Enduro Maxx on the bars here and recently swapped to a Joystick Mk 5 for the helmet.
Advantages of cable free - no top tube 'rubbing', able to remove them in less than 1 second and pocket it off the commuter when I park it up, 5 brackets on 3 bikes (2 mtb, 1 crosser, 1 commuter and wifey's commuter).
(Same bracket for both lights).
Our group has been running Exposure from the start, about 30 lights in the group I guess now. Yes we've had PCB problems (2), 'old' style bracket button problems (it use to pull off, they've modded the design) an LED failure and a battery failure but all as said all have been dealt with super quick with fantastic service.
One of our group dropped his from a height and broke it. Repaired and returned promptly at minimal cost.
Well, I seem to have let the lighting arms race pass me by...
AyUps on bars and lid for me. Simple (crude even), robust, never run out of juice (yet)
Whilst the QR release is initially impressive in it's simplicity either the mounting plate on the light or the mount itself always seems to get worn (or at least it has on both my Maxx-D's). This inevitably leads to irritating rattles -
i've got a enduro light that's 3+ years old. twice on and off the commuter most days and used on night rides once a week, most weeks. no problems at all with the mounting.
Advantages of cable free - no top tube 'rubbing'
Just saw an Exposure ad extolling the virtues of their 'CFD' - cable free design.
At the bottom it shows the remote switch it comes with......priceless.
At the bottom it shows the remote switch it comes with...
Yeah, that's another thing exposure do, which is quite a neat feature. Haven't seen any other light manufacturers do that.
And then they've got the piggy back cells, plus their entire range, so its really easy to get exactly what you want.
get me home function?
whats that about?
When exposure lights run out of battery they switch to the lowest mode. You get so many hours of that mode and the the light just fades to nothing. But you can still turn it up to high.
So you get caught out for a bit longer, instead of the light just dying and having to ride back in the dark, you ride back on low mode, which is fine for road or fire road or even trails taken slowly, and if you do have to do anything where you need the extra light, you can turn it back up for a minute or two.
My torch is all in one though (of course!) , more powerful than a joystick, arguably better made and cost almost half the price of the Exposure version. I don't actually need a helmet mounted light as the 601 is so bright but if I do, the Lockblock secures it very well and cost £6.I'm just not "getting" their pricey offerings.
I was having a chat with my mates about this today, and we decided it's a bit like people are with cars.
The various torches strapped to helmets are like Skodas. Everyone who has one always goes on about how its really a VW and just as good/powerful but cheaper.
The shed built lights are like Caterhams, super powerful, but a bit raw. Their owners will go on about how you don't need the frills of the big brands.
Lights like Exposures are the equivalent of a BMW. No comprimises, they are the best. I guess not everyone apreciates this, but at least theres a choice for everyone.
I have an Exposure....and a Hope....and a BMW....and an Orange 5
I think I am doomed 😆
....but, I wouldn't run the Joystick without the Hope on the bars 'cos I fall off. The BMW is a company car and we own a Ford. I ride my RL 853 more than the 5.
I might be saved ?? 😛
Ooer! the luminous fishy bastids won't appreciate those analogies.
I own a Maxx D, Enduro and a Race along with 3 Joysticks and can't fault any of them. Was out on a night ride with a mate who's just bought a SixPack and it's ****ing bright, a hell of a lot brighter than my Maxx D. When I get the chance the Maxx D will be going to be replaced by a SixPack.
3 joysticks? You'd look like this on the trail..
[img] 
[/img]
The various torches strapped to helmets are like Skodas. Everyone who has one always goes on about how its really a VW and just as good/powerful but cheaper.The shed built lights are like Caterhams, super powerful, but a bit raw. Their owners will go on about how you don't need the frills of the big brands.
Lights like Exposures are the equivalent of a BMW. No comprimises, they are the best. I guess not everyone apreciates this, but at least theres a choice for everyone.
Possibly the most sense anyone has made on STW - well put !
[i]The shed built lights are like Caterhams, super powerful, but a bit raw. Their owners will go on about how you don't need the frills of the big brands[/i]
My lights are not shed built.
😀
I don't have a shed. I assemble lights from the components I've designed, but which have been produced by global companies using up to date, computer controlled, machinery and equipment. Companies who supply markets and different industries all over the world, and they supply to me too.
For example, the company that supplies my housings also supplies the Aerospace industry, the Motorsport industry, the Auto industry, the petro-Chem industry.
They produce the highest quality work, employing some of the best people in the business, and amongst other disciplines, specialize in the machining of specialist materials, super alloys, etc.
As far as supplier credentials go, you can't realy get much better.
Assembly takes place in an electrical workshop, leased commercial premises.
I use High spec components and materials which in some cases probably exceed any other light around, including exposure, Lupine, Hope.
