I'm going to be buying a new frame in a month or so and I'm really torn between an Alpine 160/5 with maxle/Nomad. I'll be putting the kit from my current set up on the new frame the most relevant of which is some lyrics up front which will go on whatever is chosen.
Nomad
I've had the chance to ride the Nomad and liked it although did find the rear suspension perhaps a little too active, this can probably be sorted out with some shock tuning. Always wanted one as well
Five
Light enough with plenty of travel but can it handle the odd trip to Alps? Test ride is due in feb. Will need the maxle at the rear.
Alpine 160
Beefy enough for all duties but perhaps a little heavy. Test ride in Feb as well.
Most of my riding is in the Peaks/lakes/Wales and trail centre's.
Impossible choice perhaps but any useful advice/comments. What would you do.
Buy the one you want most 😀
I've known a few folks have happily done Alps trips on Fives, and I did last year on my Heckler. On the other hand, I would've liked a bit more give at times. But then again, Alps once a year and Peaks / Lakes / whatever every weekend or so, and the Five would be perfect for that.
I had a similar choice and went for a blur ltc, sorry i know it doesn't answer the question 😆
Not a 5. Ugly, but then I'm not riding it!
All useful input 😆
If I go for what I want I think it's the Nomad but I always wonder why they don't put a rear maxle on the thing. 180mm upfront but no maxle at the back...odd.
Alpine 160 ticks all technical box's but it doesn't have the 'whoar' factor for me.
Orange 5 with rear maxle and 160mm up front could be good
round and round I go, where I stop I just don't know.
All good bikes, I'd probably go with the Alpine as it is a true 'do it all' bike, try Sunset in Cardiff for a good deal on Orange bikes
I always wonder why they don't put a rear maxle on the thing. 180mm upfront but no maxle at the back...odd.
Perhaps because there's very little benefit? I've ridden a Nicolai Helius AM with and without maxle and genuinely can't tell the difference between them. If you've got one great if not then hardly an issue to worry about.
Interestingly my original DH bike was the first generation Specliazed Demo 8 and that had a regular 10mm/135mm QR rear end. A threaded system may be more 'secure', i.e. there's zero chance that the QR lever will catch on something and flip open, but I'm really dubious that it's any stiffer, at least not materially so as you'd notice it as a rider.
geetee1972
Interestingly my original DH bike was the first generation Specliazed Demo 8 and that had a regular 10mm/135mm QR rear end. A threaded system may be more 'secure', i.e. there's zero chance that the QR lever will catch on something and flip open, but I'm really dubious that it's any stiffer, at least not materially so as you'd notice it as a rider.
I had always assumed the difference would be as significant as it is up front. Must try more bikes to help see if I can tell the difference.
Probably varies between deigns, VPP bikes are very triabgulated so quite stiff. Ditto the Demo range from spesh, a trianglated swingarm with an extra set of links!
The 5 is a great big box section of aluminium so pretty stiff, maybe not quite VPP levels, couldn't say for sure, but theoreticaly that idea fits. Big 3dimensionaly shaped dropouts as well.
Heckler/prophet stle swingarms coming in last; long, tubular, big flat dropouts, not a stiff design.
I want a 5, it's not a need, it's a want!
Nomad is pretty stiff at the back anyway - the structure is probably stiffer than a pair of forks due to the braced design.
I've taken my Nomad to the alps loads of times - providing it's not just for doing DH courses it's awesome (if it is get a DH bike). No idea about 5s / Alpines - they look a bit ghetto tho. Not sure if that helps 😀
i have a five and its zippy enuff to do all kinds of stuff on it... tho unfortunately ive never been to the Alps..lol my son has just recently bought the Alpine and luvs it , once he sorted out the cane creek rear sus settings..! just waiting for an upgraded headset now i think.... two great bikes !!!!
Ive just bought a Foes RS7 as a DH race bike, however during research I found many american riders were saying it climbs better and descends better than a Nomad. On the brief ride ive had of mine, with a not particularly well working shock with a full on DH set up I can vouch for the fat it pedals pretty damn well.
It'll handle the DH sections better than the others with lets say a 180/140mm Fox 36 talas, but should still climb pretty well and build up pretty light.
interesting to hear all the opinions particularly about the rear maxle, perhaps it's less important than I thought.
Alpine/5 a bit ghetto....perhaps but well proven design and damn they get great reviews. i guess I just have to get on one and make up my mind.
Ive got a 5 at the moment with 160mm forks and maxle rear end, before I bought it I demoed a 5 with just qr and you can really tell the difference between the two of them, have you thought about the upgrade to the 5 of the cane creek coil shock that may be better suited for alpine adventures?
Before the 5 I did have a patriot not quite the same as the alpine but very similar, it was great for dh and playing about on but for just going out riding it was a bit overkill.
