There's no need to loose sound quality from CD if you rip 'em in the right format and bitrate.
My vinyl was ripped years ago and got rid apart from 50 or so that cost a friggin' fortune, like this - Metropolis that i gave £25 for, and a few like the stuff Blue Amazon put out, Fishbone Beat and Ideal which are really hard to get hold of, and i'd cry lots if the hardrive they were stored in crashed.
CD's got ripped as soon as bought, and get used in crappy hi fis and car stereos.

The rest i D/L from the likes of Juno at the highest bitrate, and stuff where the quality dont matter i rip from youtube at the best bitrate i can find.
You set the levels or clean up the sound with programmes like Audacity

Actually after listening to that youtube link i posted up there, its a better rip then the one i did off my own vinyl, so i'm gonna D/L that too!

I'm sorry I missed the last debate about "reference level". I doubt I'd have understood a word, but the spectacle of a prickly and dogmatic rationalist-atheist arguing with the entire internet about whether it was an objective fact that a song sounded perfect when played through a particular hog-whimperingly expensive hifi must have been quite something. 🙂

Surf-Mat – Member
My system is called a "Reference" system but wasn't very expensive at all…

Then you are either in possession of meaningless badging, or you have yourself a bargain in which case, congratulations.

My system just says "NAIM".

Real reference speakers:

http://www.genelec.com/products/

It was, you missed a treat for sure…

I'm sorry I missed the last debate about "reference level".

Strange how you know what happened, then…

… aaaaaand, this is me getting off the roundabout. 8)

I buy CD's online (cheaper than itunes) and rip to PC at 128K AAC which apparently gives effectively the same quality as 256K MP3 because of the better algorithm.

Can anyone in the know confirm this or shoot it down?

IMO most people would be pushed to tell the difference between a CD and a 256K encoded MP3

You'd only tell the difference at those bitrates on a high end club rig to be honest, 128 should be sufficient for most home or car audio from the mainstream electronics shops.

I have Naim gear and not sure it's considered reference but still; I just like the fact music sounds exciting through it. You may not realise how dull many systems sound until you hear something more high-end – but of course ignorance is bliss.

getting off the roundabout

This is a shame.

Presumably, the true test of whether a system is "reference level" is whether one can hear God's love for the world through it. If one cannot, then either the speaker cables are the wrong way round, or the listener has the wrong kind of ears. 🙂

Woppit – Mine says "Reference" in big letters then" Meaningless Badging" in small type. What hifi loved in anyway as did a few other mags. I just like their (not saying who as I'm not entering into this knob waving competition) kit – same with the speakers. They just work and work well; with the correct cabling of course 😉

My system just says "NAIM".

explains this:

dogmatic rationalist-atheist arguing with the entire internet

perfectly.

Or, as a friend once put it: people who have Naim hifis would have you believe that a split condom branded "naim" is better than industry standard.

Mr Woppit is Mick Parry, and I claim my £5.

I have Naim gear … I just like the fact music sounds exciting through it.

I can think of no better reason to spend your hard-earned money on it.

OOoo,
Still going.
My old man used to work in broadcasting and although they used top kit, would always wire speakers with standard two core mains wiring.
Still got the LS3/5a that he made..

All our CDs are just ripped into iTunes with no tweaking of the settings (don't even know if you can tweak the settings…).

A CD played through our DVD/CD player/amp/speakers reveals more detail than either of our iPods plugged into the same setup. I'm sure playing music from my 'phone would produce the same results.

Listening to the iPod or the 'phone in the car using a transmitter (agreed that transmitters have issues!) is fine as there is so much extraneous noise that it doesn't make any noticable difference what the source is (although I have never tried the iPod v CD comparison) but I would always put a CD on for music in the house (although I prefer vinyl if there is a choice!).

Having said all of which I tend to listen to the music not the equipment anyway, if you see what I mean.

I agree with whoever said that women tend to be able to hear differences between systems but are less likely to be obsessed with what's playing the music!

