[Closed] Alfine, worth it?

in my opinion no.
got one on my electric bike. the wheels weighs a ton.
bit lump just sat there and i reckon pretty hard to unweight the rear end unless on a sus bike.

Now I quite like mine, quiet, smooth changing, and I can still heft the back wheel up and down things if I need too.

I only have the 8 speed version and I'm not so keen on the big gear jumps, if I could afford it I'd love to have an 11 speed version.

I blew my 11 up after about a month, not geared down much 32:20 second gear couldn't take the strain.
Andy

I have an 8sp. Its pretty much the same total weight as a 2x9 set up but with the gear range of 1x9. I really like it and I can unweight the rear wheel.

Wheel comes out easily - cable disconnects easily once you get the knack and two 15 mm nuts and the wheel is off.

For winter use especially - the ease and simplicity of a SS with the advantage of gears

the rear wheel on a alfine is far heavier than a standard geared wheel.
and you notice the lump more when it is concentrated in one place.
imho that is.

Just switched from singlespeed to Alfine 8 and it's great!

Don't notice the weight difference at all - the ability to spin rather than grind up hills is great.

Having said that I still love single speed as well so I'll switch between the two as the mood takes me

Things that put me off (apart from the weight)
I like to be able to select my gear ratios, can't do with hub gears except by changing front ring, which only changes the range, not the spread of gears.
I like to have a 'good' set and an 'everyday' set of wheels, two alfine hubbed wheels is out of my price range.
Removing wheel may well be easy once the knack is acquired, but in the cold/dark QR wins hands down.
I like to be able to see if things are wearing out rather than have a 'black box' system which is either working or broken, and when bits do wear out I like to be able to choose what I buy to replace them.
I've never had any problems with conventional rear mechs, and that's running the bike all year, almost every day - for me the weak points in a transmission are chain and cables, alfine doesn't solve that and I personally can't see any benefits for how/where I ride of going to a hubbed gear system.

If I can just pick up a couple of points from the last post re cables and chains.
Hub gears (I had Rohloff rather than Alfine)are much kinder to chains because of the perfect chain line and constant tension. I got at least double chain life with hub gears.
Cables on hub gears work just as hard as on derailleurs but are much less sensitive to adjustment, rear mechs rely on a precise amount of cable pull between two properly indexed positions to change gear. Hub gears don't use the cable to index the gears, they just move the "gearstick" to the next stop so cable adjustment is much less critical.

Good points dave,
if it were easier/cheaper to give hub gears a try out I'd like to, but I guess I've too much invested in derailleur system at the moment for this to be likely....

Plenty posted about this on the forum if you search a way back Mr. Luke.

They appear to be a bit 'Marmite'. I love mine which I've got on a Genesis IOID (8 spd)that was bought as a winter bike. However, I used it almost constantly for the whole of the first year I had it.

Some people say they're draggy, but mine isn't.
Some people say there's too much weight at the back, but I don't really feel it.
Some people say they're slow to change gear, but I don't really notice - it's balanced by the ability to change gear without pedalling.

Worst thing I can say is the shifter is 'rapid rise' and has a rattle (although I think there's a new design out now?)

HTH

I love mine.

secondhand ones can be picked up fairly easy and a lot of people are curious about them so you can sell them on again if its not for you.

I've popped an Alfine set up on the birthday wishlist. Come the winter my FS is going to be put away with it's expensive derailleurs and drivetrain that take a beating in the Chilterns slop.

Why does the shifter have to be back to front though? Something to do with trekking bikes I guess?

Go for an 11 speed if you can afford.

Weight is comparable to normal setup but concentrated. Easy to get used to.

Removing wheel is easy once you've done it a couple of times.

