Current lease (Octavia estate) is up in July and similar type vehicles have gone up a fair amount to lease (+ £130 a month) so I’m contemplating buying used instead with a view to having a vehicle that we own once the loan period is up.
We have 2 growing boys (10 and 6) who both like cycling as do my wife and I. The youngest currently has a 20’’ which fits in the boot well with luggage but that will soon end when he ends up on a 24’’. I would just look at another large estate but there will always be compromises with fitting 4 bikes on the roof.
What are tow bar mounted carriers like to live with in relation to roof carriers?
A lot of my mates have vans and seem to love them. They seem to make a lot of sense for the sort of family trips we tend to do.
Currently have standard bikes but I can see in the future ending up with an e bike of some sorts.
Seen Toyota proace verso / Peugeot Citroen equivalent. Looks to be lots of issues with ad blue tank faults. Transporters but all seem high mileage / a fair bit older than the former and don’t seem to be without their own reliability issues from my mates experiences.
Or we could look at something like a Kia ceed estate which will have 4/5 year warranty left but we may really struggle for space at times.
What would folk recommend? Realistically would have about £20000 to spend which crazily doesn’t really seem to get you much at all when you start looking round. We do about 12000 miles in the Skoda as it stands.
I have asked a couple of mechanics that I know (one a diesel specialist who works on lots of vans and the other who we take our second run around to) and neither could recommend anything modern due to reliability problems.
I've got a Merc Viano XLWB, (64 plate, last model before they chnaged to the V Class). I love it but appreciate you might want newer, and it would be good to have a Euro 5 minimum. I would definitely recommend a van but for us we also need a small car for day to day running about. Mine can have 8 seats and it still has a massive boot, but with the back row removed I can fit bikes in standing upo on a fork mount and it works really well. I put front wheels in a wheel bag.
Tow bar moutned bike racks are great, if you can get one that works with the boot doors of your van/car. I have the Atera Strada, which some people don't like, but if I turn the bars on the last bike I can tilt/slide it out of the way of my tail gate completely.
So you're looking at either a crew-cab van or a large estate?
The main thing I miss about my van is the ability to park up and leave it with the bikes out of view in the back, gave much more flexibility for holidays etc.
If your two lads are likely to be/stay into cycling then a van will undoubtedly be more practical, but will you be bothered by the 10-15mpg or so less that you'll get?
And tow-bar carriers are waaaay better than roof ones IME. I've taken the roof rack off my Octavia now and just sling the bike in the boot. Wish the car had a tow bar, but not worth fitting one at it's value.
Well you could get an older van without adblue/ not euro 6, but then you would have to consider LEZs, Crit'Air areas, etc. Does any of your driving involve those? I would also expect plenty of age-related big bills too, so not sure what the age/reliabilty sweetspot is. Vans are massively useful though if you do a lot of 4 up bike trips. Just factor in a bit more for maintenance costs compared to a petrol car and go for what suits you. I expect there will now be plenty of recommendations for transit customs, transporters etc, as I see them all at trail centres and races.
I bought an Octavia VRS 245 estate last year. Didn't want the newest version due to the giant tablet dashboard and widely reported electrical gremlins.
We fitted a removable tow bar and use a Buzzrack bike carrier. I much prefer the tow bar rack to roof bars. The only downside compared to a van is lack of security but when I'm traveling alone the bike goes in the boot anyway. As you already know, the boot is massive.
Vans are cool, I've had loads in the past but it's so much nicer to get around in a car. Vans are currently astronomically overpriced and as you say, modern ones are riddled with reliability issues.
There's literally nothing I don't like about the Skoda and I think we'll be keeping it for a long while yet.
I've been spoiled for too long with owning vans for the past 18 years and it's made me blinkered I'm sure. I can't see past a van for my type of use even though it's compromised in many ways.
They make life easy for biking even if it's just a day trip - even more so when adding family into the mix. Four of us plus bikes quickly and easily loaded inside a dual-cab Transit Custom, no worries about security or stopping off enroute, no nice interior to mess up, useful post-ride changing space (daughters appreciate this the most). Great for holidays too - we'd have to seriously rationalise our packing if we didn't have the van to throw it all inside.
Watching another family at GT at the weekend spend ages dismantling bikes and squeezing them into the boot/roof of an Octavia made me appreciate our van even more.
