Uncle in care home & staff 'issue' dilemma!

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Uncle in care home & staff 'issue' dilemma!

93 posts & 25 voices | Started 6 months ago by esselgruntfuttock | Latest reply from esselgruntfuttock

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esselgruntfuttock - Member

Bear with me on this please. I have an uncle in a care home to whom I have lasting power of attorney, he's ok mentally but not really able to write anymore. anyway he's a very charitable old fella & regularly gives dosh away to all kinds of charidees, last week when I was there he asked me to write out 3 cheques, one to Ycare International, one to the RNLI & another to the son of a careworker at the home. ('breaking the rules', his words.) This cheque was for 2K. Now one way or another this worker has mentioned that her son has 'fallen on hard times' (who Uncle has never met)& has written down her sons address.
I reckon I should have a word with this worker before I speak to the home manager in case there's some 'innocence' involved. (not convinced about that as why would she write his address?)
What are the collective's views?

i have already anticipated, 'write a cheque out to me' etc.

Posted 6 months ago #
luke - Member

I'm sure it is bound to break some of the homes rules.
Think of it this way, say 10 people in the home 2k a year is 20k tax free for little effort.
I'd report it.

Posted 6 months ago #
nedrapier - Member

tricky, but you're responsible for conducting your uncle's financial affairs in a proper manner, so it's your appointed duty to investigate and make sure it's a bona fide request.

Trickiest bit might be the conversation with your uncle...

Edit: no judgement made on whether the request could in any way be bona fide, or even allowable by home rules even if it was.

Edit again: didn't really read your question. You probably know all that ^. Speak to worker first, I would.

Posted 6 months ago #
meehaja - Member

Sackable offense. Clearly taking advantage of someone in their care.

I get offered money and gifts all the time, usually just some chocs, sometimes large sums of cash. Professional integrity says I don't accept cash and only gifts of chocs etc with low value.

Posted 6 months ago #
nealglover - Member

Speak to the worker first I would say.

She may be totally unaware of whats happening, and appalled at the thought that he is planning to send her son money and ask you not to do it ?

You never know, it certainly sounds A bit suss at first glance, but there may be an innocent explanation. And it's her job on the line if you speak to anyone else first.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Bang out of order especially if your uncle has not even met the boy. I do hope you didn't write the cheque?

It will be against the homes rules, its quite possibly criminal, I would sack the worker on the spot if I were the manager. Writing down the sons address is where it steps over the line. There can be no innocent explanation - the worker must know this is unacceptable

teh worker should know its not on. I would not speak to the worker at all. Go direct to the manager and you must insist on knowing he outcome. if you don't get satisfaction go to the care commision ( or whatever the regulators are called in England)

Posted 6 months ago #
khani - Member

Report it, immediately, to the home and further up, this is abuse..no excuses..the end.

Posted 6 months ago #
shortbread_fanylion - Member

I think the law is a little different in England (I work in Scotland) so the terminology may be different but how do you have financial power of attorney if your uncle is 'ok mentally?' This is only granted when the person has lost capacity to make the decisions him/herself. If you have power of attorney you control your uncle's finances - so just don't write the cheque to the care worker's son!

As others have said speaking to the relevant people will help clear things up and find out what's been going on. I'd start with the manager but get some advice from the Care Quality Commission perhaps? Does your Uncle have a Social Worker? If not the relevant team will have a duty worker/system that could help. Just don't ring on Wednesday 30th

Posted 6 months ago #
crikey - Member

Gently investigate. It's against the rules, but then again, if I was an old man, with spare cash, and I was offered an opportunity to make someone's life better, I would, for better or for worse.
Gently...

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

shortbread_fanylion

You can grant power of attorney at any time - My parents had it for me when I was abroad and I have it for them as a precaution should they become incapacitated. Its much easier to do it before people lose capacity then after.

there can be no mix up - the care worker wrote down the sons address. This is abuse and must be addressed as such.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

http://www.elderabuse.org.uk/
if you need more help and guidance

the reason he care worker will have suggested her son is to try and get around the rules of the home that forbid staff taking any gifts

Posted 6 months ago #
esselgruntfuttock - Member

Shortbread, I have lasting power of attorney because this was his wish in case he became unable to conduct his own financial affairs, all set up by his solicitor, his bank (of which he is an ex manager) & most importantly, The Office of the Public Guardian, who must approve any contract.
TJ, I wrote the cheque out, however It's been sat on the kitchen table for a week!
I think most people have confirmed my thoughts & backed up my intentions.

Posted 6 months ago #
dangerousbeans - Member

IF the worker has given the son's address to your uncle then yes, there are serious grounds for investigation and dismissal.

