[Closed] Will clipless make me better (not necessarily faster)???

No.

Skills? What kind of skills?

They will make you better at pedalling and faster overall, I reckon.

From a skills perspective they'll likely make you worse as you'll get lazy and pick the bike up with your feet rather than using weight transfer to hop over stuff as you do with flats.

Ive gone the other way from 25 years SPD to flats. Definitely a better rider on flats. Not necessarily faster (although my PRs would probably say I am) just having more fun on the way, and learning to work better with the bike.

I use spd on everything.
I reckon it takes more skill to ride flats.
I doubt one type is quicker than another by any significant margin.
Only time i use flats is if I'm gonna be doing a lot of walking with the bike .

SPD's are the devil's work, think carefully before you enter such a partnership.

I was the same, 27yrs on flats, gave them a proper go, had the same reaction as you, went back to flats. I think there's a lot more variables to improve before you get to your pedals.

It was steep rooty climbs that gave me the fear most

faster, more power. You can pull up as well as push down on the pedals. Not 2x the power, but close.

More power yes, but I reckon they make you lazy re skillz

No. You will fall over loads and hurt yourself. People will laugh at you.

faster, more power. You can pull up as well as push down on the pedals. Not 2x the power, but close.

That statement isnt 100% bullshit, but close.

I ride both. clips are better for having your feet in the right place all the time, but my feet feel like they're perched on top of the pedals rather than planted on them as they do with flats

That statement isnt 100% bullshit, but close.

Science.

Clipless will help you have you feet in the right place on the pedals once you have sorted cleat positions, they will help you use more muscle groups to go faster (especially uphill IMO), they will help you bunny hop easier.

I ride both. I'm faster on really technical steep stuff in flats as I ride trials as a teenager and I'm much more confident knowing I can bail at an instant.

I can get out if clips but not as instantaneously.

I'm faster on most ground in clips, I can be pedalling in places that just isn't possible in flat pedals due to having to drop heels to keep from losing my feet.

I'm way faster uphill in clips, the addition of full power hamstring to the stroke is huge, especially of you've done a lot of miles to get an efficient clipped in pedal stroke and trained your hamstring up.

I Have way more fun in flats as I tend to be popping the bike in the air and pulling small tricks, just little things like trials moves and balance passing through gates etc too that I don't do when clipped in.

Try riding both for an extended period, you'll work put what's better for YOU as know two riders are the same with the same experience background.

If i'm just a blob on a bike pedaling, riding clipped in is faster for me. I ride clips on the road.

Racing (DH & Enduro) i'm noticably faster on flats. On steep tech, i turn into some odd wobbler riding clipped in - even after the best part of a year of trying.

So for me, no they make me a significantly worse rider 🙂

Tried both and prefer flats off road. This is mainly because I fall off a lot and it's easier to just let go of the bike when using flats.

Y'know, the folk who ride flats will tell you you'll get "lazy" (whatever that means) and probably fat and your girlfriend will run off with your best mate.

The people who ride with spds will tell you you'll go faster, be more confident, and girls will throw their pants at you.

You'll be the same, mostly. once you've realised that it's just as easy to un-clip; the tight corners will still trouble you, because the issue you're having is in your head, not your feet.

nickc = spot on.

Personal preference basically but not a world of difference.

The "close to x2 the power" comment was quite amusing - I'd be surprised if there was more than 10% in it.

The "close to x2 the power" comment was quite amusing - I'd be surprised if there was more than 10% in it.

I suppose it's [i]just about[/i] theoretically possible if your quads have suffered from some serious wasting disease and lack of strength in your legs is the limiting factor. Other than that, clipping in to SPDs won't magically double your VO2 Max, more's the pity.

It's not x2. But as a regular rider of both flats and spd's it's more than 10%. I find I can recruit hamstrings as my quads fatigue on a long climb to maintain a rate and then bring my quads back in. This allows me to work above a lactate threshold longer before fatigue slows me.

Also.if your quads are nearly spent and you need a sudden hard burst to get over something on a technical climb then bringing hamstring into greater focus for a brief short burst is really useful.

I just find spd's a bit more efficient. with flats I find myself constantly moving my feet about trying to get in a comfy position.

Not enough difference to justify it for me. You could feel the extra power in the pedal rotation on flat ground/tarmac, but I felt it was negated when you got to anything rougher by making it harder to shift your weight around to maximise your pedal output. But my pedalling style on steeper stuff could not exactly be described as 'classically elegant', so YMMV.