Four of us plus bikes quickly and easily loaded inside a dual-cab Transit Custom,
Take a look at the Custom Tourneo instead, more car-like plus far greater flexibility (move seats in/out/around unlike the Combi vans where it's a fixed bench) and all have tailgates.
Four of us plus bikes quickly and easily loaded inside a dual-cab Transit Custom,
Take a look at the Custom Tourneo instead, more car-like plus far greater flexibility (move seats in/out/around unlike the Combi vans where it's a fixed bench) and all have tailgates.
Yep, the Tourneo's a good shout for less of a compromise than a full van. Nicer interior trim both a positive (more car-like, refined) and negative (nicer to mess up with mucky/pointy bikes). Less secure than a dual-cab though as bikes on display. Plus I like having the bulkhead to keep luggage/bikes separate from the passenger area, but it depends what use folk intend with van vs people carrier version. Also not subject to van speed limits, if that matters.
I've never kept a car more than 3 years but got a T5 in 2014 and only replaced it in 2019 as a mate was selling his nicer one which I've had ever since. I wouldnt be without one as the convenience is excellent for a family with bikes.
I made big deal of getting my first one with a tailgate and I can't remember a single time I used it as a rainshelter. It's easy enough to get a barn door canopy, and barn doors don't extend back so far and you can just open one, etc.
If you do look at the Tourneo's, I have been considering the VW Maxi Caddy Life, some haven't been mobility modded and fit a big enduro bike in with wheels on. Not as much head room as a van, but drives like a car and isnt a van.
I've just been through the same and ended up with a Tourneo Custom for pretty much spot on your budget.
I had spent the last couple of years trying to decide between Transit, Transit Crew Cab, Tourneo or Transporter and am really pleased with my final decision. When finances allowed a purchase earlier this year I quickly discounted the Transporter as they are stupid money for a good one and the crew cabs are just a van with some windows and a couple of seats bolted to the floor. The Ford version has a much nicer seating area. Nearly bought a Transit CC but the lack of removable rear seats put me off. Liked the idea of a boggo van which I could fix up over time but it needed to be family friendly from the off so when a Tourneo came up locally for a decent price I went for it.
Didn't appreciate it at the time but the extra touches really make a difference over a van and make it more car like. Stuff like fully lined wheel arches, full carpets, great ventilation throughout, better interior trim and speakers front to back. It's a very comfortable vehicle to shift all our stuff about and makes such a difference when you can chuck in scooters, bikes, dogs, etc all together without having to choose what to take. They are classed as a car on the V5 too so normal speed limits, no congestion zone charges in Bradford, Birmingham and others and you can take stuff to the tip without a permit! All minor stuff but it adds up. I'd highly recommend one, they're ace!
you can take stuff to the tip without a permit!
Underrated benefit 😀
Vans are currently astronomically overpriced
Prices are actually shifting downwards at last, but some dealers (and private sellers) are still a bit ambitious obvs.
We had a Caddy Maxi and it was perfect. Seating in the back is super quick to remove and replace. The older cart spring type have tiny wheel arches and it gives a surprisingly large space inside. 2.0tdi was very reliable and long service intervals.
We bought a Tourneo Custom LWB Titanium + back in 2018. Came with all the extras. Can seat 4 adults, four 29ers with wheels on and still loads of room. Probably one of the best bike vehicles we have had.
Anyone had experience of putting a tandem in a Caddy Maxi?
Been through this discussion repeatedly over the last few years. It came down to working out how much time we would need a van and the amount of time we would prefer driving a car. Ultimately we went for a superb estate as it has more space but drives well and isn't a van. Sure there are times when space is restricted but it was the right balance for us
We have been through all this with kids and bikes and got a van back in 2012 - a T5 Kombi. We still have it, but our requirements are less now so most of the time it isn't hauling huge amounts of kit. We could realistically now drop down to a Caddy or similar size smaller van with a removable 2nd row of seats.
But in the OP's position, yeah, I would get a combi van of some sort. If I was choosing again now, it would be euro 6, lwb and have rear speakers if possible.
If you do look at the Tourneo's, I have been considering the VW Maxi Caddy Life, some haven't been mobility modded and fit a big enduro bike in with wheels on. Not as much head room as a van, but drives like a car and isnt a van.
