In hourly rate jobs? I spent years “staying late” “doing extra” at work, before deciding I have other things to do and am not working for free.

I’m not a “tools down at 4.59” kinda guy but I’m starting to lose sympathy for the stayers, or the expectation to become one.

This must be an age old thing. I wonder how much money is saved each year by skipped lunches etc?

I’ve always been at “it’s 5, I’m finished” guy

Work to live, don’t live to work

Yup, fairly strict on it here too, daft not to on a low wage.

In a job interview when asked how I would fit it in as we had just had a child, I may have said “if you can’t get everything done by 5pm you’re not doing it right” Didn’t get the job.

I haven’t had a lunch hour for 8yrs but I get a lot of opportunities to take 5 minutes. I generally always leave at 5 as well unless there’s something very important needs doing. I’ll not stay to do stuff that can wait until tomorrow.

Yeah I’m willing to work late now and then but when it becomes routine I’m out of there. I had a job where everyone kept saying “that’s what evenings and weekends are for” when I said there wasn’t enough time to do something, I was the only person who left at 5.30 and didn’t send emails starting with “I was working on this late last night/early this morning”

I’ve always tried to strike the balance between not being a clockwatcher, and not having the piss taken. Sometimes it’s quite hard.

The “work for free” mentality is a weird one though. My last job in the bank had a manager who tried to get us all to work for free, 15 minutes at either end of every day and short lunches sort of thing- insisting that the 10 minutes it took to set up to start dealing with customers or to make the place secure at teh end of the day, wasn’t work. Stuff like that. So most of us told her to get to ****, essentially.

But one lady, Bridget, ended up working probably an hour for free, every day, without fail and when we said “Why do you do that” said “Everyone else does it”. We were the everyone else she was talking about, she just wouldn’t be told that we were all claiming overtime or toil or just downing tools at 5pm precisely. Bizarre.

My current place is really reasonable, there’s the right amount of give and take, if either party took the piss there’d be trouble but it all works very well because none of us are failures as human beings. This attitude would not work in the bank.

Had this very argument with my new manager a few weeks ago. The shop shuts at 8pm, I get paid up to 8pm, they then want me to tidy up and do a few admin bits and bobs before I go home. They expect me to do this without pay. Once or twice maybe but every day? I think not. Told him I don’t work for free and if it’s to be a regular thing then I want paying to 8:15/8:30pm. That’s not unreasonable is it.?

…never got me anywhere with Pets at Home.

I don’t bother taking a lunch break, or ‘tea’ breaks, but I finish work at 3.30pm instead of 4.00pm, and if I work on for any reason, I get paid for it.

Yeah, I knocked that little gem on the head a long time ago.

I’m fortunate enough to have a good degree of flexibility at work, so I’m quite happy to do a bit extra safe in the knowledge that if I need to take time out for whatever reason, I can do. If the door didn’t swing both ways though, it wouldn’t swing at all.

I subscribe fully to the opinion that’s it’s important for an employer to value the employee, particularly in monetary terms. If you are simply expected to work for free, rather than being considered an “affordable expense”, then there is a lack of mutual respect and no common value of assets.

In hourly rate jobs? I spent years “staying late” “doing extra” at work, before deciding I have other things to do and am not working for free.

Sorry but the clue is in the title – hourly rate – you get paid/charge for time worked.

Salary jobs are different, as in give-and-take.

In hourly rate jobs? I spent years “staying late” “doing extra” at work, before deciding I have other things to do and am not working for free.

If it’s an Hourly rate job, do you not get paid for the hours worked, I thought that’s what hourly rate meant ?

I’m on a salary, so don’t get extra if I work late. But any jobs I’ve had that were paid at an hourly rate, I got paid for what I worked.

Depends on the job, if I like the job then I’m more inclined to do a bit extra for free.
Currently I can end up doing up to 30 mins extra but that’s because I like to get everything finished for the person taking over the next day, I could shut the doors and kick the clients out bang on shutting up time but that’s not me. It’s a charity and they make barely enough to cover costs at our location so claiming overtime would cause an impact.

The wife can add anything up to 2 hours on the end of her shifts, last night was the first time this year she came home on time. For a while she didn’t put it down but then I explained how many hours it added up to and she now puts it as overtime. She works for a large organisation who can afford the overtime.

When I was in a well paid career with staff and proper responsibilities then I worked extra, usually travelling time when I was working away.

