[Closed] 1x11 - not all its cracked up to be?

TBH, it's one thing that puts me off. I've always liked nicely stacked ratios for racing. To the extent i've almost always used large road cassettes for racing on the MTB. I'd like to see a smaller 11 speed cassette with nicer gaps (11-34 or 36 maybe) to run with the new x000 series shimano stuff. Either single or double ring.

I doubt it'll happen tho.

yeah I posted that with one eye on a few races this year. The kind of thing I do (gt7 etc) requires a low gear for when you are knackered at the end of the day and the only thiing that puts me off is the weight penalty on my 20lb bike - that and the fact I'm going to have to try to run a cable back through the frame if I go back to a double.

What's it cracked up to be?

By contrast to ghostlymachine, I'm more interested in having a wide spread of ratios, but I don't race and I only generally ride significant distances as a function of getting to interesting terrain.

My perception of 11 speed is that it gives me the same bottom and top as my 10spd with a 42 adaptor (talking shimano here) and another ratio in between to fine tune. I can't see that giving me any performance benefits approaching anywhere near the outlay required.

Like most things with bikes, it depends what you want.

1x11 is shit.

1x12 is where it is at, 10-50 cassete 8)

Just be careful if you buy a new Orange 5. They are 1x only now.

I can see it might be an issue for XC if you are racing. For general MTB rapidly changing terrain means there is no perfect ratio. I find it means I'm in the right gear far more often.

Just be careful if you buy a new Orange 5.

And TBH, the latest shimano side swing mechs, if they are anything like the new road ones, will shift as fast as you can blink. And they need a new cable routing anyway.
So not *really* a major issue.

I can see it might be an issue for XC if you are racing. For general MTB rapidly changing terrain means there is no perfect ratio. I find it means I'm in the right gear far more often.

Go singlespeed, and wonder how people were ever convinced that spending more money on a cassette than you can buy a perfectly functional bike for was ever something they had to do!

I'd not realised we were discussing it solely on the race bike sorry.

Yeah, I like it- all my bikes are 1x of some sort, 9 to 11- but I'm completely unfussed about "perfect" gearing and I don't really like close ratios. I had a close ratio'd road bike and dh bike and I just ended up doing loads of double shifts. So 1x suits me very well, I'm oblivious to what other people might find are downsides.

If it's something that you know bothers you then obviously you should stick with the closer ratio'd options rather than switching to a system that's specifically designed to have wider gaps; but o'course not everyone knows if they like it or not.

Most of the chat focusses on gearing range, it just happens to be the easiest part to grasp and talk about, so it dominates even though for some folks it's probably not the most important thing.

tpbiker - Member

yeah I posted that with one eye on a few races this year. The kind of thing I do (gt7 etc) requires a low gear for when you are knackered at the end of the day

I've used a single ring to solo the 7 for the last 2 years and will do this year too. Not that I'm in any danger of winning mind 😆 But it's fine for my weekend warrior legs.

Tpbiker - have you tried running a different size chainring?

I've never really had this problem myself - only when using my race bike for commuting when I wished there was an 11 between the 10 and 12...

But for xc race use I find it perfect. At one race last year I actually used every gear, which was a bit of a rarity for me. When I ran 2x10 I dont think I ever used 42x11 or 28x36 in a race

Again, it depends on the racing, and where you are, as to what gears you need.
I suspect a short course, lots of ups and downs/wiggly/techie stuff it'd be ideal. Even for the fussy amonst us 😉 )
Anything with any long drags (up or down) and/or a more spread out course it'd drive me mad, always felling that i could be a *bit* more powerful or efficient in a slightly higher (or lower) gear. But not having that gear.

And FWIW, i've done a couple of marathons where i've used every gear on a 2x system.

Pretty much agree with the OP. 2x10 on my X/C marathon bike and 1x11 on my trail playing in the woods bike. I'm pretty cadence sensitive and there's definitely a couple of either to spiny or to hard gears on the 1x11. Not a problem for general riding but would be annoying for racing. As an aside with 29'ers the lowest 32x42 ain't that low, it's taking a bit of getting used to.

But am I right in thinking you've never tried it?
The jumps aren't that massive... No worse IME than those on a regular 2x10, just without the duplication!

Yes, i've tried it. Went to 2x instead. Get pretty much the same range. But more steps.

For me the problem is that the gears are too closely stacked. I often feel that there isnt a big enough difference between the ratios so end up doing multiple shifts

Like I've said before, 1x is not the saviour of biking and is not an upgrade, it's simply an option. It has benefits and draw backs, same as 2x or 3x.