Are you thinking of Tourneo Connect rather than Custom? You aren't getting 4 people + 4 bikes in a Caddy/Connect/etc without a load of messing about
Tourneo custom (not connect) would be my choice, again I've been looking at this for a while. Just make sure the wet belt has either been inspected or replaced. I'd had my eye turned by the Toyota proace verso (& Citroen/ Peugeot), so it's interesting to hear about the ad blue issues. One thing worth mentioning are (large not car based) vans (including crew cabs) have to obey some lower speed limits and people carriers are the same as cars
The other options usually touted are the Nissan Elgrand & Hyundai i800, both struggle to be as flexible seat wise and high floors limiting space IMO
If your two lads are likely to be/stay into cycling then a van will undoubtedly be more practical, but will you be bothered by the 10-15mpg or so less that you'll get?
I was getting around 35 mpg out of a LWB transporter T32. And about 30-32 towing the caravan (no great aero losses going from van to van plus caravan!). No idea how you get to 12-15mpg.
I made big deal of getting my first one with a tailgate and I can't remember a single time I used it as a rainshelter. It's easy enough to get a barn door canopy, and barn doors don't extend back so far and you can just open one, etc.
And we used ours almost all the time, either as the basis for a sun shade or a rain shelter.
Though car parks we were at tended to be massive with loads of space... No squeezing into a Fiat 500 sized space.
As a family of 5 bikers and paddlers we went Touran - Galaxy - V70.
The Galaxy was superb - had it when kids were between 10 and 17. It took five of us, 5 bikes and two canoes to south of France for a fortnight...Huge space, a bit of a faff to pack when fully loaded, and bikes are visible on towbar rack.
The V70 worked well as kids began to leave home, drive out smaller car, or opt not to come out days out with parents...for 4 it was amazingly capable and remains the best car I've owned.
We now own lwb camper and I can't say with 5 of us it would have been that much better - to store bikes inside means less habitation space as a day van, more habitation means less of bikes inside...and the cars were much cheaper to buy and run.
In typical STW fashion of recomending what you have got
VW T5, mine is a factory Kombi swb, twin sliding doors with opening windows, tailgate with glass, 6 seats, fully insulated, sound deadened, ply lined and carpeted
I can fit 4 adult bikes in mine by removing their front wheels, 6 bmx's with nothing removed, plus all our kit
For weekends away i can remove all the rear seats, fit two bikes down one side, a fishing bed down the other side, a front cab matteress for the boy plus all the kit we need
If its just me its so much easier to just chuck the bike in the back and go somewhere, no need to faff around with towbars, racks or putting rear seats down to slide the bike in (did it that way for years)
Even spur of the momment things like the other week me and the boy decided we wanted to go for a quick ride but were also hungry, ordered a pizza from Dominos, chucked the bikes in the van, collected the pizza, 5 min drive to our destination, ate the pizza in the back of the van with the bikes and then went for a ride
Van prices are silly compared to cars but they are much more practical for bike families, i paid 15k for mine
I did look at transits before i bought the T5, nothing wrong with a tranny but the wet belt in the newer versions really put me right off and the previous generation to the wet belt Tranny didnt have the nicest interior in my eyes
Usual recommendation here for the Japanese MPVs. Economy isn't great but at 12000 miles a year there's £500 in fuel cost between a 40mpg diesel and a 30mpg petrol, and one turbo/injector/adblue issue could eat that. £360 tax, no speed limit or using the tip issues. Proper versatile rear seats (that you can sleep on), opening windows, AC, cupholders, etc in the rear, electric sliding doors, etc.
My kids are getting bigger (now on 24" / 20" wheels) but both of those bikes, my 29er and the three of us can fit in our Stepwgn with no wheels off faff.
I sometimes look at "proper" vans but the prices, basic spec and cleaner diesel issues all put me off. More likely to upgrade to a newer bigger JDM bus instead.
We now own lwb camper and I can't say with 5 of us it would have been that much better - to store bikes inside means less habitation space as a day van, more habitation means less of bikes inside...and the cars were much cheaper to buy and run.
I can totally see this and I think it's why a lot of camper people go from a Trafic-size van to a Master-size van. But OP hasn't suggested he's looking to sleep in it, or even sit around making cups of tea in it.
Usual recommendation here for the Japanese MPVs. Economy isn't great but at 12000 miles a year there's £500 in fuel cost between a 40mpg diesel and a 30mpg petrol, and one turbo/injector/adblue issue could eat that. £360 tax, no speed limit or using the tip issues. Proper versatile rear seats (that you can sleep on), opening windows, AC, cupholders, etc in the rear, electric sliding doors, etc.
