[Closed] Anti-cyclist bile from drivers

Why not ask them?
Does seem strange but then the road brings out aggression in so many instances.

I suspect cyclists are an easy target that get the brunt of further reaching frustrations.

Look how wound up people on here get about people parking inconsiderately. That thread reads a bit like the comments you describe.

"they jump lights" while conveniently forgetting the 'Red Light + 2' gamble that is becoming so common by people driving cars etc.

"Red means stop. It's not a vague suggestion that you may want to consider slowing down."
"Fork off you silly cant!"*
"Charming" accompanied by my best cheesy grin.

*not quite the correct spelling

I've been commenting on that Al, as has another former member of this place.
There's some complete bell ends on that that post.
Why is it, not matter what is actually being discussed in relation to cycling, that it always boils down to comments about jumping red lights, riding on the pavement, not paying road tax and being in "my" way? Its so utterly predictable.
Its like cyclists are the new scapegoats now that it is unacceptable to slate gays and blacks. (i've used those terms specifically, because those were the terms that bigots used back in the day, not because I think they're acceptable :wink:).

Car drivers have less blood flow to their brain. Higher brain functions have atrophied due to silting up and lack of use.

monksie
"they jump lights" while conveniently forgetting the 'Red Light + 2' gamble that is becoming so common by people driving cars etc.

It seems to have slipped from the collective memory that Amber means Stop too. hrmphhh

Anyway, no point in me getting frustrated about it. Zen

I'm always amused how frustrated they get waiting for cyclists at junctions and roundabouts ! They will sit there emotionless waiting for 50 cars to pass quietly wait there turn to go god forbid 1 cyclist holds them up It's all gesticulation and angry faces.

Had that from a couple of people at work, "cyclists jump lights", shouldn't be on the main A-road, hold up the traffic"

So i edited together a little video (don't normally have a camera, but recorded one weeks worth of footage, and showed them, didn't say anything just asked them them to watch the 3 mins of footage. By the end, they told me that it had given them a new perspective and that unfortunately they both then said that it had put them off ever going on a bike on the road. They both had nothing to say after i showed them a main road with three sets of traffic lights in a row, with the cyclists stopping and the car drivers around them accelerating instead of stopping to get through, the HGV drivers coming within a few feet and culminating in me going over the bonnet of car that pulled straight of a side road despite the footage clearly showing the woman looking straight at me.

There needs to be a lot less "click bait" footage of CAR vs BIKE (the cycling magazines are some of the worst for this...looking at you Road.cc) and proper educational videos and articles, how to deal with cyclists/pedestrians/horses/mopeds/motorbikes etc, needs to be part of the test (as does driving in the dark, in adverse conditions, on motorways)

First rule of arguing...
You can't argue with an idiot.

Second rule...
Facebook (and comments section of practically anything - Youtube, Daily Mail, etc) are full of idiots.

Glad someone mentioned road.cc
They seem to have turned rather tabloid recently, clickbait, lack of context in stories... etc.
And they spam the same clickbait to twitter multiple times per day.

Comments on the news sites, facebook and twitter are generally short, giving no time to make reasoned arguments so most comments are unreasonable nonsense.

The unreasonable voices are multiplied 10x, and reasonable people abandon the platform altogether.

Lots of social media appears to be pretty much unusable now.

IMO

Driving to work this morning I chose to overtake a cyclist in a 30 zone. I did so in the correct way by going over the center line to provide plenty of space and I watched the 3 cars behind me in my mirror. They all squeezed past the cyclist and did not even touch the center line in the road. There was nothing coming the other way and to me it looked far too close.

So, I wonder why they chose to overtake too close after seeing me overtake properly? Is it poor education or hatred?

'Cyclists' (anyone seen opersting a bicycle in the UK/Aus/US) are the new [s]immigrants[/s] [s]irish[/s] [s]gypsies[/s] [s]perverts[/s]

Enjoy yr minority status. Not everyone is so [s]despised[/s]under-valued. Just watch out for motorists making [s]close[/s] illegal (not to mention deadly) passes and try and enjoy the ride.

Was on the A417 yesterday (driving) yesterday and again saw a car-driver pull their vehicle up sharp a few feet behind a (moving) cyclist's rear-wheel. The driver 'waited' all of 5 seconds then accelerated to squeeze past without even crossing the broken white line. I see this so often it has actually put me off cycling on many roads, at least in the daytime. Those enamoured with 'anti-cyclist' sentiment will see this as a 'win'. Cars, horses and tractors (mostly) get overtaken when it's safe to do so. Bicycles not so much. The presence of someone on a bicycle in the (UK/Aus/US) transport ecosystem seems somehow to test the humanity of a driver? Or whether or not the driver considers a cyclist to be 'human'? Either way...

Is it poor education or hatred?