The pull up benefit has been debunked somewhere (I need to find the articles, but a few of them - oh and that video above questions it).

Feet stay on flats with big pins and soft soles, so SPD benefit nil there. In fact you can also get a bit of a pull up effect as the rear foot returns and drag the pedal with pins halfway up. No real benefit though. Can reposition on flats depending on terrain.

Getting foot off is easier with flats, and getting back on and pedalling is quicker (night rides I'm on and we've stopped, set off and it's "click, click, click" from everyone and I'm already off). A few times have had to extract an SPD rider from their pedals after a crash 😀

Faster - I'm riding night rides with a bunch of nippy guys almost all on SPDs, and depending on the group I can be faster on a lot of stuff with flats (and 26" wheels vs their 29"). Has nothing to do with the pedals though, just fitness.

Only real benefit of SPD I see is it makes bunny hops easier. Fairly pointless skill to have though (depending on skills coach you talk to. Some believe manuals and bunny hops are essential to drops and jumps, some say that's pure BS 😉 ).

What ever you are most comfortable on.

Getting foot off is much easier with flats, and getting back on and pedalling is quicker (night rides I'm on and we've stopped, set off and it's "click, click, click" from everyone and I'm already off). A few times have had to extract an SPD rider from their pedals after a crash

Getting foot off Time Atac or even Candys is super easy, as in instant, but with a little experience (2-3 months?), as you don't think about it, it's "built-in". I am not sure you could measure the difference compared to flat, short of super slow mo. Getting back on if they have (even a small) platform is instant too, even if you occasionally don't clip in properly.

I have never stayed stuck in SPDs in a crash in 25 years but I am sure there is a first for everything !

One more opinion...

Started riding mtb in '91 using toeclips & straps (and raced XC that way) until I got hold of some SPDs in (I think) '92 - still got the orginal XT ones! Rode SPDs until '98 when I decided to try flats as I wanted to learn to jump properly. Rode flats for 5 years then went back to SPDs in '03 until last year when I decided to go back to flats.

SPDs will give you a little more power - probably is in the region of 10-15% depending on how smooth your basic action is - the smoother your circles, the less you lose with flats.

SPDs will reduce your skills - when I started using flats in '98 I had to learn how to bunny-hop properly rather than pulling my feet up. Having got decent at that (could get over stuff about 20" high) and having gone back to SPDs I was shocked when I returned to flats and found I'd got really lazy and had been pulling up again - cue a few close calls to the family jewels and a steep (re)learning curve - I'm still not hopping as well as I once was...

Getting out of SPDs is very easy once you get the habit - the hard part is getting clipped back in on very technical/steep terrain.

Benefits of flats:
Much easier to get your foot back on and hence better control in really technical terrain if you've had to get your foot off the pedals
As it is so much easier to get your foot back to 'the right place'(ish) with flats you are much more willing to take a dab
More fun (controversial)
More skills

Drawback of flats:
Less power
Winter shoes for flats are pretty rubbish

Benefit of SPDs:
More power
Better winter boot options

Drawbacks of SPDs:
Less fun
Fewer skills

As I no longer have any intent to race uphills I am sticking with flats from here on in.

I just find spd's a bit more efficient. with flats I find myself constantly moving my feet about trying to get in a comfy position

Same for me, even cornering speedway style my foot goes straight back in the pedal instantly.
However after a lifetime of straps and cages then spd's as soon as they came out, the steep tight downhill turns that seem to be bothering OP are the only thing I'd prefer flats for.

SPDs will reduce your skills

You don't forget what you know. I can go between the two easily.

I keep thinking I will go back to flats on the Patriot to get more speed out of the descents, but what stops me is that it does require more effort on the climbs - for me at least.

sargey2003 -

Getting out of SPDs is very easy once you get the habit - the hard part is getting clipped back in on very technical/steep terrain.

this ^^^ x10 I've never had an issue getting out of them, especially with the multi-release cleats. The problem comes in that, in the heat of the moment, with muddy soles you've just dab'd with to stop yourself going A over T, getting cleanly back into the clips, when you need to be concentrating on the next trail feature is very very difficult indeed.

There is nothing as terrible feeling as rapidly approaching the lip of a massive jump or drop, with one foot clipped in, and the other dab'ing desperately for the clip as you do so.......

Drawbacks of SPDs:
Less fun
Fewer skills

see? 😆

It's like the Helmet/No helmet debate.

