[Closed] Am I allowed a "de-restricted" e-boy thread?

Popcorn anyone?

(If it's derestricted it's illegal as it requires road registration/tax/insurance/license and off road is a mechanised vehicle so all restrictions apply as if he was in a Landrover)

My cousins husband was bragging how he’s derestricted his, and now drafts lorries. Was pretty pleased with himself that he can now draft said lorries at 45mph ‘without really trying’. He isn’t a fat, lazy ‘I don’t cycle cos it’s hard’ type either, one of his other hobbies is full pointy hat and bodycondom timetrailing...

Some came past me at an easy 30mph the other day. Scaring my GF out her flesh. I did chase and overtake

???? 30mph ???? overtake ???? fishy

I would have got annoyed about it in the past but I realised me being annoyed only affected me so I just ignore it. Far better stuff to get annoyed about - admittedly in my case it would probably a movie or show or music, but what the heck.

Downhill. No problem at all.

When it started to rise the other way however.

The KOM the whole segment is 25mph over 1.5 miles.

It’s a black and white issue, once derestricted, ebikes are no longer covered by the pedelec term that allows them on bridleways and are simple motor vehicles that require tax, insurance and regular testing. It’s also unenforceable in practice without speed traps, scrambler cops and VOSA check sites all over the countryside which is obviously not happening.

While the law is clear, this is clearly something that will never be enforced unless it comes up in specific cases where the Police already have an interest.

Definitely just waiting for the popcorn on this one...

Downhill. No problem at all.

so how do you know they are de-restricted? maybe they are just faster than you downhill?

Sadly it'll take one of these idiots to kill a pedestrian before anyone will care.
Guy locally in full body armour rides up and down the canal at 30mph. Trouble is the towpath is busy and very narrow in places especially under the bridges which are blind. He'll either hit someone or end up in the canal.

Who cares if someone overtakes you, if these idiots wanna tailgate lorries, hell mend em.

Move on.

so how do you know they are de-restricted? maybe they are just faster than you downhill?

Two reasons.

One: I overtook them downhill

Two: whilst riding alongside I asked him.

And besides you can tell they are much harder to keep up with.

Who cares if someone overtakes you, if these idiots wanna tailgate lorries, hell mend em.

Move on.

Well I'm competitive etc... But scared the girlfriend (ignorant get out of the way riding) was the issue but I'm not that bothered, they're always going to be there aren't they?

It's not the ebike element it's the deristricted element that is up for debate.

There's always dicks that are faster than you, whether powered or not, thwere's always dicks that'll squeeze past, c'est la vie, ain't ever gonna change, powered or not.

A much more common issue, both riding and running btw, is peoples complete ignorance to what's behind them, pedestrians and slower cyclists. The amount of folk that shit themselves when you ring the bell from even a good distance behind them is unreal.

De-restricted e-boy?

I'm pretty sure there's laws about that sort of thing.

Someone call the UCI... 😂 ^

What's an e-boy??

let them get on with it.

There’s always dicks that are faster than you, whether powered or not, thwere’s always dicks that’ll squeeze past, c’est la vie, ain’t ever gonna change, powered or not

Of course they will always be dicks, but this is giving dicks faster more powerful tools to be dicks to a greater extent and in for many in new areas. Many of these dicks would not take a small motorcycle onto a canal path but because they see their new toy as bike it's ok they can justify it.

I came in thinking there would be some tips and tricks and kits to buy...

I’m leaving with the popcorn.

Of course they will always be dicks, but this is giving dicks faster more powerful tools to be dicks to a greater extent and in for many in new areas. Many of these dicks would not take a small motorcycle onto a canal path but because they see their new toy as bike it’s ok they can justify it.

All the while we still have cars rolling off the production line that can pretty much all go over 100mph....

And I don't live near any canals.

Meh. 🙂

Saw one yesterday, looked similar to an old Solex, came barreling down the high street, no pedal assistance, wee LED light on the front, did an utterly ridiculous looking foot-out moto-x type u-turn and pulled up outside a shop. No plates.

Cyclist takes off helmet, unzips jacket revealing silver haired guy in suit- bellends everywhere it seems.