Now I’m a lowly public servant, waiting for CMD to lower the benefit cap to the level paid to those of us who are responsible for managing it for him*, I work 37 hours a week and use my flexi time to suit my family requirements.

*the ****

This very thing drives me potty. My missus works part-time, 18 hours a week. She probably does another 12 hours at home. She’s technically under minimum wage, but will she listen? The whole reason she works part-time is so she can spend more time with me & the boy.

Where I work don’t pay overtime. So I don’t work overtime.

They do toil and flexible working hours though. I still try and avoid working more than my contracted 40hrs/week though.

I’ve always tried to strike the balance between not being a clockwatcher, and not having the piss taken. Sometimes it’s quite hard.

It shouldn’t be an expectation that you work beyond your paid hours, but if you are seeking a pay rise, promotion or are just keen to move on up through your career is doesn’t hurt to demonstrate that you are willing to do a bit extra for your mutual success. Do yourself a favour though don’t set the expectation in the first place.

Neilsonwheels that is unreasonable, why not ask you to do it 15 mins before your clocking off time?

Cynic-Al do you expect it to be any different for someone who earns a six figure salary?

Managers know full well what they are doing by fostering a sort of martyr culture. 10 or 15 minutes, every staff member, every working day of the year, free labour…..saves them thousands.

When I worked in CRC the manager tried enforcing the rule that everyone should be in the building 20 minutes before the start of their shift and on the floor 5 mins before they were due to start. This had the almost instant effect of almost everyone cutting it fine and ensuring they walked on to the floor at the start of their shift.

Undeterred, he then took to coming into the kitchen/staff room 10 minutes before starting time to go over issues. Which led to people having their coffee outside or sitting in their cars until it was time to start.

Some people did make the effort, go that extra mile, start early, finish late, skip lunches etc etc in order to climb the ladder and curry favour. It got them nowhere except exploited further and trampled on. They no longer work there either.

I used to quite enjoy the occasional staying late – as long as either fit was your project that was getting finished, or “we’re all in this together” and everyone was late.

Was partly a martyr culture (IT) maybe, we were all pretty young and keen, but to be fair there was recognition and the manager would often start late too; Young startup company, quite often the way.

Kind of soured of the whole thing and now work freelance – sure I’ll work weekends, and late if needs be (and that’s decided by me and the client) but it’s all chargeable..

I had this in a new job in a local bike shop….after a week or so I was informed that instead of finishing at 5.30 everyone had to stay for an extra 15/20 mins every night as the shop was cashed up….this and being expected to sign an unfair and restrictive contract(with a threat of non-payment if I refused) had me out of the door pretty damn quick!

I always took a ‘give and take’ attitude – never minded staying on and getting stuff done if it needed doing, often there for an hour or more, in return I thoroughly expect flexibility if I wanted to get away early or had an appointment, or for that matter pissed about on the Internet in between calls if it was quiet.

It led to a fantastic row when my boss tried to bollock me for leaving early for an appointment one afternoon, much goodwill was lost and clock watching ensued from that day on!

Kryton57 – Member
Cynic-Al do you expect it to be any different for someone who earns a six figure salary?

Yup, and it was for me when I earned high, of course it is.

This is a very timely thread for me, I’m just contemplating (at 7.30pm) doing an hour (probably end up being 2) of work in order to catch up.

I’m the most junior, lowest paid professional in our team, but about the best performing. I’m entitled to flexi time, core hours being 9.30 – 12.00, 14.00 – 15.30 37 hours a week.

I generally take one flexi day off a month, and still carry over 10 hours over.

I’ve used 5 days leave so far this year.

Now I don’t mind any of the above, I do a job to the best of my ability, and I don’t like to leave things unfinished. I’m not scared of work, nor do I think I have it hard in comparison to a huge amount of people, albeit my job is very technical and mentally challenging.

I’ve done 11 site calls today, 70 miles odd, worked 8.20 – 4.50, computer system was down this afternoon, so I now have notes to go on, and another busy day tomorrow as a colleague is on leave.

So, I either have a REALLY busy day tomorrow, or work tonight, which I can claim the hours for.

Fair enough, but my colleagues all work 7.30 – 15.30 every day (but mysteriously accrue flexi hours), work the job to suit their personal life, and none of them did more than 4 calls today, probably 40 miles tops. Our manager values my input, but he’s small fry in the organisation, and they have no loyalty to any front line staff.