Dont have any personal experience of the nomad but a friend has one and he is just as quick on that as he is on his dh bike.
Nomad would probably be the best do it all bike. Goes uphill almost as well as my Blur LT2. Did you try the current version or the old one as there is quite a difference. They look as good as well as they go. Shouldn't be an issue with the back axle - you see quite a few used in the Scottish Downhill series without any problems
Not sure I'd spend £2k on a frame if I had doubts about whether I liked the suspension performance (as you say about Nomad).
Have you considered any other bikes? I've been very impressed with my new (to me) Cube Fritzz. About the same weight as a Nomad, climbs like a 5in bike and descends like a 7in bike.
I've never really been interested in having "one bike for everything", but this would be an excellent candidate - especially for the riding you mention.
I found the Alpine a little short for me (a combination of short stem and steep seat angle), but love, [i]love [/i]my 18" Five (I'm 6ft).
With 160mm forks on, the difference in headangle between a Five and an Alpine is pretty minimal.
I've used a Five in the French Alps (Chamonix), the Austrian Alps, the Italian Alps, southern Spain, Croatian islands, Grenadian rain forest, the Peaks, the North York Moors, various Welsh mountains and assorted trail centres, and locally (Chilterns and DHing at Aston Hill). It has got a bit twitchy when it gets fast and open and there has been the odd occasion when I'd wanted a bigger bike, but for 90% of the time it's been fantastic (I've also switched to a 50mm stem and 740mm bars which has made a difference when it gets hairer. I also have an 80mm and a 65mm). I'm now running Lyriks and a seat-dropper, but with a change of tyres it makes a very adequate local bike.
I can't comment on the Nomad because I've not ridden one, but I have friends that love theirs. However, when I sell this Five I'll be replacing it with another.
I would say ride them all, then ride them again. The Five and the Alpine have a very traditional single-pivot feel to the rear action, which some love and others hate. I like it as I know what the rear is doing - it's very predictable - whereas my experience of multi-pivot bikes is that they are very supple, which is great for rider comfort, but not so great if you like to know exactly what you're rear end is doing.
Anyway, my two penn'th - hope it's of use.
Nomad has the edge but for me the sizing of the Nomad is better, 16" Orange is a bit short and an 18" is too long, Nomad sort of falls inbetween and does climb better than the 5, my new 5 has maxle and 36's up front and is stiff and does go well, the Nomad goes well with a coil shock and my Nomad also had a Lyric up front, I changed from Nomad to 5 , but would go back next time I change, 5 is great but for me the Nomad has the edge, Alpine just felt like a heavy 5..
If I go for what I want I think it's the Nomad but I always wonder why they don't put a rear maxle on the thing. 180mm upfront but no maxle at the back...odd.
interesting to hear all the opinions particularly about the rear maxle, perhaps it's less important than I thought.
From my experience a bolt through rear makes absolutely no difference whatsoever; you get far more "flex" from a badly built/trued wheel, or incorrect tyre pressures than you'll ever get from a QR rear end.
On the other reason oft quoted "less chance of QR lever catching on something and opening up". Seriously, has anyone ever experienced this, or you riding mates, or anyone you actually know, or is it some mythical "what if" that certain manufacturers dream up?
Thisnotaspoon - check my profile for a bargain 5 if you want one.
I've not ridden a maxle'd 5 but there's no lack of stiffness in the standard one, I can't believe anyone's ever got on a recent 5 and said "Man, I wish this had a rear maxle, it's so damn noodly", it has a skip for a swingarm.
Of the bikes you list I'd have an Alpine, but no, actually I'd have a Hemlock, wait, I do! The Five's a great all-round usable tool though.
I have to disagree with you Northwind, I bought a 2011 5 with standard quick release and wish in hindsight I'd gone for the maxle. I can feel the rear moving about all over the place. However, I'm a big rider at 6' 3" and over 15 stone....
I'm 15+ stone and most bikes feel slightly noodly out back, but my 5 with maxle is solid , my Nomad was also solid out back with standard drop outs, Heckler before that was flexy, improved it with a 10mm bolt in Hope hub. Tried an original ST4 changed gear and rubbed the brake when I stood up to pedal 😀 Meta 5 was the same til I put a 12mm axle on it.
Out of those 3 I would have an Orange 5 without a doubt. I have never ridden any of them.
But if most of your riding is in the peaks/lakes and trailcentres then I cant see why you would want or need 160mm+ of travel. Trailcentres need to be made more interesting, not toned down with masses of rear suspension travel.
A 5 would be fine in the Alps, the new ones look pretty slack and will no doubt be fairly stable at speed. The killer thing in the alps is generally the braking bumps on the downhill tracks but these arent very nice on any bike.
I usually ride the Alps on a hardtail, its a bit of a myth that you need some all singing all dancing long travel monster to ride out there, although they are more comfortable.