Must admit I'm far more cheesed off about manufacturers dropping the ability to use front mechs then I was about a change of wheel size. At least with the wheel size you can actually notice a difference. Whether you like the difference or not is up to you.

I wasn't convinced by 1x when I tried it last year. I found I was always clicking through the cassette to find bigger gears rather than a nice quick chainring change. Going to easier gears was no problem because you can change several at a time. The big difference for me was going to shimano where you can downshift two at a time. That made the whole thing make much more sense and now all my bikes are 1x11 with shimano shifting.

If I had my ideal set up I would have a 8 or 9 speed but with the range of the 11 speed. The bigger end of the cassette would be quite closely spaced but the smaller end would have far wider spacing. That seems to make the most sense to me.

For me going 1X10 involved removing one sprocket from an 11-36 and adding a 42 so the majority of the cassette remained exactly the same. Maybe close ratios are good for racers who work best at a very specific cadence but it isn't a problem for everyone.

I'm 28 front 11-42 on my trail bike and 36/22 11-36 on my XC bike. Works for me! 🙂

My perception of 11 speed is that it gives me the same bottom and top as my 10spd with a 42 adaptor (talking shimano here) and another ratio in between to fine tune. I can't see that giving me any performance benefits approaching anywhere near the outlay required.

Well yes on the ratio side, going 2x10 SLX to 1x11 XT with Abs Black Oval took just index 1/2lb off my bike

I can see it might be an issue for XC if you are racing. For general MTB rapidly changing terrain means there is no perfect ratio. I find it means I'm in the right gear far more often.

I've used mine for two races and - not being a climber - at Hadleigh also which is all about rapid geographical and therefore gear changes and lots of climbing.

No issues with sprints, overall pace or climbs for my ratios (42/11 & 34T Oval)

Must admit I'm far more cheesed off about manufacturers dropping the ability to use front mechs then I was about a change of wheel size.

1x is outselling 2 or 3x for us by 10-1. Yes we offer 2x on all our bikes but I can see why some don't.

[i]yeah I posted that with one eye on a few races this year. The kind of thing I do (gt7 etc) requires a low gear for when you are knackered at the end of the day and the only thiing that puts me off is the weight penalty on my 20lb bike - that and the fact I'm going to have to try to run a cable back through the frame if I go back to a double. [/i]

I can imagine that you'd suffer on the climb through the Freeride with 1x if you'd only a 11-36 cassette, especially late on unless well fit.

FWIW I've done it the last few years on a 3x9, and needed the granny on the steeper sections - but this year it'll be 1x11 with a 32 oval and 42 cassette, so we'll see...

My 1x11 sram is better than my 1x10 expansion, better than 1x10 non expanded and a lot better than 1x9. I also prefer it to 2x10 for riding, racing and having fun. Can't actually remember riding a triple so can't compare though I vaguely remember that being about being in the wrong gear constantly or changing to find it was the same gear...
I reckon most of the serious guys racing here tomorrow will be on 1x11 and not have a problem

Just gone 1x11 XT 32F with 11-42R after being 1x10 XT 32F with 11-36R. Wish I'd done it much sooner. Such a relief to actually spin on steep climbs instead of mash, stop, mash or just push. Shimano will get my money for the 46T XT cassette just announced too especially if it has a 38 or 40T 2nd gear and doesn't need a new mech (don't believe it does).

Anyone who knows Llangollen knows it's just steep in every direction to get to the good stuff.

Doug, are you running an XX1 cassette with XT 11 speed mech and shifter.

I pringled my mech yesterday and was just about to press that big BUY button on that exact combo.

Doug, are you running an XX1 cassette with XT 11 speed mech and shifter.

Also interested to hear.....well GX cassette and XT shifter in my case

Hi Mac, I'm on shimano cassette too just now. Apparently there is no problem mixing but I was starting from scratch so just went the full Shimano.

Coolio, cheers doug 🙂

You only need to match Mechs and Shifters (and even that can be bodged) everything else is interchangeable.

EDIT - I've kept 2*11 on my trail bike running 28/38 and 11-40. I like to pedal on the downs and spin on the ups. 2* works better for me and lets face it, an extra 200g is nothing to be concerned about.

[I]an extra 200g is nothing to be concerned about. [/I]

It'll be twice that: shifter, front mech, smaller front chainring, front cable and outer etc

b r - Member
an extra 200g is nothing to be concerned about.

