shop being shut...
we also open late on a thursday but that is hit or miss...i think i make an effort all told
My ocal bike shpops do open late - or some of them. EBC is till 8 pm mon / sat and a shorter day sunday, TBC is open 9.30 till 6 late night thurs till 7 and so on. Closed sunday
uplink your store is/was a very specialist market and good on you for taking the initiative and doing what was needed but i bet it added a lot of workhours onto your month
What ever happened to the keep Sunday special campaign?
Yeah, I never use [b]any[/b] service industry on a Sunday and I suppose you don't either 🙄
I often get asked why we don't open Sundays, I always point out that just because it's convenient for you because you don't have to work Sundays
Or put another way: I open when it suits me not my customers, if I'm shut when they want to come in, they can spend their money elsewhere, I don't need their custom.
but i bet it added a lot of workhours onto your month
I never counted but all self-employed is very long hours so didn't really worry about it. I was very young & it was also a labour of love to some degree.
In the end a family & a decision to move meant I sold my half to my partner & moved on
Things I've 'learned' from posts here
most profit is made on the bits'n'pieces and servicing
mail order prices are often below trade to the small buyer
what the customer wants is never in stock
My 'idea' for a bike shop - feel free to ridicule or otherwise.
Keep a stock of day to day items and accessories but have an 'internet caff' type set up where buyers can order from the big mail order concerns on the understanding the goods are delivered to the shop for fitting (which is charged for)
Also try to strike a deal to stock frames from some of the more 'niche' brands which are often hard to demo (or sometimes even see) before buying.
Would it work, no idea - but it does seem the 'normal high street bike shop' needs to change it's approach a bit to stay competitive
I like my shop to be open as much as possible, being closed makes me feel uneasy. But this year we're closing Easter Sunday and Xmas day. As for late nights, depends almost entirly on location and people's expectations. Where we are, everyone else is closed by 6, there's no night life (restraunts/bars)so the town centre's dead - I can sit there 6pm to 8 and see no one and take no money or even a phone call. My time is better spent at home on paperwork and updating website stuff. I don't think Mr 05five has a clue what running a small business is like 😆
Yeah, I never use any service industry on a Sunday and I suppose you don't either
Are you old enough to remember when Great Briton functioned without Sunday opening?
What exactly do you need on a Sunday that you can't buy on a Saturday?
Or perhaps we should all open 24/7 so we can sell a light bulb for 10p profit when you need it, rather than you bothering to keep a spare?
Visited Berlin recently, Sunday there was like it used to be here, very few shops open, not sure if all Germany is like this but it made me wonder why we push for 24/7, just feels like Saturday part 2 now.
Then you should live up here. Our lbs is open Sat & Sun and closes Monday.
There is absolutely no way you could operate 5pm till 8pm and pay the bills let alone make a living. just wondering if lots of the customers who bemoan shops not opening late are the same ones who will buy online unless they've got an emergency and then that's the only time they use their local shop and then moan the shop isn't willing to bend over backwards for them.
If it gets to the point where everyone in the industry is expected to work evenings and weekends then fewer people will be attracted to work in it so those that do will demand more pay which will mean higher prices or same pay and less skill or knowledge which customers will moan about.
The attitude that people chose to work in retail therefore must meet my needs whilst I work a 9to5 is very me me me. Last time I looked banks were only open 9 till 5 and everyone uses them.
A lot of people can easily get in during 9 to 5 hours as they work locally, are self-employed, work shifts, finish early on fridays or even get a day off in the week. The amount of people that can't get in during 9 to 5 and don't want to wait till saturday is very minimal I imagine.
Last time I looked banks were only open 9 till 5 and everyone uses them.
really?
I don't think I've been in a bank for years, I didn't realise that most people still used them
Can't say I'll make a special effort to either 🙂
What exactly do you need on a Sunday that you can't buy on a Saturday?
Sunday lunch
pint in the pub
petrol to get home from the trails
B&B
bit's for the bike I just broke so I can get back to the car
to support my LBS instead of buying online
sunday paper
pint of milk 'cos the visitor drank it all
shall I go on?
Last time I looked banks were only open 9 till 5 and everyone uses them.