Got the 8sp version on my Genisis IOID and I absolutely love it, been running it two years now every day completly maintainence free exept for a quick chain clean and lube now and again, try saying that for conventional set up. I also use the bike for commuting and it really comes into is own. Being able to select your gear when waiting at the lights is just madness. Have riden most of the 7 stanes red runs on it no problem although you do have to push a bit harder on the uphill. Have just changes my front ring from a 36 to a 32 which should make climbing a bit easier. On the downside it is a bit heavier, my whole bike weights in at 14.5kg which I think is quite alot for a hardtail but if thats what your used to you dont know any difference. Also I'm starting to feel the limits of the gears as I move on to more technical black route climbs (hence my post about buying a FS Nerve AM) Also the opposite gearr shift thing can take a bit of getting used to especially if your running a bike with conventional shifters as well. If you can afford it go for the 11 spd, bigger gear range, smoother changing and apparently the shifter is the right way round.

Neil

they're ace.

my 8spd alfine wheel weighs 2300g (mavic 717 rim) (without sprocket)

not light, but it's worth it.

This was my little experiment!

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stu-mcgroos-lets-put-this-alfine-weight-issue-to-bed-once-and-for-all-thread ]clicky[/url]

for hills no, flat yes.

Treat yourself to a Rohloff from the FleaBay.... 14 speed Rolls Royce

i have an 8 on the commuter and an 11 on the mtb - i've not had any issues with the 8 and only a slight oil leek on the 11 which was easily fixed (although it ment spending £15 on the correct tool).

both were a little clunky on teh fist 1-200 miles, but soon smoothed out.
as for the op's questions...

8 or 11 speed (Scotland, lakes, Rivinton, Peaks riding)

the 11 is a little lighter than the 8. the gear ratio is a bit bigger on the 11 and also more even. the cable release is much much better and macks rear wheel removal much easier. also the shifter is the right was around. its also smoother - thanks to conical gears inside.

Are they lighter or heavier than "normal" gears, cassette etc.

both the 8 and 11 are comparitive to a 'standard' tripple chainset and mechs setup, so less gears for the same weight - the 11 is a little lighter, but not noticably so. The placement of teh weight is at the rear of teh bike which is noticable when you fisrt ride one, however you soon get used to it and its not a problem.

Can the rear wheel be removed relatively quickly? (for transport in the boot)

obviously this is slower then a standard qr setup i'd say it takes about 1min with practice - and it depends on the frame - i find slot dropouts harder than an ebb setup. the 11 is much easier than the 8 as it has improved cable management at the rear. Also when you put the wheel back in you have to make sure that the shifter is in 4th (8speed)or 6th (11speed) gear as this is the 1:1 drive for the hub. also a 14mm spaner bebomes part of your esential trail tool kit.

Alfine, worth it?

ulitimatly, i guess if your thinking about buying into hub gears, you are looking into the plus sides as well, and your op is about the negatives your thinking of. For me they aredef worth it. i hardly have to thing about my gears, just lube the chain every now and then. For me the + out weight the -.

bruneep - Member
for hills no, flat yes.

They work fine for hills - just gear accordingly (32:20 or 22). I spend plenty of time in the hills on mine and not having a rear mech to get tangled in the heather is a real bonus, in my opinion anyway.

monkeyboyjc - Member

Can the rear wheel be removed relatively quickly? (for transport in the boot)

obviously this is slower then a standard qr setup i'd say it takes about 1min with practice - you have to make sure that the shifter is in 4th (8speed)or 6th (11speed) gear as this is the 1:1 drive for the hub. also a 14mm spaner bebomes part of your esential trail tool kit.

You don't have to have the shifter in 4th for wheel removal/refitting - in fact on the odd occasion I have to remove the wheel (8 speed) I change to 1st gear, as this gives you the most cable slack. Anyway, on the 8 speed 4th is the gear used to check cable adjustment (but you don't need to do this just because you've had the wheel out) and 5th is the 1:1 gear.
With vertical dropouts I reckon to have the wheel out in about 15 seconds and replaced in not much more than that - I've cut off the cable stop on the Alfine (that needed that easily lost little split ferrule to be on the cable) and brazed on a normal cable stop, so that's one less thing to risk losing (done that)or to have to faff with.
Spanner size is 15mm BTW.

thanks - forgot, mines 14mm as i changed the nuts for some black ones.

