[Closed] 44% not interested in a uplift...eh?

[i]Is there something putting you off?[/i]

The type of downhills that I enjoy are best ridden on a bike capable of being ridden up the hill first. I can't see I'd ever ride down something that needed me to be transported to the top other than by my own efforts.

Maybe a lot of people cycle for the fitness? You have to earn those descents IMO!

and wwaswas +1

CBA. Plus it costs money.

Part of what I love about riding downhill is earning the altitude. In other words, I also enjoy riding uphill. I might hate going uphill more if I did have a "silly heavy bike", but I don't. I'd rather not waste my time sitting in a truck, I'd rather be riding my bike. That's why I said I'm not interested.

been there done that - got bored ....

99-07 downhilling

spent more time sitting in the truck than riding !

So most MTBers ARE interested then? 56%! 🙂

I'd wager that 43% of the people on this site would have a stroke at the thought of their mint condition pride and joy being bounced around against a load of other bikes on an uplift trailer. There is a wide range of quality in terms of trailer and the terrain the trailer is, err, trailed over.

If you don't want to pedal doesn't it make more sense to just get a motocross bike?

Not at all interested in it. Part of the reason I ride is to get away from crowds of punters. Even riding in trail centres you're on your own for most of the ride. The idea of sitting in a crammed mini bus while people faff about with bikes at bottom/top just sounds like hell on earth to me.

Now assisted uplift in the Alps - that's a different story! 😆

Seems like cheating to me. Foolish I know, but there you are.

APF

Uplifts are aimed at DHers, which I am not.

But I would like to have some sessions spending more time going down than up - simply to get the practice in.

I think the answer is self-organised car-shuttling days, but my mates are not interested.

Fun in small doses, but riding far from "real life" under your own steam is where it's at for me.

I like both, but you'll obviously get more decsents in with an uplift.
Saying that I ride to the top alot more often than uplift.

wwwas organic and traildog, the uplift day I went to you could have ridden to the top on the bike I was on, I normally ride everywhere, the uplift day tho was a very refreshing change. Getting tired from downhilling is a new experience (and downhilling all day can be tiring beleive me - not the same as pounding out a lot of miles, your legs are pretty fresh but your upper body generally isn't used to the abuse, mine certainly wasn't)

I'm not trying to convert everyone to downhilling, just saying it's another part of mountain biking and I'm surprised so many aren't interested in giving it a try.

from the loose group of folk i ride with, there are only two of us that have done an uplift day.

i know for a fact that 50% of the rest wouldnt enjoy it, they all love a good 'XC' descent, but that is the limit of their balls/skill. Most would say that riding down the same hill all day was as pointless as running a marathon round a 400m track

mtb is as much about getting out there as getting an adrenaline hit.

I ride Innerlethen one loop of the xc then the rest of the day doing uplift to work on my downhill technique

I am not interested. I don';t go to trail centres often, I like to do my own thing, the idea of a couple of minutes of DH run separated by waiting around for a bus just bores me.

D0nk - what soobalias said - I don't want to ride the sort of downhill that needs an uplift. I don't have the skills, don't want to develop them and the penalty for failure in terms of injury (for me) would be too high.

If I had a day availble for riding (which is rare) I'd rather do a 40-50 mile cross country ride (up, down and across) than 10 or so trips down the same hill.

I like getting out on my bike, away from people, away from stuff, under my own power reliant on myself.

Uplifts are for sanitised riding at a pre-built trail centre to ride a pre-built course. (or so I think)

Not for me, that is all.

edit: I would probably enjoy it however my time is limited and I have a XC bike so it's down my priority list

So why do nearly half here not want to even try?

Because I get a lot of my cycling pleasure from nailing a good climb.

And this (better put than anything I could think of)...

I don't want to ride the sort of downhill that needs an uplift. I don't have the skills, don't want to develop them and the penalty for failure in terms of injury (for me) would be too high.

i like chairlifts, but the poll was a bit vague so i assumed it meant cramming one's bike onto a tractor trailer and getting a lift in a creaky old coach, up what is not a particularly big scottish hillock, for lots of money. i have no plans to do that. if, however, i ever had the money for a trip away, i would happily get chairlifts up real mountains.

