Leading on from buying new forks … I thought what happens if I just go the whole hog …
So I started looking at the much lauded Whyte 130 …

I find myself very underwhelmed by the spec for the price ( considering that the original offering was a stone at 2.2k with Yaris etc) …

Or have I just lost touch … even allowing for the GBPs rocky transit, even the 2.7 K version of the Whyte now seems a little meh!

Not just Whyte.

I have seen some £1500 bikes that come with lower than Deore spec brakes, which is daft given that the retail price is £100 for a pair of Deore and I’m sure Scott or Trek could get them cheaper than that

There are still some very well specced value for money bikes out there. Brexit / Sterling taking a dive makes most a lot more expensive, so it’s a case of putting prices up or taking shortcuts on the spec. Manufacturers can’t absorb everything so something has to give.

Sure, the up coming brexit has devalued GBP by 15% but not the 30% that bike retailers would like to suggest… so there is some profit optimisation in there …
There is a little bit of pushing the brand to more premium …
Bird ( and Cotic) seem to still offer really good spec …
As does Canyon …

Their 2017 bikes were about bang for buck the 2018 have taken a right hike in terms of cost per spec..but they arnt the only ones ..look at Oranges prices seriously nuts

Orange do seem to have lost the plot …
There is always an added value on buying a premium brand ,,, but I would suspect you will start seeing a lot of discounted higher level bikes in April …

Make sure you get a proper test ride – they feel great in the car park.

May just be my style of riding but I was pedal striking constantly on technical climbs and not having Pike’s up front was really noticeable. The reviews and everyone I talk to says my riding style is a few years out of date and they are great 🙂

sillysilly

May just be my style of riding but I was pedal striking constantly on technical climbs and not having Pike’s up front was really noticeable. The reviews and everyone I talk to says my riding style is a few years out of date and they are great

At first I was smacking the pedals a lot on my 2017 T130S (the 2018 has shorter cranks to help). Properly setting up the rear shock, adding some bands, has sorted it out and I very rarely get pedal strikes now.

Can’t say I ever thought Cotic were particularly vfm and don’t Bird just offer budget frames with decent geometry, like On One used to do?

Around the £1500 mark things seem much of a muchness. A posh rear mech doesn’t make the bike ace on its own.

Brexit or no Brexit, prices only ever go up. I think a lot of people have unrealistic views on how much stuff should cost. Taiwan where most of these things are actually made, has been developing at a very high rate. They’re not the cheap countries to get things made that they used to be. People there are more wealthy and wages are rising which filters through to increasing manufacturing costs. The weaker pound is a minor element of the increased prices.

The weaker pound is a minor element of the increased prices.

Shirley it’s about 15%!

Ben from Bird touched on this a while ago, didn’t he?

Companies took the Brexit devaluation hit for a while, without increasing prices, but they have to go up eventually, and a bit more to compensate.

The low £ seems to be the new normal and wobbliscott is kind of right inflation is always gonna happen, but UK’s flagging growth as the world surges on ahead (again partly thanks to Brexit) has contributed to wages stagnating.

Thanks to Brexit we all have less money in our pockets so we are buying less bikes so the bike shops try and get more back.

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/uk-cycle-industry-predicted-to-sell-1-million-fewer-bikes-this-year/022040

Still we are going to get some blue passports

The devaluation is around 15% … but that is not being reflected in pricing …
There is an opportunity being taken…
Which is tickety boo …. but most punters are aid in GBP and that will affect sales …
And it doesn’t seem to affect Canyon ….

Fwiw, Kona have reduced prices this year (but they were overpriced last year imho)

Tho in the States they are much, much better value this year!

don’t Bird just offer budget frames

I like to think that since we design everything ourselves, and get them made by some of the best factories in the world there’s nothing specifically budget. Ok so we’re not going to waste your money putting a lunchbox in your downtube, but there’s quality where you need it and because we don’t mark up the cost by 3/4/5 times they’re just cheaper.

Happy Christmas from us all at Bird!

^^^ 😀

Well said Ben ! Having just got a Bird Zero TR a few weeks ago, coming from a 4 yr old Soul, I can say there is nothing budget feeling about the frame and the build quality is right up there with the big brands.

underwhelmed by the spec

very interesting issue.
Recently read an article that the global bike industry is still going strong – and also the UK bike industry is doing o.k..

But there was talk about a huge decline in “imported bike parts” to the UK. Way more than

15%

.

No idea where this is connected to.
But the OEM rebates manufacturers get are directly connected to the “number of sets” they buy.

The rebates are as much as 90% of retail price. And with these rebates the OEM makes their money. Not with the frames…

So if the UK bike OEMs are not able to get the rebates that’s a big problem then.

don’t Bird just offer budget frames with decent geometry

I’m not sure what’s “budget” about them other than the prices?

1. Very long transferable warranty
2. Good weights for alloy frames
3. Great geometry
4. Full sealed bearing suspension (including shock mounts)
5. Great suspension kinematics with low leverage weights
6. Short seat tubes and long post insertions so you can use the longest dropper posts (so many high-end brands fail on this front)
7. Great customer service (On-One?!!!)