I am a bit bemused, on occassion, by those who pass comment on my lights, but who haven't actually had one in their hands, or better still, used one.
Of course, comments of that nature are just conjecture.
😉
[i]you don't need the frills of the big brands[/i]
Yeah, perhaps you don't. You pays your money, and you makes your choice.
I've always said that.
If someone wants to pay £100 more for a lupine Wilma 5, than they would for a Model 401, then thats their choice and they're welcome to it.
🙂
[i]Lights like Exposures[/i]
Not sure what that means, Exposure are the only ones making those type of lights, aren't they ?, ie, internal batteries.
So therefore.
[i]but at least theres a choice for everyone[/i]
wouldn't seem to be the case, unless you're including lights with external battery packs.
Currently, if you want an internal battery light, powerful enough for off road cycling, you can only go to Exposure.
It won't surprize anyone here that I've been watching this thread, and its clear that there is a variation in what people want and appreciate about certain light designs.
I am indifferent with regard to whether the battery is internally or externally located, as either solution could be considered to have its own [i]advantages[/i].
Leaving us to exercise our preferrances, based either on our own, or the experiences of others.
Cheers
😀
4 year old joystick and newish maxxd.
never had a serious problem. great lights well built. i wasd sent one faulty battery with my joystick and USE exchanged no questions asked so ime fab customer service
only -ve is that spare helmet mounts and bar mounts are fairly expensive.
would highly reccommend otherwise!
I had one of the original Enduros which finally gave up this year (would only hold 50% charge). Me being me, I only checked it a few days before 24/12 but an email and a couple of calls later I picked up a new Toro at the event all charged and ready to go plus got a decent 'trade in' for the old light.
I also had a Hope 2 for a while but that had a couple of issues that were cable/connector related and, whilst Hope's customer service was brilliant, I decided I couldn't be bothered with returning it if it went again and sold it on.
Well put Lum!
And he is right, the quality of the lights he makes is second to none. About as "shed made" as a Eurofighter.
never trust a man without a shed...
Luminous, interesting that you took my comments (which weren't aimed at you BTW) personally. Sorry if they upset you. I'd be pleased to be compared with something that's more interesting and in many ways better than it's competetion.
And I'm surprised at you Surf Mat for agreeing.
After your comments on car threads I thought you'd understand what I meant, you know, how BMWs are the best thing ever. Especially when you get annoyed with people giving opinions about cars they don't own.
You've got Exposure lights to compare your torch with haven't you?
Oh hang on, this is STW, where unfounded opinion is FACT
😉
O.
No offence taken.
🙂
Hence me posting smilies, etc.
[i]Oh hang on, this is STW, where unfounded opinion is FACT[/i]
Yeap !, just as I wrote:
[i]Leaving us to exercise our preferrances, based either on our own, or the experiences of others.[/i]
Ta
😀
O - what rattled your cage?
Yes I have seen and had a good look at Exposure lights - no I don't own one. Yes the 601 is more powerful than any Exposure apart from the six pack which it at least matches for output without being the size of a baked bean can. Yes some BMWs are good. Yes so are some Caterhams. I thought your analogies had some merits actually.
You seem to have taken offense and mine and Lum's post - I cannot see why?
Time of the month or something.
Just forget about it.
Strange - oh and some BMWs are crap 😉
i've got a enduro light that's 3+ years old. twice on and off the commuter most days and used on night rides once a week, most weeks. no problems at all with the mounting.
Likewise my Enduro Maxx is fine, I suspect it's more prevalent with the bigger and heavier Maxx-D given both mine suffered the same problem...
Several Joysticks, alll flawless, though I did manage to lose one on a snowy night ride in the Nidd Valley, doh, and currently a Diablo I with a Piggyback as a helmet light on steroids. Ansolutely superb, great light and beam pattern and never misses a beat. Also run a couple of Red Eyes - the Smart Port stuff is ace for that, though it does mean you can't run a Piggyback simultaneously.
Downsides? The charge times on the larger batteries are long(is), I've seen 12 hours or something quoted for a Six Pack and the Piggyback Triple seems to take for ages. Apparently better for the battery, but slow and hopeless if you're disorganised and forget to put them on charge. And on a really long ride, you can't change the batteries as you can with a remote battery light.
On balance though, mine have been superb. I like the Diablo as it's light enough for your head, but also makes a neat, easily portable bar light for the road etc.
I have recently got one of the new joystick mk5's, its a really great
light pretty much perfect beam for helmet mounting! I also have a "Shed"
made Troute Mini which is superb and the pair were perfect for Relentless at the weekend.
The joystick is way better than the Dx torches and Fenix tk11r2 and ld20 that i also own.
Just picked up this, can't wait to try it out.