Mmmmm, Dark Side of the Moon played VERY loud and VERY late at night on vinyl…

I rip my cd's at 320kb, which sounds perfectly adequate to my ears. The test: does a loved piece of music send shivers down my back, and all the hairs on the back of my neck to standing up? Yes, quite categorically. People have been listening to music and getting enormous pleasure from it on little tranny radios, small portable cassette players, ( with tapes recorded by holding a mic in front of the speaker of the tranny or the Dansette record player, in my case), and still get a big emotional response every time an old favourite gets played. Songs ripped at 320kb AAC reveal huge differences in the quality of the original mastering when played through quality 'phones, and If the ripped track allows you to hear subtleties like the singers lips opening just before he sings, in the case of Guy Garvey on an Elbow song I was listening to the other evening. My audio system consists of a Yamaha DSP-AX2 amp, Sony Chorus speakers, and a Cambridge Audio DVD99 Cd/SACD/DVD-A player, which proves perfectly capable of playing my CD's in such a way that I get enormous emotional pleasure from them, but I get an equal amount of pleasure from the same music played on my iPod or iPhone. To the extent that I've just bought a pair of pro-quality monitor 'phones that retail for around £230-40. Mine were £160, from eBay, tho'. I intend to get a Mac Mini next year and plug it into my hifi, and play a lot of my music through that, but, and it's a big but, I will not get rid of my CD's; they're a hard-copy backup, and significant numbers are signed by the artists, like my Portishead and Goldfrapp albums, so while I could probably get a good price for them, despite what Beth Gibbons said when she signed my albums, I'll never get rid of them.

Having said all of which I tend to listen to the music not the equipment anyway, if you see what I mean.

I think that's the difference between hifi lovers and music lovers 😉

Anyone interested in any Hi Fi seperates? NAD amp, Dual Turntable, Technics CD player, Sony Mini Disc player, Monitor Audio speakers and Mordant Short speaker stands. If so I'll stick em on the Classifieds when I can take some pics.

Have had music collection as flac on a mini squeezebox server for years now but I must admit I miss buying cds, downloading seems to dumb down purchasing, too quick & easy to delete if you don't get on with it, though fantastic for previewing tracks.

Never throwing away my cds though.

I used to pay £5 per 12", often just for one tune. And somehow I afforded it whilst a student?! And now I can hardly afford to buy downloads…weird. Anyway there's so many free mixes on mp3 now I hardly need to buy anything.

And meanwhile a friend has just got into vinyl, buying a crazy expensive, ergonomically backwards, over engineered deck. Paying £35 for albums on ebay – madness. They may sound lovely… well, they would do if he wasn't scared of his neighbours and actually turned the amp past 1.

Now that's progress

"I think that's the difference between hifi lovers and music lovers"

Not really. The recording detail was put there to enjoy. But hifi equipment can get obsessive like hi-end bikes.

clubber – Member

Having said all of which I tend to listen to the music not the equipment anyway, if you see what I mean.

I think that's the difference between hifi lovers and music lovers

Well put me in the music lover bracket then – but I do like as much detail as is appropriate for the occasion…

All our CDs are just ripped into iTunes with no tweaking of the settings (don't even know if you can tweak the settings…).

A CD played through our DVD/CD player/amp/speakers reveals more detail than either of our iPods plugged into the same setup. I'm sure playing music from my 'phone would produce the same results.

You can tweak them and I think the default is 128kbps AAC

I think that's the difference between hifi lovers and music lovers

of course ignorance is bliss.

Listening to them 😀

Lol @ the sensitive souls…

Good music + crap hifi
Crap music + good hifi
Which is best?

Music and how it is replayed is purely subjective, just like art, food, wine and different mtb's – so if you enjoy it on a £200 hi-fi that's perfectly acceptable – just as riding a £500 mtb and still smiling after a good ride.
I'm keeping my CDs as I've changed my player a few times and I've made the sound better each time (IMHO) so who knows where technology will take us and as high-end players get cheaper second-hand. I've bought all my hi-fi second-hand and saved a massive amount against new and it's all decent stuff.I also enjoy the flat earth stuff and much prefer vinyl and all the things that go with that too 🙂

I just like their (not saying who as I'm not entering into this knob waving competition) kit

No one told me this was about willy waving! I have got an awesome, ancient Meridian amp which sings through a set of B&W floorstanders. They are both things of utter beauty (though to look at the amp it looks like it was ripped out of a tank). I paid about £500 for the lot over the years including repairs and some bits of it are older than me. It was state of the art at the time and things haven't really come that far in 30 years so it kicks the living bejeesus out of most of the Richer Sounds seperates kit that I hear these days.