So whilst I think it wouldn’t kill me, and at least I’ll have a quieter day tomorrow, and might get some recognition, I also think I’m being a mug. I’ll get to where I want in the department soon enough even if I just float along, my colleagues won’t get disciplined for their lack of effort, and I’m the one who’ll get pissed off eventually and leave, for marginally more money, a lot more stress, and less flexible terms.

My old boss always says just to concentrate on yourself, but after a while being one of only a few triers in the organisation, it really starts to bloody grate.

I am expected to be at work 15/20mins before the start, work the first extra hour for free before overtime kicks in, and have no choice but to stay at work if I am told to do so,(this usually occurs after midnight at weekends, quite often into a day off), as I have no employment rights.
I still just about enjoy the job though.

What you need to do there is what’s called “managing expectations.” (-:

angylad – Member
…as I have no employment rights.

Did your boss tell you that?

If you have to do work for free then I assume there maybe understaffing and possibly an under costing if its on a contract

I did my working for nowt years ago. Not now. Too old for that stuff. If there’s overtime available the youngsters will grab it.

In my view too many businesses get by on the “good will” (or fear) of employees, when in reality they should be employing more staff. Which would reduce unemployment, increase flow of money into the economy, etc etc.

Al, she did.

When I first started at the job I’m in I ended up doing about 100 hours a week for three weeks as we went live with a mahoosive project.

Now we’re all outsourced and the company I’m now in is blatantly making it clear that they don’t want us, they just want our knowledge. No training (then we receive “OWN your career with your training plan!” emails) and expectations that I will upgrade an important Solaris server this weekend based on a sudden email.

Fat chance. Me and the mutt are going for a nice walk. I may have a beer. 😀

@Langylad – police?

@cynic-al – If I’m right, then that would be correct, as he’s not an employee.

I dont even have the first clue how many hours I’m exoected to do.

Up until the end of march i was salaried. I’d almost never be asked to work over, but occasionally would need to go to another site which required a long drive each way. In return my manager would allow time off for doctors and dentist appointments provided i made up the time. Which of course was never enforced

Mrs_d was diagnosed with cancer last june so i took a bit of time here and there for hospital appointments.
Then in February it was announced that our team of three was to be reduced to two. Guess who got the bullet ?

I’m a contractor now so i get paid by the quarter hour; if i work over, i get paid more. Haven’t seen the need to do so yet…

I’m often calling in to work or doing things in my own time for work, since switching as a manager I’m also answering email and phone call regular on my days off. Thing is I have to or I’d get behind at work if I didn’t. It honestly doesn’t bother me as it was that ethic that helped get me the promotion.

Having had to work in places where there was a ‘work for free’ culture the one thing I love about now working for myself is that I’m able to work until I’m happy I’ve done the job to the best possible standard. If that means I work a bit longer fair enough, I’m still satisfied with what I’ve done and the customer is happy. Much better way to work.

If the door didn’t swing both ways though, it wouldn’t swing at all.

That’s the badger. At the minute we’re busy so I do an hour or two over if that’s what it needs. But if we’re quiet I can slide off an hour or two early, everybody’s happy. 🙂

If there was an expectation that overtime was to be done without recompense, I would be less happy.

[cynic-al – Member
Kryton57 – Member
Cynic-Al do you expect it to be any different for someone who earns a six figure salary?
Yup, and it was for me when I earned high, of course it is.

Now see I don’t agree. You should be paid for the value of the work you bring within the working ours you agree to. Say I work for 4 hours today, I bring a £500k deal to the table for the company, and am done by 2pm. Would you tell me to go home and work until 7pm, despite my annual salary being a fifth of the value of that one deal, or would you accept that I go home and have a beer I the garden and start again at 9am the next day?

Now, I accept that there’s trust, and probably a build up to that issue which required some voluntary hard work, early starts and late nights, but I don’t believe that if you paid me a six figure salary that you in any way just bought the right to rule or interrupt my life beyond that of my contracted hours.

Correct Ninfan. Not moaning (well suppose i am), but it would be nice to be given the choice whether to work on or not (includes many cancelled weekends, last minute shift changes etc). Our regulations say we have to do as we are told (illegal not to), but have absolutely no mechanism to protest

Worked in a care home doing the maintance part time, manager worked all hours, came in on days off, she resigned, an old resident said sad shes gone, but a coach load of idiots will be outside soon looking for her job and doing the same shit.

He was right, next one worked herself ill trying to do to much for to little.