[url= http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/5080258933_3cae633f1a_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfergson/5080258933/ ]Six Pack[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jamesfergson/ ]james_ferguson[/url], on Flickr
toons - jealous - me want one 😥
do I sell my enduro race maxx2 and joystick and upgrade??????
Toons.
Nice.
How big is it really ?, I can't find dimensions for them, could you run a ruler over it please.
Also, how much and where from.
😉
M2K
115mm length
55mm width
60mm height
It looks just a bit smaller than a can of beans.
My mate sells them in his shop, so got a nice discount 😉
Or you could have the same output using the same XPG LEDs with a light unit about the same size as a Hope 1 for £150 less 😉
It's light wars I tell ya!
I'm leaning towards a Toro Mk2 myself. Can't see myself with a bean can on the bars. Most of the trails I ride in the dark I know really well so I don't need a super-powerful light.
surf-mat
but then you have wires and a battery pack to deal with, combine the size of your batter pack and wires and head unit, and is it smaller than the bean can?!?!?!? i doubt it!
same size if not bigger, only difference bean (hehe) its all in one, which suits a lot of people, me included! i wouldnt need a six pack, i have a maxx daddy 960lumen, and its plenty and then some, and i even have a dx torch of 900 (its not, probably half of that) rated lumens on the helmet, but i dont really need it the 960 is plenty everywhere i ride (peaks etc)
not sure id need 1800 lumens to be honest, though if i was buying again after using my maxx daddy for a year non stop, id buy the latest one with 1200 no questions asked, it would be my first choice, its a perfect size, hardly any weight and its cable free! my mates first night ride with wired connection, and guess what, it broke, wires here there and everywhere are not for me, and not for alot of other people too!
601/Troutie battery pack fitting - secure velcro fixing under the bars or stem. Can vary how you fit it to suit your bars.
601/Troutie light unit fitting - top quality mount with quick release. Solid as a rock, fully adjustable and carrying a unit weighing only 130ish grams and about the size of an RC car motor.
Sixpack fitting - small mount on the bars under massive pressure from the near 500g weight of the unit.
601/Troutie charge time - 3 hours for 2.8mAh, 5-6 for 5.2mAh. Run times are 2hrs max and 3-4 hrs on max.
Six Pack charge time - a month
601/Troutie customer service - call/email, they sort everything out the next day
Six Pack -fairly quick but some have been left in the lurch for 2 weeks
601/Troutie battery issues/wears out - buy a new one from smudge.
Six Pack - ermmm, send it back.
601 remote switch connection - yes
Six Pack - not that I can see.
601/Troutie heat dissipation - covered in heat dissipating fins
Six Pack - where does the heat go?
601/Troutie price - £300ish
Six Pack - £500ish.
And what is the total weight of a 601 or trout light?
And even if the six pack does have a charge time of 12 hours (is it?), who cares? Doesn't really make any difference, how often do you go for a night ride 12 hours after the last one finished? And if you do, just turn it down to 960 lumens and you're fine for 10 hours.
I do like how you judge the mounts without ever having used one, very STW.
All exposure lights come with the ability to run an optional remote switch I think.
Never heard of an exposure light overheating. Maybe they're just better designed..
601/Troutie price - £300ish
Six Pack - £500ish
I enjoyed that. £405 is £500ish is it? And £350 is £300ish?
I also enjoyed the battery comments. When it goes wrong on a 601 or trout, you have to buy a new one, if it goes wrong on an exposure, they fix it for you for free..
Also just for fun, what mountain bike in the last mag did a group test on lights. the six pack came top, 4/5 stars "brutally powerful illumination... low weight single-can convenience and upgrade options". then the diablo, 4/5 stars "super powerful expandable helmet/race light for weight watchers". In 8th, the troute 7up, 3/5 "clumsy bag battery lets it down". 15th, troute 3up, 2.5/5 "light output and battery need refining".
Didn't see any luminous lights in the test though.
surf mat - clearly because he owns a 601 he believes it IS THE BEST and no big corporate make can compete!!!!
typical BMW driver.....
its all balls you bought it, you like it, we bought maxx daddys we like them, i enjoy just plugging mine on my bar and taking it off...you think your lights the dogs danglys, i think mine is! end of.
i say hats off to troutie and luminous, they look like good lights - i like the liberator a lot even though it looks like something from the 80s' but it packs a punch and alot of time and effort has gone into them...
however im sure equal time/money and effort has gone into the exposure stuff, and the against points you reel off for the exposure lights is ridiculous...
burn time is excellent, it weighs hardly a thing, charge time is done overnight so doesnt bother me (yes it could be shorter i guess, minor flaw), 960 lumens is plenty, overheating?!?!?!?!?? never heard that, got in touch with exposure about some sililcone bands for the new maxx daddy design as mine is the 960 one and sent me a couple of free new bands out FOC! all in all my customer service has been second to none, and ive had no issues with it at all in a year of constant usage!
as im pretty sure if these two guys werent on here flogging there lights, your next point of call would have perhaps been a ermmmmm exposure light would it not?!?!?!? of course you;ll disagree though i expect 😉 😆
Oh dear Realman. You aren't too good at this are you?