We don't exactly have much choice. How do you visit the bank when you need to if it's only open when you're at work?
Everywhere shuts at 5 or 5.30. I find it baffling as they close just as their potential customers are leaving work. The LBSs I use most are Edinburgh bike coop and Evans because they stay open justlong enough for me to get there after work. Infact most shops I use are those that open later than 5.30. Weekends are precious, I don't want to spend my time shopping if I can help it.
Most smaller places are run by the owner and they can do what they like but if it was me I'd shut on Tuesday, go biking on empty trails then open on Saturday or Sunday. I'd also open late one day and and have a late night opening. And if you are really crazy, open at 7am one day, then people can call in before work.
opening longer hours/more days just dilutes the same customers you'd have anyway, IME.
I had a wonderful customer a little while ago that wanted to see me on a Saturday, but asked if I could stay open a bit later so he could stay in bed a bit longer & then still enjoy his 2pm lunch at the Hilton, after all it was 'his day off'! I asked if he could get out of bed earlier or have lunch a little later.
He did rearrange his lunch in the end, came to see me & after me telling him there was no discount came back & offered 20% less than the asking price...
we work on 10%, I'm so happy I didn't bother to waste my time staying late, also happy that I managed to block him in for a hour whilst I searched for the lost keys to the car blocking him in...
05-five - MemberWhat exactly do you need on a Sunday that you can't buy on a Saturday?
Sunday lunch
pint in the pub
petrol to get home from the trails
B&B
bit's for the bike I just broke so I can get back to the car
to support my LBS instead of buying online
sunday paper
pint of milk 'cos the visitor drank it allshall I go on?
Last time I looked banks were only open 9 till 5 and everyone uses them.
We don't exactly have much choice. How do you visit the bank when you need to if it's only open when you're at work?
I really hope your having a laugh, or are you really that much of a t wat?
I don't think Mr 05five has a clue what running a small business is like
Quite an assumption.
Even if that were true, it doesn't hurt to consider another point of view, especially your customer's! Every shop/town is different of course and the clever retailer adapts to suit the area/sets up in the right place, but if the town's busy (like mine today), why shut? May be less hours, but at the right time would pay the bills when you're competing against the 24 hr shops and mechanics who are available for those that work 9-5. I know in my group we use a chap who is open in the evenings because we all work 9-5. I'd be in the LBS during the week if I could, weekends are for riding.
Sunday lunch
pint in the pub
petrol to get home from the trails
B&B
bit's for the bike I just broke so I can get back to the car
to support my LBS instead of buying online
sunday paper
pint of milk 'cos the visitor drank it allshall I go on?
lol!
I'd also open late one day and and have a late night opening. And if you are really crazy, open at 7am one day, then people can call in before work.
Yeah loads of people cannot get away 9-5, seems like a good idea to give them a chance.
going back to special77's comments at the top, what a load of rubbish and i'm offended by the comment.
All the types of places you mention are well known for having staff who lack any knowledge and don't care about their job, maybe bike shops want staff who are experienced, skilled and knowledgeable but with that comes the inclination not to want to work un-social hours.
Now I feel that i am quite knowledgeable, really care about my job, and work lots of unsociable hours, in fact i've only just finished now, am working all weekend and my days off are always midweek.
Please don't use such sweeping statements and think about people who earn reasonable money in a profession they enjoy that isn't a 9-5 monday-friday boring office job.
rant over!
+1 for abennell
I've worked: in retail, split shifts as a chef, 6-2 2-10 shifts in a factory, run a small business and 8-5 in an office. My wife's worked in hotels (shifts) all her life. We are experienced, skilled and knowledgeable like many others with un-sociable hours / working for large companies.
If you're making enough money, then fine, no need to think outside the box. But look at most self-made retail millionaires, they'll tell you they worked all hours to get where they are and it wasn't by following the crowd and not adapting to their customers/carving a niche.
We open at 10am Mon till Sat. Close at 6pm although some Thursdays we stay open long. Or rather till 7-ish. So far we've been closed on Sundays. Why no longer hours? Because the takings wouldn't pay for my tea, let alone the electricity used up.