I'm a "none of the above" so didn't bother voting.
Wouldn't mind, but haven't got it planned for this year (or any other time) It would have to be a bloody long descent to justify it.

I like riding bikes offroad, generally in the countryside, under my own steam. I like exercise and earning the downhills; I don't like sitting in minibuses etc. I don't particuarly like crowds, or busy trails.

exploring is a big part of mountain biking for me, plus i'm pretty unfit, uplifts would defeat the trying to get fitter part of my riding also..

Only uplift i've ever done was a couple of times at wolftrax to get half way up, tbh it was a bit pointless i thought, only reason i did it was because i had 4 days of riding ahead of me, so wanted to take the first day easy..

In general most people are scared to try something perceived to be hard. I know plenty of very skilled XC riders, who on difficult descents clearly show good skills required for DH but they point blank refuse to try DH and list out various excuses. Some people can't handle trying something they might fail at and prefer their comfort bubble.

Regarding fitness, I'm poor at riding uphill but I can out walk (pushing a DH bike up steep terrain) or last longer on dh runs without a break than riders who are many factors fitter than me for xc riding despite being good dh riders themselves. DH require huge strength and upper body fitness.

organic355 - Member

"Maybe a lot of people cycle for the fitness?"

Hah. The physical demands of a full day's uplift are enormous, more than any XC ride I've ever done.

buzz-lightyear - Member

"Uplifts are aimed at DHers, which I am not."

Not neccesarily... Look at Fort William, sure there's the world cup route but there's also the red route (which is a black tbh but still, not a DH trail). Innerleithen has Make or Brake which incorporates the final descent of the red- the last uplift I did there had a young kid on a 20 inch bike doing the uplift with his dad 🙂 Not to mention a group of lycra-clads who joined us for the last run. FOD I'm told has a huge variety of riding.

And even at places that are more DH oriented why is there a big black line between "downhill" and "stuff I like"? I've gone and done XC descents with mates who'd flat refuse to go and do easier descents at innerleithen because they're DH trails and not for them. It's just riding a bike.

seosamh77 - Member

"Only uplift i've ever done was a couple of times at wolftrax to get half way up, tbh it was a bit pointless i thought"

Yeah, to be fair it's not very good is it. If they could drop you bang at the top that'd be more worthwhile I reckon.

Not all unliftable dh's are 'built trail centre/sanitised e.t.c' tracks.

"Hah. The physical demands of a full day's uplift are enormous, more than any XC ride I've ever done."

That's a good one!

maltloaf you speak from experience?

I don't have the skills, don't want to develop them

This is an attitude that simply baffles me. What's the point in doing anything, if you're going to continue to do it badly? Starting off crap is fine. Staying that way - nope! I love all kinds of riding, and all the different reasons for doing it, but riding the same old trails in the same old way, even if they were great trails would bore me after a couple of weeks.

penalty for failure in terms of injury (for me) would be too high

What jobs do you people do that means you're that afraid of injury? Even self employed manual workers, you'd have to do something pretty serious to not be able to turn up and do most of your job - I've worked on site on crutches before - an utter PITA, but it got the job done. Do you live life wrapped in cotton wool? Not drive anywhere in case you have an accident? Avoid crossing the road?

I don't do a lot of uplifts, simply because in the UK, the riding:sitting around ratio is all wrong, but the ones I do, generally do far more for my skills than any other kind of riding, and being fresh enough to hit each run absolutely balls out, is quite refreshing, when usually you're knackered from the climb and/or saving yourself for the nesxt one.

Hah. The physical demands of a full day's uplift are enormous, more than any XC ride I've ever done.

Damn straight. I've ridden Cwmcarn all day on my DH bike riding up and then running the DH track, and all day on the uplift just riding the DH down. Far more tired by the end of the latter.

That's a good one!

Trolling or never done a full day descending on a bike.

After a full day on the DH course at Cwmcarn I have been more knackered than a couple of loops of the XC trail.

That's a good one!

