THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST

So, there’s lots of talk (again) about dealing with the mass migration. However, I feel there is always an ‘elephant in the room’ regards some countries meddling and never acknowledging it. But surely, if we don’t acknowledge certain factors then how can it get ‘better’.

Wondered what others thought about it. Why’s it happening and how to make it a bit better?

I depends on the question:

Why’s it happening and how to make it a bit better?

Immigration, Emigration, etc? As always there are factors:

1) Open borders across the EU allowing freedom of movement
2) Civil wars across North Africa and the Middle East driving a refugee crisis
3) Elderly Britons deciding to retire in France or Spain.

When you say “better”, I don’t know what you mean – do you mean “better” as in “not let so many people in” or “stop fannying around and wake up to the humanitarian crisis on Europe’s borders”?

Dustin Gee.

I mean better as in reducing theq numbers of people being displaced and living unsettled lives. I’m not wishing to discuss how we (UK) deal with numbers trying to enter. I’m wondering about the cause and effect of the start of the migration of people.

In no particular order….
Merkel.
Arms trade.
EU open border policy.
Russia.
Oil.
Saudi-Arabia.

Despite the above I think a large proportion of the blame lies with RELIGION….!

How to deal with it? Sterilisation for every on the list. (the list is long and very much all encompassing)

Sykes-Pigot and Churchill played a big part, though there has been fighting around the Middle East for ever.

None of the powers recognise the legitimacy of any of the others, and those in power are protective of all the oil revenues.

Religion is the fuel for a lot of it. I think the only solution is to find a way to use religion to end it too. Maybe for once it could do some good.

US Imperialism
Russian Imperialism
Significant fallout from the Proxy Wars fought during the closing stages of the Cold War.

“Dustin Gee.”

😆

That’s it. Thread done. End of.

Tony Blair.

Responsible for what’s going on in Syria apparently…
Iran – Saudi arabia proxy war

The parents… oh and that Thatcher woman…

I’m wondering about the cause and effect of the start of the migration of people.

People have migrated since the dawn of time, and will continue to do so, allowed or otherwise.

In the past it was purely about survival, ie following the herd/harvest etc and then became economic and/or escape from persecution (although for some it is still about pure survival).

The answer? I guess the simple one is to make them feel that staying where they are means they’ll have a decent life – how you achieve this, god knows.

Way to complicated to sum up in a simple sentence, but some of the causes are:

War, middle east and North Africa in particular
Oppressive regimes, China N. Korea as 2 examples
Agricultural subsidies, meaning farmers from poorer/less developed countries can’t sell their produce on the international market.

As to whose fault that is, well everyone from EU, US, Russia well pretty much every government in some way, oh and the UN veto system.

Poverty

I don’t think you can view all migration as negative (Although obviously when people feel desperate/forced to move halfway across the world this is negative, whereas someone moving for fun or to live out the rest of their life somewhere warm and comfortable through their own choice is probably positive), however I would suggest the following causes of migration:

– Instability (and ensuing war, famine etc)
– Vast economic differences

Blaming any one party for either of these is tricky. I don’t for a second think we can stop people who are desperate from attempting to move from one country to another, and I don’t really see what gives us the right to exclude anyone from any particular country.

The solution is to work to stabilise the warzones and bring prosperity to poorer regions. This is vastly easier said than done, but essentially our military interventions (and arms sales) are usually counter-productive and our diplomatic interventions can be beneficial, whilst economically offering technology transfer etc. is probably a good thing and crippling loans and disproportionately hight military spending tend to make a country’s inhabitants want to leave (historically, see the Soviet Union).

Greed, intolerance, ignorance and apathy.

Not many people appreciate the positive side of immigration:

[list]

Human nature innit?

If you live somewhere shit, you want to go and live somewhere not so shit

Lots and lots of places are really, really shit

People have migrated since the dawn of time, and will continue to do so, allowed or otherwise.

^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

When people say they can trace their ancestry to 1066 and beyond i just roll my eyes. People have been back and fourth across the globe either by choice or not and those people played ‘Pat-O-Cake’ with people all over the globe.

If country’s don’t want no more people in then they shouldn’t let people out.

The internet computers and smartphones.