Edit: Both. And hive-mind/media-fed. Clicks/views etc are genuinely profitable and who doesn't love a [s]righteous[/s] self-righteous hate-fest. Problem is these squeaky wheels get the most oil. Empty ships etc , so we are left with the impression that the country is choc full of blathering entitled morons waiting to smack you one. Not true. But there is a growing trend, of that I'm sure.

Just to add a counter voice, IME it's actually got a lot better on the roads recently, particularly regarding passing distance. I don't think the WMP close passing initiative has been rolled out in our area yet (our police force did attend a training day on it, so hopefully it will), but not only are we right next to the West Midlands police area, every driver I've reported to the police for a close pass has come from that area. I'm assuming that if nothing else the publicity from such things has helped.

[quote=bigyinn ]I've been commenting on that Al, as has another former member of this place.

Me too, and I've seen comments from another current member here. I've tried hard to stay rational and calm - currently have an ongoing conversation with a taxi driver who doesn't appear to be totally anti cyclists, certainly she's not coming out with the sort of bile and irrational stuff many on there are, so I reckon it's worth trying to educate her.

But this:

[quote=andytherocketeer ]Facebook (and comments section of practically anything - Youtube, Daily Mail, etc) are full of idiots.

It's worth bearing in mind that those making stupid comments aren't at all representative. Most aren't worth arguing with as you'll never change their minds.

Too many angry idiots in the UK (England especially). That is the main problem. They rant and rave about everything, not just cyclists.

Best not to give them any of your time, and if you come across one in the wild, just blow them a kiss and get on with your day. 😆

Thanks all - good to be reminded of the perspective that it's just the idiot drivers that post up.

A friend recently got an awareness course for something and said it was v informative. She also confessed to almost hitting a cyclist for not seeing them, & that being her fault. But when I told her I'd been knocked off recently she asked "were you wearing a helmet?" 😐

My experience of cycling in traffic is gradually improving too.

Me too, and I've seen comments from another current member here

The Edinburgh one?

I'm always amused how frustrated they get waiting for cyclists at junctions and roundabouts ! They will sit there emotionless waiting for 50 cars to pass quietly wait there turn to go god forbid 1 cyclist holds them up It's all gesticulation and angry faces.

^ This is a genuinely interesting phenomenon that is frustrating in itself. I have a half-formed theory apart from (and in addition to) the accepted 'out-group/non-payer of (sic) 'road-tax' effect. My theory is that cyclists are so visibly *human* in an ecosystem (roads network) that has latterly become so inhuman. Waiting for a car is to a degree an automated process. You are a metal box waiting for an automated metal box to pass. You are in a queue. It is 'automated'. You are all the same. And then there, all of a sudden, is this vulnerable, fleshy 'human'. Not a box. Not 'automated'. What an affront to the system! It also puts the burden of 'extra' safety-awareness on the driver.

It also puts the burden of 'extra' safety-awareness on the driver.

It also puts the burden of 'extra' safety-awareness on the driver.
any evidence for this outrageous statement ?

First of all I should have typed burden as 'burden'. As for evidence? I think it's self-evident. I may be wrong, just throwing it out there 8)

see a lot of this recently (the posts) and being on the A9 Road Watch site makes it worse.

I really despair and don't know what all the bile is about, was wondering the other day why it had come to this about one particular 'group' for want of a better word getting reviled by majority. Genuinely don't see what all the angst is about Al.

Surely motorists get angry when they see cyclists jumping red lights because they, the motorists, are forced to conform to the law and the cyclists are not? It hacks me off as well; I've even told a light-jumping cyclist he was an embarrassment to other cyclists. Bad behaviour by other cyclists is one reason why I don't ride with a club; there's always one who antagonises other road users including pedestrians and horse riders.

[quote=globalti ]Surely motorists get angry when they see cyclists jumping red lights because they, the motorists, are forced to conform to the law and the cyclists are not?

You think they're justified then? You think motorists are forced to conform to the law? Because almost every day I see several motorists jumping red lights. Pavement cycling, that other favourite bugbear of the irrational motorist - every day without fail I see several examples of motorists who have broken exactly the same law. Meanwhile motorists routinely break the speed limit, and whatever publicity there might be, in reality there is very little enforcement of the mobile phone laws and motorists also routinely break that one. What's more, this whole thread came about from Edinburgh Police adopting the WMP close passing initiative where they're stopping drivers breaking the law - and all those angry comments are from drivers who think it's unfair that they are being stopped for breaking the law!

Motorists forced to conform to the law? Don't make me laugh. I'd put money on drivers breaking the law far more frequently than cyclists do - what's more, when drivers break the law in the ways I've mentioned they're actually causing a danger to other road users.

I'm curious - have you ever stopped a driver and told them they're an embarrassment to other drivers?