They work fine for hills - just gear accordingly (32:20 or 22). I spend plenty of time in the hills on mine and not having a rear mech to get tangled in the heather is a real bonus, in my opinion anyway.

When I said hills I meant mountains

It did my knees no good what so ever, yes I played about with the ratios, but mibbe the Scottish mountains are bigger 😉

the 11 is a little lighter than the 8

i've had both on my scales - both hubs weighed 1700gramsish.

yes, i'm a pedant.

🙂

Surprised at Stu Magoo's post above -

Rohloff [url= http://www.radfahren.de/index.php?id=443&no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=5959 ]reckon[/url] the Alfine 11 is actually about 200g heavier than an equivalent Rohloff (threaded axle/no clickbox).

Stupidly I didn't weigh Katie's bike before and after we built with Alfine (swap from old old XT) but it's definitely heavier. Unfortunately it has been back with Madison for over 6 weeks with no date for a return (rumour it's been sent back to Japan!).

It did feel nice when it was working

Alfine can be just a finnicky regarding cable adjustment as a derailleur - it is only the Rohloff where indexing is in the hub. I've also had it where muck / condensation got inside the hub indicator window so had to strip and clean before being able to adjust (and riding whilst out of adjustment is supposed to kill then very quickly).

I like my Alfine for lots of reasons but don't think it suits every situation.

I'm just setting up my 29er for a trip to Swiss alps. 2yrs ago did the same area on a 26er with Alfine - it was good but felt a bit mushy on long long climbs. This year I'm converting my 29er from ss to 5 speed cassette (14-32) on the existing back wheel(Hope ss hub and Crest rim) - the bike (as a ss) is beautifully balanced, light and responsive - I just can't face adding a lump of weight to the back end.

the alfine is 200g heavier than a rohloff when you add in the fitting kit and sprocket.
my bike was set up as a 1x9 and gained 1.5lbs going to an alfine 11.

bruneep - Member

When I said hills I meant mountains

It did my knees no good what so ever, yes I played about with the ratios, but mibbe the Scottish mountains are bigger

Scottish mountains are bigger, that's for sure.

Maybe the answer would be the 11 speed and gear it down to get something equivalent to a 22:34 ratio and sacrifice the top end?

You'd need something like a 28T chainring (HBC chainring on Middleburn cranks?)and a 22T sprocket on the Alfine. Goes well below Shimano's "recommendations" of course, but if I had an 11 speed version I'd be giving it a try - I like faffing about with stuff like that.

well its all gone now, BRAND NEW 22T nexus sprocket available £5

[img] [/img]

I really like mine, have it on the HT which is mainly used in the winter, so geared singlespeed. Rear wheel removel is not hard once you have done it a few times and the stuff about needing to be in 4th gear to do this is b*ll*cks, you can do it in any gear but first is easier as you have the least tension in the system. Seriously looking at a pompetamine for the commute. Horses for courses though.

you dont HAVE to do it in 4th / 6th gear but it makes it ALOT easier when you put the wheel back in.....

monkeyboyjc - Member
you dont HAVE to do it in 4th / 6th gear but it makes it ALOT easier when you put the wheel back in...

No,it doesn't, it makes bugger all difference to refitting the wheel - how can it?
As soon as you disconnect the cable it goes to the lowest gear anyway so you might as well select 1st gear so you have the most cable slack.

monkeyboyjc - Member
you dont HAVE to do it in 4th / 6th gear but it makes it ALOT easier when you put the wheel back in.....

er, no it doesn't. +1 Andy R

as a note, the 3 lug the sprocket patten for nexus/alfine is the shame as all Sturmey Archer (except 8 speed SA) - this give you a range of sprocket size options

I like to be able to see if things are wearing out rather than have a 'black box' system which is either working or broken, and when bits do wear out I like to be able to choose what I buy to replace them.