I've been more bolloxed from a single run down Cwmcarn than I have from doing the entire Skyline. Really, it's a different kettle of fish. Ones a long steady burn, the other is absolutely everything you've got top to bottom.

downhills taste better when earned.
and when you are a big old fat ****er............boy do you earn them 😉

[i]What's the point in doing anything, if you're going to continue to do it badly?[/i]

the type of riding I do I do reasonably well, not brilliantly, but enough to get me by. I don't 'do' jumps and choose not to ride trails that include stuff that is jumpy.

[i]What jobs do you people do that means you're that afraid of injury?[/i]

The only time I tried to do jumps I fell off my bike and broke my hip. My daughter was 3 months old and me being off work and unable to help out with our daughter and around the house much for 3 months put a huge strain on my wife.

I have osteopenia (early onset osteporosis), falling off badly again means I'm likely to snap rather than bend (I broke a rib leaning over the side of a chair a few years back).

I ride within my limits on trails I know relatively well. I'm happy to do cross country on stuff that's unknown but exercise caution.

I don't want another big break - at 45 I'd have hip replavement if I did that again and I'd rather keep my own joints for now.

As I said, for me the risk/reward ratio of full on DH is too high. I accept for others in different personal situations it isn't.

As I said, for me the risk/reward ratio of full on DH is too high. I accept for others in different personal situations it isn't.

But you could injure yourself just as easy on technical XC descents or fast single track.

Think Northwind may have a very good point there, perceived comfort zone "I'm not a DHer" etc. Harder than any XC might be over egging it slightly, but i only did 1 day of DH-mince-lite so what do I know, but as I said earlier it IS hard work.

In answer to some of the above...
*Some people don't like trail centres, fair enough but some trail centre trails are a lot of fun - don't limit/blinker yourself.
*"It's cheating" dead right but some old TdF/roadie guy said gears were cheating didn't he?
*Getting away from it all - yep I see your point but I like riding suburban trails too doesn't make it a lame ride coz it's close to civilization.
*Poky little minibus, other people, faffage etc - I went to Ae, uplift service was good, very little waiting or faffage and the other guys (mostly DHers but some other XCers like us on an awayday) were all friendly. The 2 trails were a lot of fun with multiple lines, well worth a few goes down each, all rollable too, no do or die bits unless you wanted to.

Not trying to belittle your arguments, I don't even disagree with many of them, just offering a counterpoint.

I just saw it as another thing to try, I'll try most things bike related.

[i]But you could injure yourself just as easy on technical XC descents or fast single track[/i]

maybe I should say 'perceived risk/reward' then?

I feel better able to justify an injury as a result of 'just falling off' on an xc ride (I damaged a tendon in my knee a year or so back quite badly) to both myself and my nearest and dearest than I would saying 'well it's so gnarly you can't even ride to the top but I'm going to give it a go and see how I get on' and then coming a cropper.

It's a choice I've made and I'm comfortable with it. It may mean I never achieve all I might as a rider but, for me, it means I might carry on riding until later in life and that's more important.

All this XC, DH, FR is all bolloks its all riding, on mountains/hills/offroad I presume, so if mr lycra clad on his carbon super light XC bike goes downhill its not actually downhill? Because he is on a XC bike. I only have a "silly heavy bike" now and use it for everything, granted it has adjustable geometry, can adjust rear travel between 7 and 9 inches make the head slack or steepish and Boxxers up front. Fitted a dropper post and Hammerschmidt to make the up bits slightly easier and if it gets too steep get off and push. I get sarky comments from people on trails like that things a bit daft or over the top for these trails, I say #### em I like the look of big bikes and Boxxers and when when things get steep and big I have the tools for the job, and the 20kg doesent bother me I just look at it as extra exercise, 99% of us are not racing against the clock most of the time anyway.

People who like riding bikes in "Not paying money to spend half their riding time in a minibus" shocker.

a 20 kg long travel bike - that must be good for the highland hikabike sections. 😉

Donk, how is Si these days ?