Science.

that statement is 100% bull

I can get out of SPDs very quickly and without thinking about it - I can also get clipped back in 99.99% of the time instantly.

However it's faster still with flats. I'm thinking I would need to go to flats to beat some of my PRs at Cwmcarn.

do it because you want to not because of a bunch of wierdos on teh internet say it might be good.

i like riding clipped and flats.

flats for fun, clips for racing or anything involving a bit of a pedal or anywhere really rough.

you do learn to commit better.

all the really really good/fast riders near me ride clipped.

all the ones in it for a laugh/good time/shonky one-leggers on jumps ride flats.

I used to ride on spds all the time - loved them. Mixture of time atac / Shimano spd.

A year or so back I swapped to flats to see how I got on with them. Going pretty well - nothing I can't do now that i used to do on spds. End of last summer I thought I'd try swapping back to spds just to compare and I kept nose diving over little jumps (I'm not good at jumping though at all) and stuff like that. Quickly took them back off.

On long xc type rides themed probably be ok, but that's not my sort of riding really.

The number of times I've gone back to flats and then fallen off trying to "unclip" from flats is embarrassing...

Theres no right answer, but I think that if you're a really really good rider then you'll be faster overall with clips.

I ride flat pedals, a few years ago I tried clips for 6 months, I've never had as many big crashes as I had during that time riding clips, it was awful, in the end I felt it was only a matter of time before I had an accident where I was going to break some bones, so after 6 months I switched back to flats. It felt so good, so confidence inspiring, there no way I'm going back to clips on the mountain bike.

It's interesting that some people are finding such advantages in terms of speed. I tried them for a while and couldn't detect any difference in climbing speed (according to good old Strava). If there was a difference it was well below my normal day to day variation in speed. That's not too surprising as my climbing speed is dictated by my cardiovascular fitness (VO2max) rather than my muscles, which have adapted to years of cycling anyway.

Recruiting more muscles sounds good, but I'm already delivering as much oxygen as my puny heart and lungs can provide. The muscles I'm using with flats could easily work harder. I just can't get the fuel to them fast enough.

I still ride clipless on the road though, but that's mainly a fashion thing.

i find with clips while there is an element of 'getting less tired due to being able to use more muscle groups when climbing' there is less top speed gain

the gain is when you are dropping into a linked series of tech (where you might usually dangle a foot) you dont dab with clips as you dont want to unclip. this promotes commitment and better body position on the bike makign the ensuign corners easier.

with flats you dangle, dab and half commit which makes certain bits harder while YOU feel safer.

I will say that coming from flats myself the initial commitment when clipped is harder!

I have been riding flats for about 18 months now (on the MTB, still ride clipless on the road & commute) having ridden exclusively clipless for 10 years.

I'm much faster now which is 100% down to having more confidence than when clipped in.

I don't believe (for me) there's much if any difference power-wise at all (although I suppose having ridden clipped in for many years may have developed the muscle memory to pedal properly?)

The advantage of being clipped in as far as I'm concerned is that your feet can't come away from the pedals (which could be critical in a race situation, I suppose) and that you've never got to search for the optimal foot position, as you're always in it!

'm much faster now

Faster up or faster down?

I have two problems climbing in flats. One is that the shoes I've used have had very soft soles which seems to make it damn hard work; and the other is that on rough ground I get bounced off the pedals.

Recruiting more muscles sounds good, but I'm already delivering as much oxygen as my puny heart and lungs can provide

You may be unusual. I've been told by coaches and physiologists that cyclists are usually peripherally limited i.e. your performance is limited by how your legs can use the energy and oxygen they're given; whereas most runners are centrally limited i.e. the amount of oxygen they can get in in the first place is what limits.

It's certainly the case with me, as if I run hard I puff and pant as hard as I can, whereas if I cycle hard it's the pain in my legs that limits me and I'm not breathing anywhere near as hard.

I have two problems climbing in flats. One is that the shoes I've used have had very soft soles which seems to make it damn hard work; and the other is that on rough ground I get bounced off the pedals

The obvious answer is get some proper shoes?

I would, but I am not looking to use flats on a regular basis so I'll save my money 🙂

Faster up or faster down?

I have two problems climbing in flats. One is that the shoes I've used have had very soft soles which seems to make it damn hard work; and the other is that on rough ground I get bounced off the pedals.

I've NEVER had a situation where my feet have bounced off the pedals - which surprised me a lot (that worry was the main reason I didn't try flats before). Don't know why - maybe my awesome technique, maybe that I've only ever used decent shoes/pedals.