This is key for me. I had one for 2.5 yrs with no problems and wondered if it was actually the Holy Grail. It failed on me at the start of a holiday and the lack of parts/expertise meant it had to be abandoned (the hub, not the holiday thankfully). With a conventional system you can always bodge it somehow and parts are readily available.

No,it doesn't, it makes bugger all difference to refitting the wheel - how can it?
As soon as you disconnect the cable it goes to the lowest gear anyway so you might as well select 1st gear so you have the most cable slack.

because when you put the wheel back in the shifter has to be in 4th or 6th! which is easily to forget, then you loose gears and have to take the cable out again etc...

I've always put mine in the easiest gear when taking the wheel out, never 4th, never had any problems.

monkeyboyjc - Member

because when you put the wheel back in the shifter has to be in 4th or 6th! which is easily to forget, then you loose gears and have to take the cable out again etc...

No,no it doesn't and you don't 😡 - when you reconnect the cable the hub will shift to whatever gear the shifter is set to. So, if it's set to 1st, the hub will be in 1st (slackest cable), if it was set to 8th on the shifter then, when you connect the cable, the hub will be in 8th. The same for any other gear.
The [b]only[/b] thing that is gear position specific is setting cable tension by lining up the yellow lines. On the 8 speed this is 4th and, I believe, 6th on the eleven speed.

Simples 😉

8 speeds are a bit less prone to problems (as far as I can tell from researching this issue) and owning one for the past few years. 11's are more fiddly to get shifting right,, and explode a little more.

[b]Weight[/b] - you'll get used to it, and it's not that different.
[b]Gears[/b] - there are bigger gaps, and far less range. You might hive to try a bit harder.
[b]Maintenance[/b] - there ain't none
[b]Shifter[/b] - does my head in- for the first 5 mins of a ride.
[b]Chain[/b] - get a thick, cheap single speed one. Even my awesome power and errr..... Weight cant break it. 3 years later on my winter bike, and stil going.

All in all, these things are mere triflings compared to the many amazing benefits for the lazy cyclist, who prefers to ride rather than clean/fix/repair the bike.

Only worth it for people with the special needs listed above.

If anyone has a second hand Aldine 8 for sale, I'd like to get another one. My third.

Not convinced Madison have worked out service/warranty on these either yet -

Brixton Cycles just sent some back to Madison, for warranty, as complete wheels. Madison are holding onto the hubs "to send back to Japan", returned some of the rims (not all of them), none of the spokes and a couple of random discs. That's simply not acceptable - this should have been a swap of internals.

8 speed Alfine hubs are definitely 'worth it' right now as they're proven and affordable.

Rohloff hubs are well proven but remain expensive.

In contrast 11 speed Alfine hubs are unproven and 'mid-priced'. Not the best relationship, in my opinion. Interesting to hear that a few problems have surfaced but it's not entirely surprising. A classic new versus old technology scenario.

I'm saving up for a Rohloff hub whilst using my 8 speed Alfine bike everyday...

It will be money well spent. My only real problem with our Rohloffs is getting the screw on cog off to change it (it's a shit of a job). Other than that they've been un-noticable for 1000's of miles.

check out the on one web site there selling an alfine 11 for around 400 quid full set that is mind not just hub.

Glad to hear your hubs have been trouble free! That's the essence of a well designed and manufactured component, it just works and you don't have to think about it.

Sadly there's always a crap job lurking somewhere on a bicycle or motorcycle for that matter. The retaining ring for the sprocket on the Alfine hub is a pain, although practice makes perfect.

I've also looked lovingly at Nicolai frames, including the Argon TR (does that make me special?!) but both together would be prohibitively expensive.

Sadly the Nicolai would have to bow out before the Rohloff hub..