This is an attitude that simply baffles me. What's the point in doing anything, if you're going to continue to do it badly? Starting off crap is fine. Staying that way - nope! I love all kinds of riding, and all the different reasons for doing it, but riding the same old trails in the same old way, even if they were great trails would bore me after a couple of weeks.

Unless you're too scared? Starting off crap is fine (etc)...

Downhill has as much overlap wit XC as it does MX. They're all different sports. Not everyone does all of them.

how is Si these days ?

I'm one of the few who prefers climbing to going downhill. Largely because my technical skills are still stuck in nursery school.

It's more intersting that 56% of STWers who responded [i]would[/i] be interested in uplift (presumably, without checking poll).

I bet that figure would have been a lot lower a few years ago.

The objectors largely seem to be the more “Mono-Cultural” MTBers from what I can tell, the ones for whom MTBing is an up hill, down dale slog, and frown on the idea of trail centres let alone DH, and to be honest that’s fine, why should they be forced to buy into every new niche and gimmick that comes along if they enjoy their riding as it is then let them. MTBing should be a broad church and there should be room for all sects…

I think it’s fair to say those of us who do “Mix Disiplines” i.e. XC, Road, BMX, and DH maybe the odd Race, as well as the committed DH boys tend to be the ones who book the occasional Uplift or DH race…

And really 56% buy in is pretty impressive when you consider how “young” MTBing as a sport is and especially uplift assisted DH as a subset within it…

Best venue in my view if you are “Uplift curious” is probably UK Bikepark, if you can get enough mates together for a mid-summer Private uplift you can probably top 18 odd Runs in a day, friendly, very competent people running a great service with “proper” vehicles and trailers, lots of trail choices, and you will be knackered at the end of the day, if you don’t enjoy a day there then it’s probably not for you…

I've been more bolloxed from a single run down Cwmcarn than I have from doing the entire Skyline. Really, it's a different kettle of fish. Ones a long steady burn, the other is absolutely everything you've got top to bottom.

Then you need to do skyline faster!

Back on topic, I ride XC i ride to get away from life and the crap. time to think and unwind, DH has no interest for me. never has. The closest to uplift i have got is using ski lifts in Verbier for those days when you just want a bimble and the only flat tracks are 45minutes climbing away.

I think Scotsman has it right with this. When I read the poll my interpretation was whether or not I have used some sort of assistance to get to the top of a hill. Yes, quite a few times. Chairlifts in the alps, mini-buses in the Sierra Nevada etc. Neither time did I think I was "Downhilling", I was just gaining some altitude easily so I can have more time enjoying the downs. They're weren't all desperately difficult downhills and also there was still some up and along. I like the challenge of a good climb, but I do get bored slogging up endless fire-road type climbs.

Maybe as a long time skier I "get" the idea of being taken to the top of a hill/mountain to enjoy coming back down again. I do agree that coming down can be as tough if not more so than getting up.

mrmo - Member

Then you need to do skyline faster!

or you need to do the downhill faster 😉

"Uplifts are aimed at DHers, which I am not."

Not neccesarily... Look at Fort William,

You are absolutley right. If I was in FW when the red trail was open, I'd definitely spend a day riding it. In fact I'd probably have a roll down the DH run if it didn't look too busy.

I ride DH trails on my XC loops and just I get off and walk-down the odd bits that frightening me. Maybe this sounds strange, but with me it's about [b]feeling intimidated by DHers[/b] rather than DH trails. Maybe it's the full-face helmets!? Or maybe I just don't see myself as an burly, adrenaline junkie!?

Re: Skyline - don't you find the final steppy descent the most exhausting bit? My skinny arms are usually vibrating with fatigue at the end.

Not interested.

Used to ride a motorbike flat out on the dirt for years in Oz, then one day I realised that was all about keeping attention firmly on the next section of track and not appreciating where I was, plus a lot was dependent on how much technology (skill compensator) I had under me.

Realised I was missing out on the best part. Now I prefer to pedal uphill on as little bike as possible and enjoy the views, take diversions, and just cruise downhill.

