Don’t use an open flame. I wait for a dry day and run an extension out the window.
The plan was to place it in an old roasting tin. I will keep an eye out for a cheapo fryer.
Don’t burn your house down Moley!
That's why I have a fryer, no open flames or hotplates for me!
Assume Putoline flashpoint is the same or higher than that of cooking oil.. hope so anyway!
I will keep an eye out for a cheapo fryer
Our neighbourhood has a Facebook community where people are always giving away unwanted kitchen and household stuff. I put an add up and got a free fryer from a house round the corner within the day.
Argos are doing one for £14.99 so I’ll just grab one of those and be done with it.
I use a small slow cooker rather than a fryer. It is slower and unlike a fryer there's no basket for draining the chains. Instead I took the chains and wire them together so I can lift them all together.
I'd buy a mini fryer in preference but the slow cooker is another option and people are always giving them away.
I doubt you could actually set fire to it, at most you might be able to sustain a small flame on the surface with a bit of help, or a small explosion if you contained the vapours in an enclosed space (i.e. left the lid on).
It's basicly a very smelly candle, without a wick. Candles dont explode or burn without a wick.
If using a fryer, try and get a mini one that holds less than 1l of oil (i.e. a tin of putoline).
A trangia stove works well for melting it. A nice low power to melt it slowly.
I think might get a trangia pan and decant 1/4 tin into that, might speed up melting it. And as insaid over 10 years mine has softened so either less heating of the wax or not contaminanting the whole tin might be a good idea.
You certainly could set fire to it. Most things have a flashpoint. Cooking oil isn't exactly flammable and yet when you leave a chip pan on the fire it starts to smoke, and when the flashpoint is reached that's when all that vapour will ignite.
Guessing that because Putoline is wax it has a heavier molecular weight than chip fat and hence will have a much higher flashpoint, however it might have more volatile additives. Having said that if they've been recommending using an open flame for years it can't be that volatile.
Slightly different question but what does everybody use to clean chains?
I melt candlewax mixture over an open flame, but keep a fire blanket handy. Thing is, you are only heating it up to melting point, which will be 80C or less, far too low to cook chips in. Plus there are no chips causing bubbles and a potentially flammable aerosol. The major risk is of an upset causing spillage of a puddle of wax which catches fire I think. Which is not going to be nice on your workbench, even less on your trousers. So outdoors on a dry day is preferable.
ETA also, of course, molten wax is used for recreational purposes (albeit low melting point types, lower than candles), though I have not tried it myself.
It smokes above ~210C.
But i used a trangia for years and never managed to set fire to the wax.
There's a few webpages confusing flash point and auto ignition, i would have thought the auto ignition temp for parafin would be low, possibly even near ambient (decreases with molecular weight) so the fact it smokes at 210 (arround its flash point) to me is implying that any vapour being produced is combusting but there's insufficient energy to sustain boiling and create a flame. Its a candle without a wick.
Chip pan fires are different, theres an external heat source, and the oil is being stripped with water from the chips which lowers the partial pressure and produces flamable vapours. That would be my thinking anyway.
I honestly can’t understand why it’s not more widely adopted
"The plan was to place it in an old roasting tin. I will keep an eye out for a cheapo fryer."
"That’s why I have a fryer, no open flames or hotplates for me!"
"You certainly could set fire to it."
"I melt candlewax mixture over an open flame, but keep a fire blanket handy"
hmmmmm...I know right, it's a bloody mystery 😉
sightly different question but what does everybody use to clean chains?
Putoline, the grit just sinks to the bottom of the pan under the basket.
See my comment above yours about trouser spillage 😮
Are we still talking about a pot of putoline or a result of using the more recreational candlewax?
Well, a wick is a wick...
No need to clean the chain - the molten wax does it for you and a previously waxed chain is clean anyway
nickc - its really simple in fact
goes like this for me:
Put tin on hob, gas on high
Take chain off bike
Put chain in tin
When its all nice and runny and bubbling away take tin off heat and take into workshop
fish chain out hang it over the tin
When its cold put chain back on bike
Run the chain thru a cloth a couple of times
Chip pan fires are different, theres an external heat source
So there is in the Putoline scenario.