Lyriks would probably be ideal but I'd say they'd be best set at 130/140mm of travel.
Or you could do what chakaping suggested and check out some other manufacturers
I've never ridden any of them, but I'd be flippin' happy to have to choose one out of the three.
For the type of ridding I do I'd be chuffed to bits with the Five. The others would be too much bike for me.
Grupper205 - Member
"However, I'm a big rider at 6' 3" and over 15 stone.... "
Ah, to be fair I weigh as much as a child. A proper old-school child as well, not one of your modern fat ones. So that could be it.
grupper205,
I'm with you in the height weight catagory at 6ft 2 and 15 1/2 stone. I certainly noticed the rear on my old stumpjumper and current felt redemption being a little noodly when I push hard. I've also seen orange's own marketing recommend rear maxle for larger riders, who do you believe!?
This weight issue also explains the choice of a longer travel trail bike, I've had 140mm travel trail bikes and quite frankly they can't stand the pace if you push them. I've been through numerous bearing sets and broken frames on bikes like this. Some because of my own stupidity (see running into tree's at speed) and some because they have just given up. A longer travel bike brings a beefier frame and bearings. Hopefully bringing with it a peace of mind I don't get on lighter shorter travel bikes.
choices choices choices
"I've also seen orange's own marketing recommend rear maxle for larger riders, who do you believe!?"
Well. Orange's own marketing also recommends maxle lites with Pro 2 freehubs so...
Pimpmaster, which croatian islands did you ride on?
I've been to Bol, Brac many times and am going back in sept to get married. Worth taking my bike?
Sorry for the hijack.
>What would you do<
Ride them both and buy the one I preferred riding.
Simple.
okey dokey a topic I feel able to talk about, I have ridden the following bikes in the alps (most of them just down pleney as we were swapping bikes around for a day)
Heckler
mrk1 Nomad (mine) (with 36s)
older 5 (straight tube)
160
223
Bottlerocket
Uzzi
All of them were capable in the alps, the heckler and the older 5 were noticably steeper and scarier to ride than the others. The 223 felt like a monster. The 160 was a 16" frame and felt to small for me to ride quickly (I'm 5'11). The bottlerocket, uzzi and nomad felt about the same, and were my favourites.
I'll be honest I'm not good enough to feel the difference between a maxle and a QR....
If it was an all round bike that is capable in the alps I recommend a nomad. This year I've bought a slightly larger shock for the nomad to give it a bit more rear travel (7") which seems to work well, I have yet to see a decent deal on totem;s to upgrade the front. The idea being I swap fork/shock/wheelset for uplifts & alps.
To be honest though, it coped perfectly fine with an air shock, 36s and a 5.1dt wheelset the last 2 years...
Get the five with some 150mm 32s or revs. It'll be so much more versatile for your specified riding. If you've got the money the nomad is obviously nice but you could have a well speced bike plus a biking holiday for the same price.
If you like the vpp the butcher might be worth a look for a nice saving.
I'd also point out the cube fritzz or stereo, great value for money.
As mentioned above - Nicolai's are super stiff so most riders say they can't tell the difference. The disadvantages of rear Maxle appear to be incompatibility of Maxle Lite with some hub designs and corrosion/siezure because riders don't tend to remove the front wheel as often as the front.
Backhander - I lived and worked on Korcula for seven months as a guide in 2004. The riding is wonderful, but tucked away. Worth taking a bike, but try and get local knowledge before heading out.
Happy to talk about it more - drop me a line at pimpmasterjazz[at]yahoo[dot]com if you want to know more!
drunkenmonkey........I have a 160 & 5 at the moment, both 2010 and both great bikes, both usualy on RP23's on rear, 150 Rev Team's on the 5, and Lyrik solo air DH 170's on the alpine. The 5 weighs 28.5 lb and the 160 weighs 31.5. I maybe don't do either justice, or have had the fortune to venture to the Alps or such places.....But you ask which is the best ? To me its the 160 without any doubt, even at my local haunt llandegla. If you happen to be near Llandegla in the near future, I could maybe arrange a dual test ( both bike are 18" ) Oh and if you go for a 5, you could buy the std. swingarm version, and use a 10mm bolt thru axle (which I have done, and recon is as stiff as the 12mm Maxle)
My opinion, and it is just that, is that the 160 would be the most versatile and reliable bike to own long term. I've owned a 5, Patriots, and SC Blur 4x, and after all that the one bike I now have is a custom Patiot 66 build with a 2010 RP23 from a 160 and pikes. Its great at everything, its perfectly manageble on XC rides and is fun on the down. If had your choice I'd go for the 160.
But you'll have a blast with any of them! Good luck.