I don't do it because I have to have the latest toys or because I am more into hifi than music, I do it because when you get a really high quality piece of music in a really high quality recording played over a high quality hifi is sensational.

I have a high quality (1200kbps+) rip of a vinyl master copy of Band of Gypsies and it blows you away. The tech is just a gateway to the experience, surely as a bunch of fat middle aged off road cyclists you can appreciate that? 😉

Torm – fair enough, I just cringed when brands started being bandied about. I'm chuffed that I got a great system (properly acoustically set up) for not a lot of outlay. The names are all "big" but irrelevant IMO but it goes down to details like isolated mains supplies, geeky interconnects and slightly daft speaker cable.

Just makes good music sound as it should IMO. Mainstream/low bitrate MP3s just don't do that even through a good system IMO.

Damn straight.

I have this mental itch that starts whenever I begin to dig into the law of diminishing marginal returns.

How long is the OP's hair? Ideally, s/he should have their head extremely short to reduce the static around the hair follicles interfering with the soundwave reverberation between the speaker and the ear. #0 or #1 clipped hair is OK but I prefer a full wet shave as I think you cut down some of the toppiness you get with bristle.

I find using one of those little shaver jobbies to remove ear hair improves the seal with my canal 'phones thus improving the bass response.

I find using one of those little shaver jobbies to remove ear hair improves the seal with my canal 'phones thus improving the bass response.

I can't tell if you are serious.

Just need more room in the flat.

Are we all overlooking the obvious here? My brother is a bit of an expert in compact living, having a wife and two children and living in a one room studio flat.

If the CD collection is taking up space, but they haven't been made redundant – ie you haven't already ripped them all into itunes and stopped playing the discs – then just throw away the cases and keep the discs and inlay card in one of those polypocket CD albums. Same goes for your DVD collection.

I can't tell if you are serious.

That was the intention. Although, canalphones are supposed to have a good fit to get the best sound, and if yer lugholes are really hairy that's not going to happen, so there's logic behind it.

I still like to buy CDs, it's an instant back up, they're covered on the house INS, something to note: download collection aren't always covered by all policies. I like the sleeve artwork too 🙂

I would like to add a small point here about frequency extensions and file formats etc.

It's well known that the adult human ear cannot 'hear' sounds much above 18Khz which is often the case people make for there being no impairment of musical quality for MP3 compressed to 128k/bits etc etc.

The problem is that while the human ear may not directly hear sounds above 18khz, it can hear the effect that these sounds have on the rest of the very audible spectrum. A lot of high end audio, especially upsampling CDs that look to put back what even CD takes out of the audio spectrum (this is why vinyl still sounds so good – because actually CD is also restricted in bandwidth) are doing this because the missing information interacts with the rest of the sound with positive effect.

I'm having a think about whether I think that's Hifi buff BS or not geetee 🙂

I suspect that vinyl sounds 'nicer' because it's more rounded which may actually be less like the original sound than digitally recorded sound (eg CD) – a bit like setting a graphic equaliser to your preferences 😉

Or to take a bike analogy, like riding a full susser on rough ground. It may feel nicer but it's a less accurate representation of what you're riding on.

Clubber – it's true that I've got the hypothesis from reading HiFi literature, but I've always had the impression that it's scientifically based. It's certainly very plausible as science if you think about it; sound waves are physical things within an enclosed system so it's intuitive that they will interact with each other and that if you remove them you'll change the system (classic systems theory).

I know there is a lot guff from HiFi buffs (I'll confess to being one as well) but most of the guff is just that if it's not accompanied by someone sitting in their living room/music room and actually enjoying the music.

People like to tinker though, whether that be HiFi or bikes.

Sound waves are just variations in pressure though and while I can accept that there might be the possibility for interaction (for a start air is damped) I still can't help but feel that it's BS to try and justify why CDs just aren't as good as vinyl.