The Exposure mounts have often been criticised and are mentioned in the WMB test.
A LL can be had for £285.
A Six Pack is £450 on CRC with a discount.
If a Smudge battery fails, you get it replaced but batteries WEAR OUT over time - did you not know that? If Exposure will replace a worn battery FOC my name is Bob.
And why defend them so much? You run their pretty average little torch subsitute not a proper light. I ran a weedy Hope 1 but don't feel the need to jump in and defend all Hope lights.
A bit like a Corsa 1.2 owner "defending" a VXR8...
And as for the comments - Even Troutie is not sure why they tested his (now out of production) 7UP - it's the LL that's his trump card with more power and less weight. If they'd tested this, it would have been a different score completely. If the 601 had been tested, it would have done very very well. Guaranteed.
Oh and you mention me being "very STW" - I've SEEN a Six Pack and held it. I have TESTED a 601 and LL together. And yourself? Reading from a review without any other actual contact with the lights you are criticizing.
Your argument is weedier than your stature.
Didzy - BMW is a big corporation. Which kind of kills your "argument" stone dead. if I drove a niche little car, maybe it would carry some weight. And for the last time, many BMWs are CR4P.
yay - this is great craic!
I'm trading up from Enduro Maxx to LL3 for handlebars and from L&M Arc to Diablo for the helmet - so I'll be able to tell you the whole story when my LL3 arrives!
And even if the six pack does have a charge time of 12 hours (is it?), who cares? Doesn't really make any difference,
I would do. I get in at 6-7pm, I'm out the door again at 3:45/4am. One of the reasons I've gone with a trout this winter rather than a 6-pack / Maxx-D.
I also enjoyed the battery comments. When it goes wrong on a 601 or trout, you have to buy a new one, if it goes wrong on an exposure, they fix it for you for free..
No they don't, not always and it's not always as quick as you want or need. They also kept replacing the PCB in mine when I swear it was the battery that degraded.
Never heard of an exposure light overheating. Maybe they're just better designed..
The Maxx-D was meant to only be run on full when on the move - it would get hot in the hands within 10 minutes when I was using it as a torch...
Do Exposure use magic LEDs that don't get hot? Amazing!
A Six Pack is £450 on CRC with a discount.
£405 off wiggle with no discount.
On the luminous website it said the light was £350.
The Exposure mounts have often been criticised and are mentioned in the WMB test.
Yes, they are mentioned in the WMB test.
"quick release bar mount has stayed secure however hard we've ridden it"
Thanks for highlighting that point 😀
The 2 year warranty on the 6 pack is nice too.
I've SEEN a Six Pack and held it.
Cool story 😉
I wouldn't say I'm defending them, they pretty much defend themselves. I don't need to distort facts and figures make them look better then something else.
Also, who are you trying to convince that exposure aren't as good? Me? Or yourself? Buyers regret maybe?
but its a bike light - not a torch?!!?!?!? point surely invalid, and not a flaw against its intended use?
either way im not bothered really i got my brand new maxx daddy for 250 last year, its been hassle free so who i am to say anything bad against them - the mount is good i find with the correct silicone band which all new 2011 lights come with....
why is this a light war? who cares whose is the brightest?? as long as you are comfortable with yours and it allows you to ride at night thats all that matters and all that its needed for!
I had a LL on order with Trout but cancelled for the six pack. I got the six pack for almost the same price, as the LL with endurance battery.
I've been using dealextreme torches with exposure mounts for the last two seasons and never ever ever had a problem.
In the end it was all down to the wires wires wires and the separate battery pack rubbing dirt\sand\grit into the frame or bars.
My fellow night rider has a LL on order and I can't wait to compare them.
From Wiggle website:
Exposure Six Pack Front Light
SAVE 10%
Pay : £405.00 - so that makes the RETAIL price £450.
Oh and from the test - "We'd be wary of recommending it for regular big drop or crash-prone riders though..." You forgot that bit didn't you realmouse?
601 - 2 year warranty which is nice too.
It's not who is the best - Exposures seem good but just like deranged Orange owners who can't see past anything else, they are not necessarily "the best" and there are other excellent, and cheaper, alternatives.
Will be interesting to see what toons thinks once he gets the chance to compare directly.
Buyers regret? There you go again, the Corsa 1.2 driver trying to have a go at 335d driver because "he should have got a VXR8" again... 😆