I've been using Putoline for a couple of years now, across 4 different bikes including mtb's, a commuter and my summer roadie. Here's my completely honest findings...
Pro's
- Chain is lubricated for yonks. On my summer roadie (currently doing 100ish miles a week) I can't remember the last time I waxed the chain
- Even on long, wet, muddy horrific offroad rides, the chain remains lubed throughout
- I think drivetrain wear has been reduced, but I've not been logging it or anything
Con's
- I was using Squirt before, and my drivetrain is definitely not as clean now
- If you don't wipe the excess off, it can build up on mech rollers
- If the wax gets on your clothes, it doesn't come off!!
- Setup cost (I bought a cheapo deep fat fryer)
Interesting Reading the Zero friction stuff, He's actually tested 'Molten speed wax' which I presume is similar to Putoline wax, but looking about online it effectively costs twice as much. A 1lb (454g) bag is of MSW ~£20 where 1kg of Putoline is ~£25 so by that measure and assuming similar performance Putoline wax must be close to double the VFM (he measured it as "cost per 10,000km")...
Another point he makes in the vid re: de-greasing agents/factory lubricants and using meths for a final rinse to be as sure as possible there's no residue/film preventing the lubricant adhering directly to the steel of the chain, that's an important one, I bet most people de-grease, let it dry off and then imediately apply their chosen lube...
Zero friction report (58 page *.pdf)
I rinse the chain in water with a little detergent to remove some of the grit it has picked up.
So there is in the Putoline scenario.
Only if you leave it on, there's no chips to cook so no need to leave it on once it's upto temperature.
Once you get to ~C20 Alkanes the flash point and autoignition points approach each other so I'm not sure what happens. But you're still well below the boiling point so there isn't a significant amount of vapor.
To start a chip pan fire you either need to get the oil much hotter than a deep fat fryer will let you (the flash point is the point at which the vapor will ignite, it doesn't mean there's enough vapor to sustain a flame) , or generate an aerosol that finds a source of ignition.
I'm on a course covering the thermodynamics of pool fires next month so I'll report back!
#biketartquestion - What's the appearance of the chain with putoline? Is it gunky/dirty looking as that would put me off.
Torrential rain + (old) Swinley + a lot of riders churning it up.
I think I remember that race, what a nightmare, loads gave up..............
TJ: how do you have to prep the chain? If it's a new chain, do you have to strip the existing lube (that it comes with from the shop)?
#biketartquestion – What’s the appearance of the chain with putoline? Is it gunky/dirty looking as that would put me off.
It does leave a mat black waxy coating, which transfers to the cassette too, but it doesn't accumulate.
Chain waxed, left to drip, then excess wiped off (wear thick heavy work gloves that won't melt or let the wax soak in, the red workgloves binmen wear work well).
TJ: how do you have to prep the chain? If it’s a new chain, do you have to strip the existing lube (that it comes with from the shop)?
I've always just thrown it in the wax and let it melt/dissolve off. But as I said earlier, mine is not as hard as it used to be so for the next batch I'll probably do it in a jam jar with petrol.
How does THIS wax differ from the melt & dip wax.
I used to use the above on racing motorcycles a decade ago & it was very good.
To start a chip pan fire you either need to get the oil much hotter than a deep fat fryer will let you
Assuming the thermostat hasn't bust or something...
Slightly different angle.
Over the last 5 years or more, I stopped degreasing new chains before use.
I used to soak in a degreaser and relive. Now, I only wipe over with some small amount of biodegradable degreaser on a cloth.
This keeps the original lubricant inside the chain rollers where it’s needed. I then use a light lubricant (UBS) on the outside of the chain. This is working well for me, the chain stays quiet, clean and problem-free.
Assuming the thermostat hasn’t bust or something…
Granted, but we're now getting into the realms of statistics and probability. Putoline isn't going to burst into flames.
Google it, the only references to putoline wax and fire I could find are this forum and people saying they wont use putoline because it might catch fire.