I can appreciate where I am whilst sat on a chairlift looking forward to the downhills 🙂

If you think lift assisted dh requires no fitness or stamina you really aren't trying hard enough. I've ridden big all day rides on and off road but nothing has left me as exhausted as a day on the chair lifts. As someone above said, I think a lot of the naysayers are more 'single discipline' than the rest of us.

personally, I love the fact that so many of the naysayer are quite clearly in the "I've never tried it but I dont like it" camp.

legend - Member

personally, I love the fact that so many of the naysayer are quite clearly in the "I've never tried it but I dont like it" camp.

Nope - its " i have never tried it and am not interested in doing so"

I have no desire to do multiple runs of a couple of minutes of the same track. I might do FW red once.

I've done "uplift" at FW, it was quite eye opening how knackered I was at the end of a full day riding down the Nevis red.

If there were more places in the UK that offered a gondola or chair uplif I would definitely use them.

Don't know if I could be bothered with the cattle truck and shonky bus type of uplift though

I have no desire to do multiple runs of a couple of minutes of the same track. I might do FW red once

then go somewhere with a variety of tracks. Ft.Bill is the only one track uplift I go on (the red doesn't count as DH...... and it's fairly rubbish imo) but that's long and hard enough that boredom will certainly not be an issue. Innerleithen tracks are shorter but there are several choices of route down

Don't know if I could be bothered with the cattle truck and shonky bus type of uplift though

this sort of comment confuses me - whats not to be bothered with? Put bike in trailer, sit in comfy warm bus, ride, repeat. I'm guessing you didn't put in more than 8 runs at Ft.Bill, so you're not missing out that way either.

this sort of comment confuses me - whats not to be bothered with? Put bike in trailer, sit in comfy warm bus, ride, repeat. I'm guessing you didn't put in more than 8 runs at Ft.Bill, so you're not missing out that way either.

Fairly easy to understand really,

A gondola means you get back to the top without any hanging about,

You also aren't disgorged at the top of the hill in a mass group

Fairly easy to understand really,

A gondola means you get back to the top without any hanging about,

You also aren't disgorged at the top of the hill in a mass group

Never been skiing, clearly 😉

I am well aware that it's physically challenging. The point is that you can still ride those decents with having ridden up to them. I have been assisted by vehicles to gain altitude (otherwise all rides would start at sea level!) However, I don't want to spend a day just riding downhill and being given a lift up. I enjoy riding and that includes going up. If a truck or van can get up somewhere, then in this country it's not that difficult or time consuming to ride to.

Nowadays, I only have a limited amount of time in my life to ride and the point is I'd rather spend that time riding than sitting in a van.

Nothing against DH and if I had a DH bike then I might try it simply because riding up might become too much of a pain to ride up. But with my current limited time, I'd rather enjoy the riding up as well as down.

Nowadays, I only have a limited amount of time in my life to ride and the point is I'd rather spend that time riding [s]than sitting in a van[/s] downhill and getting a lift back up

fixed

I don't see what the big deal is. I've never done one, and while I can kinda see the attraction, I don't ride big enough downhills to make it that interesting to me. Plus there's something more satisfying about knowing that you rode UP the hill as well as DOWN it

Plus there's something more satisfying about knowing that you rode UP the hill as well as DOWN it

epicyclo - Member

"Now I prefer to pedal uphill on as little bike as possible and enjoy the views, take diversions, and just cruise downhill."

I think the FOD people could offer you a downlift service 😉

buzz-lightyear - Member

"Maybe this sounds strange, but with me it's about feeling intimidated by DHers rather than DH trails. Maybe it's the full-face helmets!? Or maybe I just don't see myself as an burly, adrenaline junkie!?"

I can understand that but slightly to my surprise I've found the DH boys seem to be pretty welcoming of noobs and obvious XC jeyboys straying onto their turf. Certainly seem more welcoming than a lot of trail centre or XC riders faced with an interloper.

Why do folk have to be so stroppy about this? No one is saying you are daft for doing uplifts just that some of us are not interested.

