… to improve over my Fulcrum 5’s? Thinking cost effective weight reduction mostly.

Look instead at cost effective aerodynamic improvement, more important by a significant margin.

Gee Whiz. When I wanted to change the bike I was told the changing the wheels was more effective and now…..

<facepalm>

And what is cost effect aerodynamic improvement?

I’d say that depends where you live and what you ride. if you’ll be doing lots of hill climbing then weight is more important.

Mavic Ksyrium Elites are a great set of reliable, light wheels.

Maybe look at some Custom Built wheels, which is what I’ll be doing for the next pair of wheels I think.

Go for aero wheels rather than the lightest you can find. Wheel weight is over emphasised, but aero is more important, although neither will make you super, only hardwork can do that.. 🙂

rs 80’s

next

budget is kind of important, if you want lightweight clinchers it’s hard to beat AC magnesiums (around 1100g and £700ish)

Budget = circa £350.

Gee Whiz. When I wanted to change the bike I was told the changing the wheels was more effective and now…..

<facepalm>

And what is cost effect aerodynamic improvement?

The wheels (unless you go for a Tri bike, skinsuit and helemt).

I’d still go for something light but not square sectioned and traditional like DT 1.1 or open Pro’s, more like Stans Alpha 340s.

I’m not sure how good cheep aero is, it’s only bee a couple of years since designers realised that pointed rims don’t work on a weel where they spend 50% of their time faceing backwards, have more modern sections trickled down to cheeper wheels yet? Old skool aero wheels the front of the wheel created an aerofoil whereas the rear stalled the airflow so in a crosswind they’d get blown about, newer ones bring the center of lift closer to the hub so when a gust hits them the wheel isn’t twisted.

For £350:
Stans Alpha 340s – £155/pair
Sokin hubs – £60/pair (also sold as novatech, Mr Ride etc)
DT spokes (revs’ or comps) £25
pick a number of spokes you’re happy with
Mt Zoom or KCNC QR’s £30
Ultremo ZX tyres £40
Conti supersonic tubes £10

total = £320

The only thing I’d upgrade might be, dati hubs (even lighter), and some of those carbon rims from On-One if I fancied tubs.

Where were you building this ‘spoon? I’ve just tried the same on JRA but can’t get those hubs….?

Whats your guestimate at the weight?

Look instead at cost effective aerodynamic improvement, more important by a significant margin.

for aero wheels rather than the lightest you can find. Wheel weight is over emphasised, but aero is more important, although neither will make you super, only hardwork can do that.

I massively disagree

Light wheels will make a huge difference to how your bike feels and rides. I had a set of FSA XD something or others on my storck and recently changed them to a set of Reynolds 46’s. Same profile (50mm I think) but there’s a world of difference between the Reynolds and the FSA’s (and about 400gs difference). I’ve got some 80mm no-name carbon rims and they don’t come close. Seriously, the Reynolds are amazing – not cheap but make a massive difference.

If cost is a concern and you’re under 85kgs, have a look at the planet-x 20mm’s. Almost sub 1kg wheel set, although they’re tub only.

Go for weight over aero unless all you do is time trial.

Kryton

Sokin hubs

fulcrum 3’s

Whats your guestimate at the weight?

c1250g I think I worked it out as.

That’d be my choice, as said I’d get Planet X carbon rims (either 20mm for climbing or 50mm for aero) if tubs were a consideration.

Hubs on eBay, you need someone to build them. Or DIY.

cfttom – you have a point. Lighter than Ultegra, £293 on a german website and the added bonus is that the look the same as the 5’s, so my wife won’t notice….

Could be an option…..

Kryton, it doesn’t matter what you feel, aero is more important than weight.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Why_Wheel_Aerodynamics_Can_Outweigh_Wheel_Weight_and_Inertia_2106.html

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74355&start=0

I like the look of building those wheel. Not sure its within my skill range though :-/

Kryton, it doesn’t matter what you feel, aero is more important than weight.

I had some Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 clinchers, weight was exactly the same as the Race X Lite alu clinchers they replaced. On the flat/downhill they were awesome, but on (steeper) climbs they really felt awful. Not necessarily much slower (don’t honestly know), but made me very wary of heavier deep section wheels.

So on paper the difference may be biased towards aero, but lighter wheels (I’ve also had some XXX Lite tubs at 1150g), and they felt incredibly, so sprightly) feel better IMO.

Want to try some light aero wheels though, which means tubs again.

How about EA90 Aero’s on CRC, 1545g and 28/32 rim depth? £323 – good compromise at my price point?

Forget I said that 😳

If you are racing or genuinely want to go fast, then aero.