I'm curious - have you ever stopped a driver and told them they're an embarrassment to other drivers?

+1

If you're gonna police the streets you gotta be fair about it globalti.

I'm curious - have you ever stopped a driver and told them they're an embarrassment to other drivers?

Bingo. This is what I mean. Somehow cyclists are seen as 'lesser' road-users and expected to justify their right to be on the roads by being exemplary in a way that drivers never are. An idiot driver is seen as an idiot*. An idiot cyclist is somehow seen as 'cyclists'.

There are some exceptions, ie 'white van men', 'BMW drivers' etc. But these individuals are still not assumed to speak and act for all drivers in the way that anyone on a bicycle is assumed to speak and act for all cyclists.

globalti - Member
Bad behaviour by other cyclists is one reason why I don't ride with a club

Sounds like you need a better club. The one I ride with happy dispenses massive amounts of abuse if it's own members start being idiots.

West Midlands police did say that the people posting comments similar to those on the Facebook thread were exactly the ones they wanted to re-educate.

Nothing will improve. If anything, someone stopped by the police for this will develop an even greater disregard of cyclists now they've had their time wasted.

I've been battering away at the same facebook stories, pretty depressing. What struck me as weird is I saw someone I know who lives in London piping up, he's 500 miles away. And rides a motorbike so why are we enemies?

The Evening News thread's exactly what I expected but I'm pretty amazed by the Police Scotland one- so many people happily saying "I think it's OK to drive dangerously and break the highway code, because cyclists ride on the pavement", on the Police's facebook. Wouldn't it be lovely to get some direct police responses to those posts, or even better some knocks on doors "Mr Facey McFacebook? We're just here to discuss driving standards, won't take long..." but it'll never happen

Also- cyclists, stop saying "there's no such thing as road tax", it convinces nobody, misses the actual points, and just makes you look like a smartarse.

Surely motorists get angry when they see cyclists jumping red lights because they, the motorists, are forced to conform to the law and the cyclists are not? It hacks me off as well;

Are they? I see little evidence of motorists being forced to conform to the law. I seem to recall various studies that have shown that cyclists are actually less likely to break the law than motorists, and once you remember that speeding is against the law, this is very easy to believe.

Also- cyclists, stop saying "there's no such thing as road tax", it convinces nobody, misses the actual points, and just makes you look like a smartarse.

And sadly, there is effectively a hypothecated road tax now, so it's factually incorrect.

To a small point there is some justification in some complaints. Jumping lights being the one that's obvious . Suggesting car drivers do it is irrelevant. Different topic. Red light jumpers are complete F wits and need their bikes or balls smashing. No reason. Its bad enough, but sort of understandable, to get off and push the bike over the lights like a pedestrian. That's sort of having your cake and eating it.
I do actually think that's close passing is getting better but sadly just one that's too close is enough to kill you. There will never be an end to stupid driving just as there will never be an end to moronic cycling but I reckon that things could be better. What would make a difference I reckon is a) someone really famous and dear to the nation being hit or "better still " killed. That would hit the papers and whilst it wouldn't solve the problem it would wake many people up to their driving. b) Some decent telly publicity from big names. Shocking adverts with really good advice from popular people, especially those from crap but popular telly.
The CUK promotion f the close pass initiative is in my view pointless. The Police won't or cannot slap 4 figure fines on people and anyway the distances are useless. Being passed at under 2 metres at 60 mph by a lorry is lethal. Finally I feel that, as usual, all the efforts are being sent on keeping urbans commuters safe. Not good value I think because a) that's hardly recreational cycling which apparently is in the need of promotion and b) I am sick of London being the focus for everything and give not a dogs poo what happens there.
Cyclists don't help them selves sadly be it breaking the law or just stupid behaviour be it riding like a dimwit. Until we are perfect we can't expect everyone to be on our side.

West Midlands police did say that the people posting comments similar to those on the Facebook thread were exactly the ones they wanted to re-educate.

Nothing will improve. If anything, someone stopped by the police for this will develop an even greater disregard of cyclists now they've had their time wasted.

Always possible they'll still blame cyclists for this but if their names are being put in the system hopefully a few repeats will endanger their driving

no idea if standards are generally improving, I reckon I may have noticed a slight increase in decent passing distances from some, so the closepass thing is getting around a bit, but only the guys who gave you a couple of feet previously are now giving you a couple more, the minority unthinking idiots and utter arseholes who think it's fine to brush your elbow as they pass are still around.

And still get people looking but not seeing at junctions, or - a pet personal peeve - doing a sort of half an overtake before joining a queue and effectively boxing you in behind the line of cars they just joined, when they could have just as easily stayed behind.

Apparently, it’s due to isolation and dehumanising other road users.

Mentally cars become an extension of their driver’s homes, it's their space, it belongs to them, they feel like a private space - you see this manifest in the way some people will sit at the lights picking their nose like they're not surrounded by glass.