They show people there is an alternative to the shit they live in so being human and wanting better they look for away to improve there lives, you cant keep people in ignorance any more ,unless of course your the boss of North Korea

Apple, Nokia, Motorola or who ever invented the smartphone

Put WWW in the hands of millions in the developing world who would otherwise have never really known how lucky we, in the developed, are ?

edit … Damn you smart phone … you my be the tool of all the world’s wrongs … but you are still not fast enough…. 😆

Blair and Bush sowed the seeds with various random wars, this in turn allowed Saudi money to fund ISIS (and other random organisations) The high moral standpoint of the west that assumed Gaddafi, Sadam, Assad, Arab Spring, Afghanistan were all bad for democracy.. we (the west) created this misery and now we are wowling (northern adjective for crying) about it – you reap what you sow I don’t know how Blair sleeps at night he has indirectly killed more innocent souls than any of the individuals above

Lizards.

Makes you think…….

Islam. At the end of the day, Sunnis and Shia seem to be quite keen on killing each other when given the smallest excuse. Even without meddling from the west.

I blame squirrels.

Islam. At the end of the day, Sunnis and Shia seem to be quite keen on killing each other when given the smallest excuse. Even without meddling from the west.

Yeah right on man, cause no one in the west has ever migrated. No wars poverty or genocide has ever taken place in the west. They just stay put in the country they happened to be born in until they die 🙄 *shakes head and sighs

ISIS (Independent Squirrel Islamic Separatists)

Proper terrorism

Why should we expect people to be prisoners of the state they happened to be born in? Why shouldn’t there be far more migration than currently? Having embraced the “free market” in every country, even the unlikely China etc, and allowed companies and whole industries to move across borders, why shouldn’t humans be expected to follow? Who owns your employer? Who owns the shops you use? Who owns the companies that supply your energy, water and communications? Are they working across borders? Why have borders for humans but not for everything that effects their daily lives?

If we’re just talking about people fleeing conflict… the answer is simple*, less wars.

[ *no, I have no idea really, especially the proxy wars between east and west played out in the north of Africa and the Middle East for generations ]

ISIS (Independent Squirrel Islamic Separatists)

Proper terrorism

Nut-jobs, the lot of them.

I think the countries that are waging wars and doing the bombing are to blame.

So they should be accepting all the refugees.

OP the BBC had a World on the Move day today. Many speeches, I linked to one by ex head of MI6, Angelina Jolie spoke also. I think the stat. was that there where 60m refugees, 1 in every 122 people on the planet. Coverage on BBC website and I imagine on iPlayer

I think one major factor is simply the size of the World’s population today, its exploded and this pressure on resources and potential for conflict have multiplied also.

I think the countries that are doing the bombing are to blame.

So they should be accepting all the refugees.

Or perhaps they should just do nothing and let the populations try and wipe each other out in a “law of nature, survival of the fittest” sort of way ?

Sykes-Pigot and Churchill played a big part, though there has been fighting around the Middle East for ever.

I’d never heard of this before a couple of days ago, but it was totally responsible for the sectarian and religious strife that plagues North Africa now, and has pretty much led to the rise of militant Islamists, Tony Blair and Bush didn’t help matters by effectively pouring petrol onto an already incendiary situation.
Of course, the tribes have been fighting among themselves for centuries, if not millennia, only stopping to join forces and fight any intruders trying to stop them from fighting each other; Afghanistan being a notable example.
History really should have told Princess Tony not to go galumphing into Afghanistan, but the vainglorious bastard just couldn’t help himself.
History isn’t going to treat him kindly, that’s for sure.

Survival instinct.

@jamba …it was listening to Angelina’s speech on the radio at lunchtime today that prompted this post. Her words, whilst eloquent, completely skirted around the causes/details that posts on here have made. Made me question what do people really think about the situation since media talk often depoliticises the causes of the ‘problem’. And it is a ‘problem’ since people are drowning alot and living in squalid camps on borders…or maybe life has always been like that and always will be?

your mum

Greggs steak bakes

Binners.

@eden – got it I did wonder. I think from her perspective she’s more concerned about raising the issue and a little about the solution. yes there is an element of “its always been like that” added to the size of the world’s population now IMHO. Specifically re the Middle East you had brutal dictators and no freedom of movement so the region had an unnatural lid on the problem which has now been removed. Also economically you have many people with enough money to pay $2,000 – $4,000 per person to people smugglers to move them large distances