Steels in Gosforth had both the 160 and 5 on sale. Even if you order new one in sure it was 20% off and free paint job on 5.
owned a nomad (1st gen), demo'd a nomad 2 for 2 days and have demo'd a 160 for 3 days. i too am torn between frames to replace the ageing nomad - i would comment
nomad -
supple vpp feel
unpredictable vpp feel (never absolutely know what it is going to feel like) blows through mid travel a bit (better that the old one)
quiet
bearings (must be better than the old one which costs a fortune in money and missed weekends to replace the bearings) Apparently the new ones need to be regularly greased or the bearings die quite quickly.
QR - the QR constantly releases itself on my nomad 1 (which may be my fault for not tightening it enough but after 5 years the metal is getting a bit deformed down there).
alpine 160
suspension - a bit 'chattery' compared with the buttery nomad, but will come down to set up and may be better with a ccdb (although i am a bit convinced the nomad 1 is super supple because of the mid stroke softness, which is great for the rough stuff but rubbish for getting any support of the face of jumps, kickers etc) So i would say the 160 is 90% as good as the nomad, with 10% of some aspects better.
noise - a bit noisy (who cares)
maxle - love it
bearings - its just not going to be an issue
price - frame with ccdb for price of nomad....
personally i am still to decide, but am also interested in a tough spec 5 - because of the lightness (both the nomad and 160 are a fair old slog to get to the good bits) or a blood, which i have demoed for a couple of days and absolutely loved (like a sparky short travel slack and lairy nomad) but the lack of all round use puts me off slightly.
used to ride a patriot 66, which is now hanging on the wall... a year ago I wanted to go for a new frame and had to decide what comes next....
tried a nomad for 2 days but ..for me .. it didn`t feel right, and I wanted to go for another orange..
so the 160 was at first my favorite..but for mostly riding it in the alps, and for the sweaty hours of seated climbing..I finally decided for the 5..and didn`regret it for a second !
run it with 160mm lyrik and an old manitou swinger coil shock with ti spring..and it is fantastic..light enough for the long ups..and strong enough for the rough...
for more lift assisted riding like PS or verbier the 160 would maybe a bit better..but for the type of trails around chamonix and exploring new trails between unknown (for me) summits and valleys the five is just perfect....
can you put cane creek coil shock on orange five then....as someone above suggested..
im only 5ft tiny and weigh 8 stone so prob my RP23 will still suit me fine.
my son has the coil shock on his new Apine ..took some adjusting to get it right tho, but once sorted he says its great !
I have an alpine 160 and I love it to bits. Had a reign x previously and that felt too dull when the going was flatter (Im trying to compare to the nomad due to suspension systems though I know they are not the same) For me it would depend on the kind of rider you are and what else you have to ride? If your a pure trail rider then I am sure the five will be more than enough but if you lean more toward gravity riding riding then the alpine is better bike without compromising too much on the xc and trail riding ability.
The 160 for me has been ideal, I bought it to take to NZ on a trip but wanted a bike that was usable back in the UK. Havent been disappointed. It is quite a lot of bike but because its single pivot it feels 'fast' and responsive giving you feedback on easier flatter trails (such as those in uk trail centes) I run a fox coil on it and have quite a heavy build (I use it for uplift and dh riding as well) but it still zooms along and I feel would be even better for trail riding if equipped with an air shock. I would imagine that the 5 would be a better bike for trail centre riding (slightly lighter with less travel etc) though in my opinion the 160 as an all rounder is the one and suits me better as I lean heavily toward gravity riding. Ive ridden NZ, Austrian alps, Slovenian alps and bikeparks Winterberg and Willengden bike parks, UK trail centres, UK DH and the only time I felt underbiked was on WC tracks out in europe. I havent ever really felt that its too much bike unless the trails were really dull (ie swinley but i have a hardtail as an alternative) I also rode it in the AE round of the avalanche cup in its current set up and I qualified 14th and finished 17th so I reckon it definately suits gravity enduro and hard and fast trail centre riding.
I cant really comment on the nomad it looks like a great bike but for me the Alpine just suits the uk better as well as having the beef and versatility to smash bigger alpine riding.
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fivespot
NickyB is going downhill
accu
munkyboy
ddmonkey
Great advice guys thanks for all the really useful input, it's good to hear from people who've owned the bikes and had similar choices to make. Really helpful.
I'm going to testride the 5 and 160, back to back, at Llandegla sometime in feb so will see how they feel.
Thanks again people. I will bore you with the final decision when it happens!
Nicky B , I caught that little video a while back and thought it looked cracking, good effort!
cheers im rather proud of it hence why I roll it out all the time!!!!
edit :- good luck and let us know what you decide tbh they are all amazing bikes and im sure that any of them are going to be a solid ride! It might be a tough decision but its quite a nice one to have to make!!
indeed - nice decision to make....
try and get a demo of a nicolai helius AM as well tho......
incredibly stiff, brilliant construction, amazing options list.......