So, irritations are felt many times more strongly than if they were out of their cars, someone holding them up for 5 seconds, or worse "pushing in" as they consider any other road user who isn't cursed to queue - so the reaction is like, someone you don't know walking into your house and standing in front of the TV when EastEnders is on.

Couple that with the way we've dehumanised and pigeonholed each other - we're not people on the roads, we're drivers, cyclists, bikers, van drivers, taxis, truck drivers and others and most groups have issues with others by default and it’s always a collective – Taxi Drivers are all nutters, Cyclists have weekly meeting to ensure they hold up the most amount of traffic, etc - the fact that all these things are real people, with loved ones, who might be nice gets lost between the ears.

Add the sense of invulnerability - cyclists, tend to be male, tend to be fairly fit, tend to be 20s to 40s - massive generalisation yes, but I'd bet an 'average' commuting cyclist would fit that - in other words, 'men of fighting age' - out and about in the 'real world' a 55 year old 5' 3" Women wouldn't go up to a 25 year old 5' 10" Man, call him a ****er and then try to hit him, it would only be his sense of decency and maybe fear of prosecution that would stop him giving her a hoof in the slats, but hiding behind a door and 3mm of easy to safety glass drivers feel invulnerable - you'd be amazed how quickly they change character if you break the barriers down by talking to them, years ago an older chap missed me by a tiny distance and then gave me the finger like it was my fault and then stopped in traffic, I opened his door and asked him why and he screamed, like really screamed, it seems threating me with a tonne and a half of metal and plastic was okay, but a bigger, younger, fitter man opening his door to ask why was so shocking he nearly cried.

globalti - Member
Bad behaviour by other cyclists is one reason why I don't ride with a club

+1. I see riders from 3-4 local clubs riding like absolute tw*ts every weekend - there is no way I want to be associated with that.

this is a community page near where I live. Constant bile against cyclists. Apparently we are the cause of so many issues. Suggest that you need to reduce the number of cars to improve the traffic situation and so start up the usual comments.

Bez off here writes some good blogs as do other people. There is a great twitter feed about brick throwing too.

https://twitter.com/brick_safety?lang=en

These drivers get so wound up about something that is at worst an annoyance

They do it to other annoyances too, like caravans. Seriously, I'm going about 11% slower than you, how much of a big deal is that? But no, once it's in the collective mindset, and it's normalised, then it's the way of the world.

How many of you lot are now going to comment on this post complaining about caravanners? Go on, I dare you.

old guy hogging the middle lane on the M8 couple of days ago pulling a caravan

I've even told a light-jumping cyclist he was an embarrassment to other cyclists

What about shoe wearers who do bad things, why aren't, you as a fellow shoe wearer, outraged at their behaviour?

Do you also tell people who speed/drink drive/use mobiles etc. that they're an embarrassment to other drivers?

It's bizarre how cyclists get lumped together as some kind of collective group where the actions of an individual are used to justify an attitude towards others.

Point being that his choice of transport does not magically make him a representative of 'cyclists', or in any way related to the other cyclists, as the driver in front of you is a representative of 'other drivers'.

eg: this, I know it was in jest but it's a great example of the kind of stuff that does get trotted out for real

old guy hogging the middle lane on the M8 couple of days ago pulling a caravan

I'm not sure, are we supposed to be angry at:

- old guys
- middle lane hoggers
- caravaners
- drivers in general?
- that particular person

aracer - Member

Me too, and I've seen comments from another current member here.

It's almost like we're a concentration of internet-obsessed arguelympians isn't it 😆

blame molgrips for daring someone too.

old guy hogging the middle lane on the M8 couple of days ago pulling a caravan

Was it Geoff Capes?

Was it Geoff Capes?

😆

no, Magnús Ver Magnússon

It's bizarre how cyclists get lumped together as some kind of collective group where the actions of an individual are used to justify an attitude towards others.

Not really, Bird watchers, Train Spotters etc. all have stereotypes...because it's something of a self identity we choose... whereas driving is a "default"

Now I'm no expert on trainspotting or birdwatching but I'm sure they have different "disciplines" as well and the bloke (was that a sexist stereotype for trainspotters) who only watches steam trains hat4es being lumped with the ones who tick off diesel numbers... and the person who only has an interest in marsh birds or raptors finds it illogical they are classed with people who look at garden birds....

The thing is a whole load of people who have chosen to cycle do ride on pavements/run lights etc. EVERY DAY.... It doesn't take many Boris Johnson's to commit multiple offences every single day for us all to get lumped with the same shitty stick....

[i]drivers[/i] = pretty much everyone over the age of 17.
And everyone knows this from school -

[img] [/img]

That's a lot of stupid people driving cars who also have access to the comments section on Facebook.