Two of my mates have opened a bike shop in Frodsham. They intend open late on Thursday and close on Sunday because Sunday is for riding and they are enthusiastic riders. Riders, such as the hardcore masses on here... should undestand that surely, especially when there are only two of them running the place. Looking forward to a ride all week and then pulling your bike out the shed Sunday morning to find that last descent in the Peak last weekend shredded your pads and you need a replacement is the action of a numbnut.
The shop we used to work in used to close on Sunday - when it went to 7 day opening there was no increase in takings, just spread over more days, and the closest competitor to that shop has always been closed Sundays and remains so.
If your a good bike shop with a good customer base, then they will make the effort to come in when your open. If its an emergency on a Sunday morning, CRC wont get the bits to them any faster!
05-five - Member
But look at most self-made retail millionaires, they'll tell you they worked all hours to get where they are and it wasn't by following the crowd and not adapting to their customers/carving a niche.
Why should anyone put their personal, social and family life onto some second-tier footing in order to make a few extra quid. When you grow up, you'll realise that there is more to life than the pursuit of money - including enjoying life and good health while you have it.
[url= http://www.tredz.co.uk/bike_shops.aspx ]Wish this place was my LBS[/url]
[url= http://www.brianrourke.co.uk/opening-hours-t-6.html ]This used to be my brothers LBS[/url]
We certainly made use of the Sunday trading and didn't miss Thursday. So it is possible (for some shops) to be smart with their hours. 9:30 - 6pm would've been even better.
Why should anyone put their personal, social and family life onto some second-tier footing in order to make a few extra quid. When you grow up, you'll realise that there is more to life than the pursuit of money - including enjoying life and good health while you have it.
You are right of course, bringing up millionaire retailers was silly, I wouldn't make those sacrifices, otherwise why aren't I running a successful business! It doesn't have to be more hours though, just smarter hours. But if 9-5 Monday to Sat is the only time experienced, skilled and knowledgeable people can work then so be it. If everyone else is putting family on a second-tier footing then I'll be sure to remind my wife when she finishes her shift and I'll call the policeman and fireman I know too.
"[i]Your LBS[/i] - the 4th emergency service"
Nah - can't see it catching on.
Apologies to one of my LBS, it seems they announced new opening times this week 10-7pm hooray!
I'm doing a lot of what's suggested - open most of the time apart from Easter Sunday, asking what customers want, competing with Internet, running niche brands with lots of demo bikes. How clever am I? ??Oh, hang on. My demo bikes come back damaged so it costs a bomb to run them and the profit on bikes is minimal in most cases anyhow. Competing with Internet means I'm selling stuff for less than I bought it, people get to try stuff out so they can buy it on Internet anyhow, I get bikes etc in for folk, they ride them, make them second hand, want them then go AWOL and I open Sundays, when I make £20 turnover. I then close on a Wednesday with my new found wealth. The industry needs a shake-up big time and one small retailer cannot do it on its own. ?I'm poorer than I've ever been but I love it and I work with great folk and get to talk bikes and trails with great, loyal customers regularly. If I could pay a few of my bills from doing it, it would be even better!
profit on bikes is minimal
So what would a small retailer expect to make off a £1k bike?
I think if people read my posts properly they'll find that I said many of the shops/industries that open late are 'well known' for having staff that aren't knowledgeable and don't care or where the srevice is poor, I never said everyone that works in these industries or late shifts was useless.
Think Halfords, B&Q, Curry's, Dixon's, etc etc etc
As for needing to shop 24/7 another way to do things is plan your life a little and get things in advance before you need them.
many places you mention are food shops, petrol stations etc etc You don't require special knowledge, experience and skills form the staff in these so they will tend to be staffed by either young people sytarting out in life or semi-retired people etc etc. The moment you have bright, intelligent, skilled and knowledgeable staff and tell them they need to work late shifts and weekends in order to keep customers happy many will leave the industry and lead to poorer standards of service in LBS's.
My partner teaches so the thought of working saturdays and sundays every week would be ridiculous, I'd never see her. Why should I do that just to accommodate a few people?
Rant Over
competing with Internet means I'm selling stuff for less than I bought it,
You will know this but... you need to stop that immediately.
So what would a small retailer expect to make off a £1k bike?
Depends on the brand but less than you think.
1/3?