It'll be twice that: shifter, front mech, smaller front chainring, front cable and outer etc

Nope.

XTR M9000 DM, 2* Front mech - 118g
XTR Shifter + cable and outer 121g
XTR Front ring 36g

So, 275g if you're being a pedant. 🙂

So, 275g if you're being a pedant.

Plus a few more grams and pedant points for the longer chain running 2x 🙂

Maybe some extra weight to be saved chopping off cable guides and granny ring bosses plus 4x steel bolts.

And some of us aren't running XTR weight kit.....

[i]So, 275g if you're being a pedant. [/i]

At the minimum that rounds up to 300g, not 200g 🙂

tbh I swapped from a 3x9 utilising XTR shifters and front mech, XT rear mech and XT chainrings and cassette to 1x11 using XT, keeping the old cranks and just adding an oval ring.

Barely saved anything as the XT 11-42 cassette weighs 450g...

b r - Member
So, 275g if you're being a pedant.

At the minimum that rounds up to 300g, not 200g

I never round up unless someone else is paying. 🙂

I've just moved to 1X11 from 3X9 as my 7 year old bike was nicked.

messing about on techy trails - 1X11 is great.
Most other stuff - cant see the benefit.

FWIW I love it, changing up the block dead quick at the bottom of a DH is very effective to be able to maintain momentum into a sudden up.

mactheknife - Member

Doug, are you running an XX1 cassette with XT 11 speed mech and shifter.

I can't keep track of what SRAM is what but I'm running XT shifter and mech on the second top SRAM cassette, whatever that is. XxXX2 or something. Works perfectly tbh, the cassette's a little noisy ("tingy") just because there's so little metal in it I think, but the shifting's spot on.

People say it can come off if you backpedal- like, really backpedal, not just a wee clutch. And this is true, but why are they backpedalling?

Northwind, i found that with my XT (on XT cassette). I practically eliminated it by adjusting the chainline. I can´t remember what I did but it wasn't what was advised on the BB fitting instructions.

I'm just going to ride my bike properly, that should sort it 😆

1x is outselling 2 or 3x for us by 10-1. Yes we offer 2x on all our bikes but I can see why some don't.

What did 650b outsell 26" by when the industry and fashion switched? As I said, different sized wheels make for different characteristics, more or less gears doesn't as within a specific window it's the same. Outside that window you need more gears.

Fashion is starting to limit the bikes I can/want to buy again but with performance drawbacks rather than garage full of 26" stuff drawbacks.

When will it end? With cassettes the size of 26" wheels? At which point someone will reintroduce front mechs and 'feather weight' cassettes and we'll all wonder why we bothered. 😐

I actually went 1x11 XTR on my Superfly, and in honesty hated it.

Really missed the range in gears, spinning was so much harder also, we specially when just wanting to cruise up hills.

Still experimenting though, don't thing my ratios are too flattering either,

I'd like to try 1x11 (currently 3x9) but can't make my mind up whether it's worth it

Pros -
One less shifter on the bars so can run reverb lever in a better position.
Over all weight reduction - 300g?
Quieter drive train
Simpler shifting

Cons
200g rotating weight to add to the back wheel
Reduced gear range, particularly on the top end
Will cost £150

Anything I've missed?

I went from 10 years of single speed to 1x10 so I didn't really 'miss' any gears apart from very occasionally a harder gear when racing xc (and then I was probably better off coasting and recovering) and certainly never wanted an easier ratio.
Gone 1x11 (xt mechs/sram cassette) and much of the same tbh...kinda miss the 11t and that's about it.

@rudedog the reduction in range is about 3 ratios (that's comparing a 1x10 using an 11-36 cassette with 40T extender against a standard 3x10 setup). Which ratios you lose depends on the chainring you choose. For a 29er a 30T chainring means you lose roughly 1.5 ratios at either end.

I'm currently running a 32T chainring and by the time I'm spinning out (a cadence of somewhere between 115 & 120 for me) in top gear then I'm well in to the range where I'd freewheel. I did start with a 30T and with that I didn't notice the jump due to removing the 17T sprocket but do notice it with the 32T. I think the jump now falls at one of my sweet spots in power.

1x isn't for everyone, a lot depends on what and where you ride. I rarely use the 40T extender or the 11T sprocket, usually if I have to get off on a climb the extra ratio or two that I'd get with a 3x setup wouldn't make much if any difference so for me a 1x setup is fine.