Its like dogging. I know it goes on and that folk enjoy it, I could join in if I wanted, however I am not interested ta despite enjoying the odd bit of alfresco nookie now and then

Different strokes for different folks

iv been doing dh for over a year now only because i live near cwmcarn and loads of other local tracks. i would never give it up for XC as i get the same buzz riding both.
but what does pee me off is some of the arrogance both set of riders have towards each other, whilst on an uplift day a few dhers were joking about the lycra guys and taking the piss and other days i hear xc'ers slagging off dh'ers saying they are not real mtb'ers.

i do think doing both will improve your riding and it has for me just need to get my ass fitter!! we all need improvment, and to be honest i would say only one dh track in the uk u need a dh bike for, cwmcarn has nothing challenging as FoD and most others in wales

TandemJeremy - Member

"Why do folk have to be so stroppy about this? No one is saying you are daft for doing uplifts just that some of us are not interested."

Some people seem to be dismissing it based on total misconceptions though. You need a big bike, they're not good enough, it'll be all stormtroopers sneering at you for being a jeyboy, it's only for downhillers... And so on.

Am i the only one that loves both XC and DH. I love riding UP and DOWN on XC routes with my XC Bikes etc but when im on the Downhill bike with little gears, one big ring and weighing 38lbs with 203mm travel with big ass 2.5 Tires you wont see me riding up any hills so an uplift for me.

I have found since doing DH towards the end of last year its equally as tiering as XC.

At the end of the day if you dont like you dont like it fair enough but dont say you hate it if you have never tried it.

ononeorange - Member

I'm one of the few who prefers climbing to going downhill. Largely because my technical skills are still stuck in nursery school.

Spot on, that - describes me to a T.

Although interestingly I think my biking skillz have helped me in learning to ski. Certainly I can handle speed a bit better than the other half, who just freezes.

I have invented a new type of MTBing - "Uphill"

Here is the plan - we ride like billyo uphill, then at the top there is a van waiting to take us safely down again, so we can ride back up.

Who's with me?

Kin ell just ride yer fekin bike who cares how ye ride, just don't ride in lycra with SPD's and no rear suspension, which has to be at least 8" of travel with boxxers up front and you must have single ring with device 😉

"Here is the plan - we ride like billyo uphill, then at the top there is a van waiting to take us safely down again, so we can ride back up."

That would be ideal for my mate Rich. He really enjoys climbing hard on his rigid Ti, and tolerates descending. Although he recently confessed to enjoying some descents at Afan!

On the comment about riders being narrow minded. The friends I've me through riding DH ALL take part in various other 'churches' of cycling. It is quite common for DH riders to also ride road. Most ride XC and of course many ride 4X or dirt jumps. Downhill only forms a small part of most downhillers actual riding. When I was a complete novice years ago I found DH uplifts or riding spots were far more friendly than being a novice at a XC riding spot. So there is no stopping anyone trying for those reasons.

In my experience, if someone turns up at an uplift on an XC bike the DH riders will usually comment in RESPECT for riding the track on a 'small' bike even if the rider is going slow.

Is there something putting you off?

Mainly as I'm in it for the explore, scenery etc and to be honest I've had various offroad bikes with built in uplift and 12" suspension and I've done my mindless tearing about on them (and REALLY enjoyed it), although I'm quite happy to get gf to drop me at the high end of a good one wayer.

Oh, being self employed, uninsured, over 50 and not that skilled are contributory factors.

I can't see I'd ever ride down something that needed me to be transported to the top other than by my own efforts.

"Not paying money to spend half their riding time in a minibus"

You don't [i]need[/i] to be driven back up to the top, it's just better as you actually get more riding time in than if you're pushing/riding back up. 15-16 runs on the FOD uplift compared to about 8 when pushing or riding back up to the top.

more riding time in than if you're pushing/riding back up

you get more time riding than if you were riding back up. FAIL!

Not keen on uplifts for several reasons.
1. I only know 2 places well enough to comment but in both cases its just as quick to pedal up. Those being FoD and Cwm Carn.
2. Why spend money to limit my time on the bike?
3.I hate the principle. Just like I hate cafe's and trail centres. Why come to the countryside then want the features of the city? Go for whats there not what you want there.