BUt light wheels will feel nicer. I’ve got TINAS’ choice bar a 32H rr 105 hub for ease of spares etc. I’d recommend tubeless also.

… to improve over my Fulcrum 5’s

Easy. Fulcrum Racing 1. How do I know? I’ve ridden Racing 5 and Racing 1 on the same bike and now own the Racing 1.

So…. EA50’s at 1750g’, £290 the pair just aren’t worth it?

Lets put it in perspective, I’m riding road to train for MTB and club rides in the winter / when the trails are rubbish, or about twice a week, I love going my version of fast (last 18.7mph over 60k), on a 1k bike.

If I’m going to pay £600 to make that 18.7 into 19 mph, I may as well buy the 2011 giant TCR Advanced I found for £1500 in the sales and be done with (well, sell) the Trek and lose 3 1/2lbs that way.

Unless my lack of roadie experience means you are telling me non of that will make me much faster ’cause its a question of man over machine.

Your’s, confused from London x

Me, personally – I’d always spend the money on better wheels. Like these

Planet X Pro Carbon 50

£350. Set of half decent tubs and a bottle of sealant just in case and off you go. Actually, I’d go for these, but then I don’t agreed on the whole aero > weight thing.

20mm tubs

If you don’t want the faff of tubs, I’d go for a decent set of handbuilt wheels, or hope hoops. Not light, not aero but if you’re only interested in training for the MTB then reliability over all out speed is surely more important?

Unless my lack of roadie experience means you are telling me non of that will make me much faster ’cause its a question of man over machine.

This is probably the truth. Off the peg £8-900 bikes now are probably as good as pro tour bikes from 10 years ago, maybe not exactly but you get the idea, but we’re not all riding around as fast as them.

What are all the Tour boys using, or does it depend if they’re TTing or up in the mountains?

OP that money really is burning a hole in your pocket!

Or split the difference between the bike & the wheels and buy this:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FBPXPRORIV12/planet_x_pro_carbon_rival_road_bike_2012

Then I get what I’ve been asking for in all my threads – lighter / carbon bike, cheap price, not bothered about troubling sportives (although I may try one)?

Edit – cynic-al there is a reason – I’ve limited time to get a new bike/bits, after which opportunity is gone. So its do it now or live with the Trek. What about the planet x then, I reckon that cost me £600 if I can sell the trek for £400?

Another build could be the Veloity A23 Novatec A291 SB front hub and Novatec F482 rear hub. I would use Sapim laser front and NDS rear and Sapim Race DS rear (to improve stiffness of the rear wheel). Spoke count will depend on your weight.

Front hub is 82g
Rear is 245g
Rims are 435g each
Sapim Brass nipples are 0.9g each (12mm)
Sapim polyax alloy nipples are 0.2g each (12mm)
Figure each laser spokes is 4.75g each and each Race spoke ~6.25g each.

So the total weight of the wheel for a 24/28H build would be (I hope you are about 75kg or less) ~1510g I like the velocity A23 as rolling resistane with a 23mm tyre is less than the same tyre on a narrower rim. The tyre take on a semi circular profile like a tub would because the rim is so wide.

For a really stiff low spoke ount wheel then use the Kinlin XR270 rim or the Kinlin XR300. Weight makes a (small) difference but the rider makes a bigger differene. It cheaper to lose weight from your tyre/tube choice first. Weight is not everything though. I have a 25lb bike when it is fully kitted out with mudguards, bottles e.t. I see that as good training.

Other than that to go lighter you will have fork out for a stans rim or going with low profile carbon tubs.

For areo rims you really need to start looking at 50mm deep rim and tubs(3:1 depth to width ratio is a good starting point) but only do this if you use the bike for serious TT.

rolling resistane with a 23mm tyre is less than the same tyre on a narrower rim.

By an utterly infinitesimal amount, yes.

Not sure about deep aero rims unless racing.

These are light and cheap – anyone tried them? Flexy?

8:16 SP Wheelset – Stans Alpha340 £251.99

Weight 590g front 760g Rear

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=65&products_id=520

Hmm. Those Superstars would lose me 1lb in rotating weight and are slightly aero – for £250….!

If you are racing or genuinely want to go fast, then aero.

+1. I tried some 50m deep section wheels the other day. They were amazing (compared to my ultegras, which i now don’t want to ride anymore) 🙄 I’m now ordering some asap but they are ££, even at trade price. I would def go aero over lighter (but then i’m racing and want to go faster too).

Unless my lack of roadie experience means you are telling me non of that will make me much faster ’cause its a question of man over machine.

Wheels will help a bit, but you need to train better/smarter to get faster.