That's an interesting perspective and I'm sure they're a great solution for some people. But I'd worry they combine that lower economy (even worse than a van) with not that much more space than a Galaxy - and the bikes are a bit less hidden than a proper van.
Is that unfair?
Unless I've misread, you're concerned about fitting four bikes on your roof.
Don't be, 135cm roof bars with Thule 598/591 easily fit four full size adult bikes. It's not an issue, even easier for family bikes.
Our family car lives with four bike rack on for 90% of its life. Ten minutes to load up after work is a godsend for grabbing riding time with the kids.
I dearly hope to never have to go back to towbar rack jenga again.
Having had all three options, a lot of people tend to remove front wheel when putting bike in van, so often takes longer once it's all strapped in than a roof rack. However much more secure.
When I had a towbar rack my bike would get covered in road crap throughout the winter, would not use again unless i had no other option.
If I could afford it, I'd have a LWB kombi van. Tourneo type van loses a lot of space in the back with all extra its to make it more comfortable, and also you wouldn't want to lean a bike against it as it'd get damaged. And I will get one once financially viable again. however roof racks suffice at the moment.
That's an interesting perspective and I'm sure they're a great solution for some people. But I'd worry they combine that lower economy (even worse than a van) with not that much more space than a Galaxy - and the bikes are a bit less hidden than a proper van.
Is that unfair?
Mine certainly seems taller than a Galaxy inside (very low floor) which is what matters - so can get bikes in upright. The tinted windows on mine make it hard to see in but it also has curtains, ones on all the rear windows from Japan and I added a cab curtain behind the front seats for sleeping/changing etc.
I'd worry a lot more about a van being targeted for tool theft, most seem trivially easy to break into unless you add lots of extra deadlocks.
However much more secure.
This is the biggy for me these days - sadly. We've just got a long wheelbase Berlingo (with very dark rear windows) but tomorrow I'll chuck the bike in and head off somewhere, they (hopefully) find a good bakery and leave the bike unattended without a care in the world. Whereas I'd be far more concerned about doing so when the bike was on a rack.
It's doesn't do what the OP needs though. We've got the same mix of bikes, but 1 is an ebike so that aint going on the roof. 2 in the back, 2 on top is what we've settled on for now (with the expectation of going bigger in a couple of years)
I'd recommend a VW Caravelle, but ours is so broken it blew up one of the local van centre's diagnostic units when they plugged it in last week having had it succumb to a minor engine bay fire while taking the dogs to the sitter's. In hindsight I should have revved the crap out of it until it was well away, waited 20 minutes and then called the fire brigade.
Ideal MTB / family adventure vehicle if only it was made by Lada or FSO or Hindustan or anyone at all who can actually screw a vehicle together with slightly more care than VW.
Currently awaiting a technician from the factory in Hannover to give the van centre instructions on how to connect a new diagnostics unit in such a way that my van doesn't lobotomise it.
The first Tiguan VW gave us as a replacement threw some warning lights then failed to proceed. The second one is less bad, but rattles like an Istanbul taxi. VW now ≠ VW of reputation.
I did look at transits before i bought the T5, nothing wrong with a tranny but the wet belt in the newer versions really put me right off and the previous generation to the wet belt Tranny didnt have the nicest interior in my eyes
The latest PHEV Transit Custom looks OK - 2.5l petrol with hybrid assist kicking out 230bhp, or 30 miles or so on leccy. OK on long journeys, you aren't going to return much better than the diesel van, but it's cleaner and no wet belt. The interiors are ok too and prices don't seem horrific at circa £35k for the specced up 'Sport' model. Crew cabs are a bit more
Having had all three options, a lot of people tend to remove front wheel when putting bike in van, so often takes longer once it's all strapped in than a roof rack. However much more secure.
When I had a towbar rack my bike would get covered in road crap throughout the winter, would not use again unless i had no other option.
If I could afford it, I'd have a LWB kombi van. Tourneo type van loses a lot of space in the back with all extra its to make it more comfortable, and also you wouldn't want to lean a bike against it as it'd get damaged. And I will get one once financially viable again. however roof racks suffice at the moment.
Just picking up on the point about removing a wheel to fit bikes in vans. I found a standard van a pain securing bikes with straps etc when keeping both wheels on. I actually find it better having each bike mounted securely with a fork/axle mount - keeps bikes away from the vans sides and from each other, so much less chance of damage to bikes or van. No other securing required. Takes seconds to remove front wheels.