I'm tempted by TJ's offer. My ride is a bit neglected, her drivetrain has seen better days but I don't think it's too stretched but she would definitely benefit from a strip and wax. I'm a bit short of time these days so tend to just jump on and go for it.
Wd40 bike all conditions lube is all I use on drivetrain.
Is doing the wax thing in my small flat going to fill the place with a horrific lingering smell?
Slightly different question but what does everybody use to clean chains?
Rock n roll extreme blue here, no need to clean.
"Put tin on hob, gas on high
Take chain off bike
Put chain in tin
When its all nice and runny and bubbling away take tin off heat"
Wouldn't be (able to) riding bikes for a couple of weeks if I tried this on our hob....
When we did this for motorbike chains, we used a camping stove, old pan, outside the workshop.
Is doing the wax thing in my small flat going to fill the place with a horrific lingering smell?
Yes.
Trangia and gas stove outside unless you have understanding flatmates and a strong extractor over the hob!
Some people have tried plain parafin wax (candles) and ptfe powder which probably stinks a lot less than the disulphides or whatever the additives are in putoline.
Granted, but we’re now getting into the realms of statistics and probability.
I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm about to try it myself. I just won't leave the fryer unattended, that's all...
I think I'll stick to liquid lube then since I'd now be buying a camp stove and hanging around in my driveway cooking chains.
Edd China recommends XCP
https://xcp-protection.com/products/automotive/
https://xcp-protection.com/products/xcp-chain-lubricant/
Some people like flaer, some don't.
http://flaer.com/
Some people find Morgan Blue works OK for them.
If the wax gets on your clothes, it doesn’t come off!!
Back to this point: do you mean if you get molten wax in your clothes, or when it's cooled and in use?
Today's plan is to tidy up the garage so I can work safely then I'm going to de-grease the chain with paraffin, probably was with cleaner/water and then fry it up. Meanwhile give the bike a good was so I can see what effect the Putoline has on the drivetrain. Weather is filthy so I'll take it out and see how it goes.
I can take pics if anyone's interested.
The Putoline is a bit like a cross between cold butter and the thick sticky grease you get for CV joints. Almost tarry, rather than waxy. Smells like an old fashioned oily workshop. Not too bad but quite persistent.
When done, the chain is a bit like they come out of the box with the sticky stuff on it. But there's clearly more stuff in the rollers as it feels quite stiff. I cleaned the whole drivetrain on the road bike so it was sparkling. Should be able to see how mucky it gets now.
Did my chain today with the putoline wax. Used my camping stove and didn’t have any problems with it. Took a while to get it bubbling but it was a painless experience. it’s definitely going to get tested tomorrow night with the forecast for heavy rain all day.
I got a free small bottle of Smoove from a random online retailer so have put that on my new rainbow XX1 chain, was a bit alarming seeing it going on white but it's dried nice and clear.
If this stuff is no good I'll be trying out some Squirt. Lol. 😀
I rode with Putoline yesterday. It has rained biblically overnight and the trails were mostly actual streams. It was properly sodden. Although not as gritty muddy as usual due to the amount of.flowing water, but I didn't avoid any of the wet shitty bits I normally do.
Safe to say my drivetrain would have been gritty and graunchy as hell within minutes of that. But the chain stayed lubed and there was no grinding sensation. Twisting the chain in my fingers still sounded a bit gritty but when riding it was smooth as when I started. Which is already smoother than with normal lube due to how thick the stuff is.
Hosed the bike off when I got home, wiped it down with a sponge and bike cleaner, but didn't touch the chain. I just let water wash over it. Put it straight back in the garage, no chain cleaning or lubing needed, it's ready to go.
If the wax gets on your clothes, it doesn’t come off!!
Back to this point: do you mean if you get molten wax in your clothes, or when it’s cooled and in use?
Both.
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My fryer is bigger than that. There's just enough wax in there to cover the chain, so I might need a second tin in a year or so maybe.
Although - a new tiny fryer is cheaper than a tin of lube so...
You chain should not be feeling cruncy on twisting molgrips after one ride - did you leave it in the wax for a few mins and stir it a bit to get all the grit out? Have the wax nice and hot so its like wter?