Of course they will always be dicks, but this is giving dicks faster more powerful tools to be dicks to a greater extent and in for many in new areas. Many of these dicks would not take a small motorcycle onto a canal path but because they see their new toy as bike it’s ok they can justify it.

Nails it.

Coming to trail centre near you soon:

I have already seen one at Cannock...

If I get an E bike it'll look like that! ^ Might as well go all in! 😀

All the while we still have cars rolling off the production line that can pretty much all go over 100mph….

Obviously troll due to poor argument...

If you say so! 🙂

Coming to trail centre near you soon:

Seen one like that at Glentress and Kinnoull Hill.

It's curious how someone makes an arbitrary law, 15.5mph and 250w(continuous), and then by default it becomes morally repugnant not to obey. 😆

Plenty of YouTube vids on that Bultaco ^^

Has to be said, it looks flipping awesome.

£4K

About the same price as an e-bike by a large cycle company, no?

An e-boy is my safe but derogatory term for an e-bike rider. Not seen an e-girl yet.

Riding fast not an issue. Riding fast with seemingly no skill and a Clarkson approach to cycling is.

But what ya gonna do?

It’s curious how someone makes an arbitrary law, 15.5mph and 250w(continuous), and then by default it becomes morally repugnant not to obey. 😆

It’s curious how someone makes an arbitrary decision, that it has pedals and says specialized on the side, and then by default it becomes morally ok for them not to obey. 😆

Where's the line? Bulcato? KTM Freeride-E? Honda CRF125 with a quiet pipe?

Since we are plucking numbers out of our arse, I believe 25mph and 750w should be the defacto moral standard! 😆

What’s an e-boy??

https://stayhipp.com/glossary/eboy/

Since we are plucking numbers out of our arse, I believe 25mph and 750w should be the defacto moral standard! 😆

That's a fag paper away from a moped (31mph) which needs licence, cbt, type approval, mot, tax, helmet, and insurance (and keeping off cycle infrastructure).

I believe we've already established that I'm not in favour of the arbitrary designations currently in usage.

I wholeheartedly assert that an entirely new set of arbitrary restrictions should, hence forth, be plucked straight out of our arses, given the new and delightful electric landscape in which we currently inhabit! 😆

From https://www.fullycharged.com/Bultaco-Brinco-Electric-Bike

Not suitable for road or public bridleway use this is the perfect version of the Brinco for those who have access to private tracks and trails they would like to tear along at over 60km/h (37mph).

It’s curious how someone makes an arbitrary law, 15.5mph and 250w(continuous), and then by default it becomes morally repugnant not to obey.

It's not totally arbitrary though, the point is to restrict them to speeds appropriate to the environments they'll be in, given the speeds of others on the trail.

14mph or 17mph would be perfectly fine too, but 25mph isn't

Would one be so kind as to share the detailed scientific report that surely must have been completed prior to the implementation of said designations? 😆

*Plucking from ones arse shall not be considered as a valid classification of science!

I believe we’ve already established that I’m not in favour of the arbitrary designations currently in usage.

Thing is, it’s not an arbitrary designation. It’s the current Law, and while as above I agree it’s basically impossible to enforce, you have the same amount of say in whether you think it applies or not as a road speed limit; requirement for third party insurance etc. It’s not a subject you get to just disagree with unless you’re happy to let the Police seize and destroy your bike and take other action against you personally in the unlikely event you actually get caught breaking the law. But in the mean time, people riding ebikes modified into electric motorbikes as if pedal cycle access applies to them risk ruining legal access for everyone (possibly not in Scotland and maybe Wales).

The genie is out of the bottle on this one unfortunately, even if Bosch, Shimano etc all managed to create a situation where it was impossible to modify their units there would be private imports and homebrew stuff apart from the people mistaking Bultaco and the rest for e-bikes. The earlier point about some people believing rules don’t apply to them is sadly the bottom line and the entire issue, including that it’s even possible to modify the bikes as easily as it is.

Not sure if you're being serious, but just in case, there's no science, that's why I said 'not totally arbitrary'...

The best we can probably do is everybody pluck something out of there arse and see if we have some sort of consensus as to what a reasonable speed for a motorised vehicle on a trail of mostly leg powered vehicles should be.