I like to think that since we design everything ourselves, and get them made by some of the best factories in the world there’s nothing specifically budget. Ok so we’re not going to waste your money putting a lunchbox in your downtube, but there’s quality where you need it and because we don’t mark up the cost by 3/4/5 times they’re just cheaper.
Happy Christmas from us all at Bird!

Think I might be buying a Bird !
Thanks Ben !!

uuups – I was wrong:

and also the UK bike industry is doing o.k..

that appears to be not correct…!

Found this:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/uk-cycle-industry-predicted-to-sell-1-million-fewer-bikes-this-year/022040

the bike industry is suffering

Then it’s a bitter situation right now. Decline in number of “sold Shimano group sets” will lower the rebates… Exchange rate makes the groupset even more expensive. One strategy is to move prices up… – or to lower the spec!

And:

Think I might be buying a Bird !

Bird bikes are nice!

If only Bird offered interest free Credit. Even at a modest £2G, laying down that kind of cash is out of the question for me.

you can buy last years bike for a lot less money, maybe thats a driver for the small brands not doing model years or big brands not doing model years

i can buy last years carbon stumpy with a hole in the downtube for less than a bird £1699 …who knew

but then we dont buy purely on price do we?

Who’s selling the carbon stumpy for that price?

I couldnt find one at that price??

Fwiw, Kona have reduced prices this year (but they were overpriced last year imho)

I noticed this, just treated myself to a Kona Wo as my Christmas present.
Surprisingly they have now sold out, maybe Kona have reduced the quantities they are importing as well as prices.

je james

experts are 2200 quid edit my bad its 2500 price matched which was moot as the comp was nearly a grand less same frame

comp carbon ( i have ) 1699

rhyme wsd version is 1530

my mrs turbo levo was only 2300 from them on sale ,

point was with brands moving to the no years business model if you wait and buy last years and save some good chunk and its no matter, thyre going to have to do something when the sale price is maybe showing what trade is and a couple of grand off cmon a lot of people will just wait till EOYS

to add balance if you walk in the shop theres a few quid off pretty much all the 2017 bikes including whyte kona and cannondales

I’ve been to see the guys at Bird and also been to Planet-X / On-One. Couldn’t be more different. The former is a mini enterprise making a small selection of well designed, good bikes, the latter is a large bike shop churning out bikes with high spec parts hung on cheap, off the shelf far eastern frames. I test rode the Aeris 120. Whilst I didn’t end up buying it it is an excellent bike and I near as dammit did. Imho they’re more like Cotic (albeit in aluminium, not steel) than On-One.

@asbrooks we do 🙂

@benpinnick do you really? I just looked through your site again and there’s no mention of it at all. That could open up some possibilities. I may be able to swing Mrs asbrooks on that.

Short seat tubes to run longer droppers is fine if you have stumpy legs- no good if you are 6ft plus. Conclusion is that dropper s need to have even longer drop for larger bikes or longer seat tubes need to be maintained on larger sizes. People do seem to take their exact requirements for their body dimensions and assume the whole of bike design should be based on what fits for them. Goes for both extremes of height or weight…

Short seat tubes to run longer droppers is fine if you have stumpy legs- no good if you are 6ft plus.

Have you actually looked at how long the 170mm+ droppers are? The Reverb is a 480mm post. You’d have to be about 6’6” to be too tall for that with my 16.9” (430mm seat tube) bike.

I made that point as someone who’s slightly taller than average with long limbs (I’ve ridden bikes set up for friends who are up to 6’2” without having to lower the saddle at all), not someone short with short legs. My bike will fit riders from a 32” to 38” inside leg, maybe longer.

yeah asbrooks we do. Only 12m 0% at the moment but more options in 2018.

Just had a look and to me Whyte seem well priced, there new G170C RS is £3.8k for a carbon main frame, GX Eagle, Lyriks and a strong set of wheels. Trek also seem well priced to me £2.7k for the Remedy 8 Aluminium with GX Eagle, Lyrik fork and strong set of wheels.

I guess you could go direct and buy a direct sales bike like the YT Jeffry 27.5 for €3600 and get a bit better spec than the Whyte but you aren’t going to get the shop support.

Agreed,I think Whyte are pretty competitive.

Was able to get a deal on my Kona that made it slightly more competitive, but it was definitely in the running, but similar price/spec to spesh, giant etc .

Unless you go direct sales there’s very little between brands regards pricing.

With less cash in punters pockets, even ’boutique’ brands get discounted eventually, see Intense @ Merlin or SantaCruz @ CRC

@benpinnick, Give me a shout when you update your credit options.

May be of interest…

There’s a guy on FB Whyte Owners Group selling a 2016 never-ridden large T130 carbon works.
Bought new at Edinburgh bike shop – injured hence not used.
He wants £2500 for it…was £4500. A mate of mine has that bike…it’s bloody lovely.
A bargain beckons for someone.
It’s a closed group but I can pass on details if you’re not on there.