[Closed] 2011 Orange Five SE £4,400 !!!!

yeah same here, even if i had 4400 to spend id still custom build it to be honest as i dont like hope brakes, and id gladly take 2010 xtr stuff anyways, as thats a pretty amazing drive train 🙂

People seem to be missing a couple of obvious points on here:

1. Things get more expensive year-on-year (fact)!
2. Orange take some of the pain away from the buyer, i.e. they source all the parts, screw them together as a bike and send it pretty much ready to ride - surely worth a couple of quid?
3. If your going to ride XTR do you really need a maxle, XTR is for XC Jey work, if you need a maxle then potentially your buying the wrong groupset?
4. Orange are a quality UK outfit, I've had the privilege to ride with Steve (one of the co-owners), a top bloke, who's only interest is make top notch bikes..... not making a mint from us the consumer!
5. As others have pointed out there are a lot of other brands making bikes in this category which are more expensive!

It is what it is, either pay or spend several days of your life searching for bits 20p cheaper!

Fully agree with you, apart from xtr being an xc jey groupset, shimano wouldn't like that.

m970 cranks are pleanty strong enough for all mountain work, so are the shifters, and the rear mech is no weaker. the only bit which wasn't really powerfull enough were the brakes. However they have rectified this with the new groupset. So yes, I would get the maxle.

ian - going back in time a bit; I've had 819's on my Orange for about 3 years. They are stright and true. I tried a set of Flows on my Alpine, and they collapsed at Kiroughtree last week. I've never collapsed a wheel in 20 years, and these went after 2 weeks. The spokes have pulled out of the bed, and they have gone back under warranty.

But if they are the best rim you can get, I'll be sticking to Mavic for a bit longer. And I have a triple ring set up on my Alpine, I'm not going double and bash because the fashion police say I should.

We really ought to put the rim debate to bed really. Mavic DT Stans, all these rims will give you decent wheels. Mostly wheel strength comes from the build rather than the choice of rim. OK some rims are a bit heavier than others. Outside of racing it makes no real difference. Doubtless Orange could have specced a different rim but 819 are reliable and a name everyone is familiar with. It's a top end specced bike with a less than top end price ( in comparison to similar bikes from Trek and Giant)

And Merc350, the fault is with the Maxle lite axles being tapered inside the Hope hub. Nothing to do with the frame. The Maxle lite axles have now had a re design and are now parallel to eliminate axle failures.

Thanks for clearing that up

Hmmm, seems a tad over priced - I recall when Orange weren't a boutique brand, more a good value brand. Seems like they've decided to change their market segment whilst doing very little to their designs.

Fundamentally there isn't much difference between a 5 and a Heckler, but the 5 costs 50% more. If anything, I'd say the Santa Cruz had a bit more bling factor...

That said, i quite fancy a blood...

havent the new range of Santa Cruz's gone up in price again?

Nope - Heckler is 900 quid for 2011.

I dont think its expensive. Its specced for the sort who want a bike dripping with the best. You could add another £1k & it would still sell. Orange will have paid more attention to the mid range model spec & price. You'll always get folk who buy on bling not function or need, and they are just offering a product for that sector. To some degree the bottom spec would probably be treated the same way, its a price point they need to offer a product at. They know your typical 5 buyer will want decent kit, but not xtr level.
Be nice to have one though. 🙂

Right,but the Heckler is frame only now right? frame cheaper yes,but dont do full build.

Well you can buy a build from Jungle if you want. My point was more that Orange used to be good value, but now they're not.

Orange have never been known for good value, but are known for being a top quality and well thought out product. I think the price is fair for the kit involved. If you want to bud your own then so be it, but orange an the dealers need ti make a decent margin on such high value investments. All IMO

I really like orange bikes, I love them.
Si, have you seen the spec on the Lapierre zesty 914?
There is just no way the 5 SE compares at that price point! That is what a £4.5-5K bike should be, not a common frame with generic OEM forks, mid-range wheels (at best) and underpowered brakes.
Sorry man, orange need to do a lot more for their customer IMO.

What cycleworlduk says demonstrates that Orange have got their marketing strategy spot on. This is something called "goldilocks pricing" - the expensive one is too excessive, the cheap one too basic, but the middle one is just right. That way they get to sell a whole lot more Pros, and people aren't as concerned when the price of that goes up, as long as there is a slightly bigger gap between it and the expensive one. It's basic marketing and it works a treat. Debates like this help sales of the Pro too - I wonder whether the OP works for them 😉

I like the way everyones totally the cost up - but nobody is including profit, overheads etc

If they didn't make money they wouldn't be around now........

Also look at the increases on something light a 5 spot £1300 a few years back now a £2000 frame........it's all going up that's life.

I have heard this as well from a mate who develops prototypes for orange and another mate came across it in a forum. They have had a problem with the rear maxle causing frame failures on their prototypes...

That's why they make prototypes...............they don't use the public as guinea pigs 🙄

Protos cost money to make etc etc

 

IMO the orange is better built frame than the lappierre, though I'm sure others will prefer the lappierre package.

I don't disagree si. There's no getting around the fact that lapierre have sold a LOT of bikes in the last few years.

getting around the fact that lapierre have sold a LOT of bikes in the last few years.

For sure they are good bikes, just like the previous everyones favourite brand commencal, guess what both brands have in common? Very big backing from large distributors and marketing budgets to suit.

myheadsashed - I'm so glad that someone has actually mentioned the whole 'profit' bit.

Prototypes, Promotional items, trade stands, advertising... all this costs money, doesnt just come out of thin air.

STW does seem to spawn ignorant people 🙂

marketing budgets to suit.

If I had a fiver for every post on here I could have one of those Fives - in a nice colour too.

::has a chuckle at the "sittin in it rather than on it" talk and pictures my grandma sitting on a Z-Bed we once had::

I wont tell you what happened as it will just open up another can of worms!

I'm pretty sure that it doesnt cost Orange £1400 to make a 5 frame and I'm pretty sure that they dont pay retail prices for their components.

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The spec that I specced & got.

EGF
You just proved the point ! You've got a great bike for £3336 at well under the component cost. The Se at £4400 seems to be over component cost!!!!! Go figure

I haven't actually read all the posts but...there ya go!

LOL £ 1400 is the recommended retail price!
Not the manufacturing price,So yer dont cost £ 1,400 to make
Think you answered your own question there

I would have thought a manufacturer will aim for 40% contribution minimum, they will also be buying at oem not retail.

Thing for me is that even if I spent £4400 on an off the peg bike. I still wouldn't be satisfied and would feel the need to change bits.

It's not the price tag that bothers me, for me, it's just what else I could get for my cash and when the economy is the way it is, I think many people would struggle to justify that price.

However, saying all that, I was looking at road bikes the other day and some of them are serious cash too.

Got to jump at the defence of the 819s here, they're ace, I bought them over all the Stans after much debate and discussion with All Terrain's wheel builder/destroyer.
Four times.

As a UST rim they're great.
That's from a DHing clumsy straight-lining fat bloke who rides in the Lakes.

one of the best rims out there. also one of my fav bits of kit. if youcan easily wreck an 819 on this kind of bike then you really need to sort yer choice of parts for the job at hand,not to mention yer riding style.

[quote=Surrounded By Zulus]
Fiat 500 won car of the year in 2008, Vauxhall Insignia won it in 2009, VW Polo won it this year. You're not seriously trying to tell me that winning the "anything" of the year is worth the paper it's written on are you?

There are far far better bikes out there for the money? How much would a Carbon Mojo be with that spec for example?

Apart from the fact that all 3 cars you quoted are basically the best in class you might be on to someth.... oh wait.