I'd guess the arse-plucking would unearth an answer not that far off 15mph.

In the days of yore, some also believed that the red flag act was a sensible law too. Laws by their very nature are not perpetual, indeed they are and should be transient, adjusted to accommodate the ever changing landscape that time and progress enforces upon us. 😆

Seriously though, I do think it's a discussion that should be opened up, as it's not really been had. There has just been restrictions put in place(and they are entirely arbitrary) and everyone is largely taking them as set and they are becoming some sort of moral guideline, which is nonsense.

Which is odd, because for one the 250w limit, continuous, is pointless(it's largely unmeasurable outside of factory conditions as far as I'm aware, and it's really got nothing to do with how much power you can put through it), it should be changed to 1000w peak to make it more transparent(which is largely were most are getting to anyhow mind, peak for most emtbs is probably somewhere in the 500-750w range at the minute, that'll stretch further in the future).

And the 15.5mph limit is entirely silly when it's a limit that non powered cyclists regularly exceed with ease. Why is that limit is set lower than people can cycle? That in itself is reminiscent of the red flag act kind of hysteria I mentioned above.

I would also argue that forcing bikes above the current limits to go through the type approval process is also standing in the way of what could be, if properly thought out, an absolute revolution in city/road transport.

I think this is an important reminder of the effect a mass shift from 4 to 2 wheels could potentially have if properly strategised over say 10/20years..

For me, speed ebikes, are something that could make that shift possible.

Fair enough, there’s a discussion to be had and outdated laws can and should be changed, but simply ignoring them because you disagree is a decision with potential consequences.

As to the power output in Watts being specified, it’s gotta be in something and watts are the right unit for the job. Without checking, I’m pretty sure power output ranges for all classes of vehicles are specified and in Watts with the exception of classes that are open ended where it is expected that road speeds will limit eventual use (I agree this is inconsistent).

Regarding potential fit rider unpowered speeds, that’s a can of worms - not least because as we all know road speed limits can be exceeded by such riders in some cases, but they are extremely unlikely to be prosecuted or caught. I think this is probably a point seen as a fudge factor with a hopeful assumption that riders who are sufficiently dedicated to become able to ride at such speed will be responsible. This is obviously rubbish as I can put my hand up and admit to riding irresponsibly at times and I’m not particularly fit or dedicated by athlete standards but could break road speed limits on a CX bike.

There’s got to be a limit though if the bikes will be used in public places and the speed will be available to whoever hops on regardless of experience. Maybe there’s a case for something like the moped/motorcycle CBT system making derestricted/more powerful bikes legal, but that opens up another huge can of worms unless we are going down the route of visible identification plates.

The Law is full of numbers for things that are a bit whack, like how fast a standard person can cross a road as a limit on minimum controlled crossing timings (which is also a pretty whack number as anyone with mobility issues might well struggle to make it in the specific time and therefore find roads they are unable to cross). This is probably one of those things. I guess there’s also a concern that since bicycles may be used in places where pedestrians are present they need to be limited to something fairly low...

One of the most common reasons for using an e-bike that I see on here is "faster is more fun" so I think it is inevitable that we'll see more derestricted bikes being used off road (as pointed out above, it would be very difficult to enforce the current limits).
So there will either be a conflict between derestricted riders and other cyclists travelling at very different speeds, or in the longer term there may be a general rise in trail centre speeds as increasing numbers of riders decide to "level up".

On the point of excepting ‘high powered’ ebikes from type approval, I see the argument regarding getting a paradigm shift to large numbers of single rider ebikes into circulation as regular transport in place of bigger vehicles, but the whole point of type approval is to ensure stuff going on the road in public isn’t dangerous to everyone anywhere near it (or no more dangerous than has been agreed is OK). That’s like lifting all Planning restrictions to solve the housing crisis. It might possibly work, but there would be a lot of collateral cost to pick up elsewhere.

There’s got to be a limit though if the bikes will be used in public places

Why does there though?

Cars aren't restricted to 70mph, and don't automatically restrict themselves to 60/40/30/20mph in the required zones.

Given the common standard is to speed limit roads rather than vehicles. It's sense we've already got the solution...