I went further and built a platform against the bulkhead: storage below (essentials for 'day van' use - gas stove, kettle, etc and a portapotti, plus bike wash etc) and multiple fork mounts on top. Fork attachments are on sliding mounts so I can accommodate different bike combos without anything clashing. 5 bikes easily with space for more. Also 2 x 12" subwoofers and a big amp under there but that's another story.
An old photo as I've tweaked the setup slightly since, but 5 bikes in the van:
And there are two bikes in here already with another two still to go in, along with more camping stuff...
Not a Caddy, but I had a Galaxy which would just take the tandem, upright, if I removed the middle L and rear L seats.
An old photo as I've tweaked the setup slightly since, but 5 bikes in the van:
@ally. I know you have posted the photo before and I think I commented then too but I have no idea how you get the front axle done up with that config. You must be more agile and thinner than me 😉
The latest PHEV Transit Custom looks OK - 2.5l petrol with hybrid assist kicking out 230bhp, or 30 miles or so on leccy. OK on long journeys, you aren't going to return much better than the diesel van, but it's cleaner and no wet belt. The interiors are ok too and prices don't seem horrific at circa £35k for the specced up 'Sport' model. Crew cabs are a bit more
Certainly could be the best replacement for whatever I buy now, when I come to replace that in 10 years 😀
Even if the battery range is 20 miles in the real world, that would cover most of my current driving - and might make up for lower economy on the 400-mile round trip I do about once a month.
We have used bike shrouds for the last ten years. No damage to vans or to bikes in that time. In the Tourneo they just lean against the side and each other with one strap around the lot. In the camper garage they don't even need a strap
I went through this exact process last year. Ended up with Tourneo Custom Titanium X - there are still compromises vs a full van (e.g. getting the lovely leather muddy) but I'm still happy with the decision after a year. That being said I do have an EV as a run around.
The problem with tailgates is they mean you need lots of space behind you to open them, so a PITA in car parks and towns.
Aldi throw over waterproof seat covers are your friend
@ally. I know you have posted the photo before and I think I commented then too but I have no idea how you get the front axle done up with that config. You must be more agile and thinner than me 😉
With difficulty 😀
No issue with 3 bikes, a little trickier getting the 4th one in, and a 5th bike is a total PITA (5th bike never in usually - was just for pics to show it could be done).
Certainly could be the best replacement for whatever I buy now, when I come to replace that in 10 years 😀
That latest PHEV Transit Custom 2.5 is the most likely future candidate for me too, it seems the least worst option. Had our current Transit 8 years and hoping to have it at least the same time again, so hopefully there'll be more choice by then.
There are 4 adult mountain bikes, 6 months-worth of cheap french booze, clothes, food and tools for 2 weeks in the Alps in this picture. And some random IKEA furniture bought on the way home.
SWB T5 Komb highline. Averages just shy of 40mpg.
Nowt wrong with it. You won’t regret getting one.
Thanks all for the replies. Some real food for thought.
Something like the tourneo custom would be ideal I think but the idea of the wet belt puts me off a bit. From the sounds of it it’s a big job (£1000 plus) and needs doing every 5 years or so.
I do find it easy throwing the bikes on the roof. Would make it harder with 4 though I would think? Presumably bars would need to be turned 90 degrees too and carriers mounting alternating ways? Any issues with pedals catching? I know the bars on the Octavia are 118cm. Whether that’s long enough to fit 4 carriers (Thule 598) or it would take longer bars I’m not sure?
We went to France last year camping for 2 weeks and just about managed for space with someone else taking the 20’’ bike. That was with a smaller roof box and 2 bikes on the roof. Would run out of space with 3 bikes.
I guess a similar trip with 3/4 bikes would necessitate a tow bar mounted rack.
The wetbelt thing is certainly an issue. That being said, it's a known problem and you hear so much about it as it's the most popular van platform in the UK. I just factored in i'd be doing it every 6 years / 60k miles. Mobile people will do it for less than a grand. All vans have their problems mind.
I’ve always mounted the bikes facing forwards with the mounts at the bulkhead end, but since getting e-bikes I’ve decided I will be swapping to this configuration as it’s a PITA lifting them up and struggling int eh back of my SWB Transit Custom Double cab.
I was living in fear of the wet belt time bomb, but I’ve just accepted it’s a decent service yearly and a cambelt change between 50 and 60k for now as I can’t afford to buy a new van. I’ve spoken to a few owners who use theirs as work vans and with regular servicing and belt changes have made it to 180k with no problems.