IF some other sequence of events has occurred (could be anything, I'm not psychic so don't know) then the outcome may be very different.

Just as an example that has occurred in my area of practice recently seemed to have no innocent explanation but, in fact, had.

Leading on from this are you sure that your uncle has not got the address details from someone else - you need to ascertain the facts from him before doing anything else.

Posted 6 months ago #
mrmo - Member

my SO has occasionally been given gifts by residents, by gifts we are talking a box of chocolates, a fiver for doing some errands, that sort of thing. Technically against the rules but small tokens gifts have been ignored.

What you are describing is way beyond the line of acceptable.

Posted 6 months ago #
project - Member

As TJ says, they should be instantly sacked,its abuse off power, report it immediately in writing to the home manager, and the care quality commision aand also the Pova co- ordinator(protection of vulnerable adults) at the local authority,demand they take action, orthey may not and if she is doing it to one vulnerable patient she may be milking more residents, and they may willingly be paying over large sums of cash .

Oh and when all the money is gone who is going to pay the care home top up fees.

Posted 6 months ago #
ratadog - Member

IF the worker has given the son's address to your uncle then yes, there are serious grounds for investigation and dismissal.

+1

I think you have to take this further - how you do it is up to you but the correct way forward I think is to go to the home's management and if they cannot give an acceptable explanation then social services involved and find another home.

Posted 6 months ago #
nealglover - Member

All these people acting as Judge and Jury without knowing anything at all about what has actually happened

What a surprise on an Internet forum.

Maybe your uncle told the Carer that he might be able to help her son out with a job through a friend or something like that ?
Maybe her sons house is for sale and he said he wanted the address to pass on to a prospective buyer ?

There are a million ways he could have got the address off her without her knowing why.

Maybe she's a scam artist. But maybe not. How the **** would any of us know ???

Posted 6 months ago #
iDave - Member

Admit it, it's you nealglover - isn't it?

Posted 6 months ago #
midlifecrashes - Member

What they said+lots

Worse than sackable offence, arrestable and very serious offence. If you decide to talk to them again before shopping them, tape it. Hope the rest of your uncle's carers are OK, and it's a decent place generally.

Posted 6 months ago #
project - Member

nealglover, from real life experience, always report stuff, failure to report results in negligence ,poor working standards and even poorer staff motivation.

We are dealing with vulnerable adults here, some who have no relatives, or relatives who dont care.

Posted 6 months ago #
Rusty Spanner - Member

Sorry,haven't read all the above posts.

DO NOT DO IT.

I work in care homes.
The separation between the personal and professional should be absolute.

I don't accept any gifts - it's not necessary any compromises the entire relationship between the carer, the client, the home and the relatives.

Again, DO NOT DO IT. I cannot emphasise this enough.

If the manager of the care home doesn't appear to be bothered, report them as well.

It is abuse and should be dealt with as such.

Please, please report this.
It gives those of us who do the job for the right reasons a bad name.

Posted 6 months ago #
ratadog - Member

Please, please report this.
It gives those of us who do the job for the right reasons a bad name.

Well put

Posted 6 months ago #
esselgruntfuttock - Member

Neal, don't think you read the OP properly.
The two ideas you came up with are as unlikely as me winning the DH ay Champerey. (extremely unlikely)

Posted 6 months ago #
nealglover - Member

project - Member
nealglover, from real life experience, always report stuff, failure to report results in negligence ,poor working standards and even poorer staff motivation.
We are dealing with vulnerable adults here, some who have no relatives, or relatives who dont care.

I'm not saying otherwise. Just think talking to the Carer first might be a better idea.
Then report it ?

All the "know everythings" on here would have her sacked and locked up
Without actually knowing anything other than that the old boy has got her sons address somehow.

iDave - Member
Admit it, it's you nealglover - isn't it?

(I could do with £2k ! But ...... No)

Posted 6 months ago #
nealglover - Member

esselgruntfuttock - Member
Neal, don't think you read the OP properly.
The two ideas you came up with are as unlikely as me winning the DH ay Champerey. (extremely unlikely)

Which bit did I miss ?

I didn't see anything that said he was incapable speaking to people and asking questions.

And he did say he was a very charitable fella.
Maybe he's a bit sly too ?

All I am saying, is that there is a possibility that there is a normal explanation, and the Carer is in fact not aware of what the old boy was planning to do.
It's a possibility, that's all I'm saying.

Posted 6 months ago #
project - Member

Neal, do get a real-life, talking to the carer will give her time to concoct a story, she has no place in a care home.

2000 quid is a lot of cash to give away for anyone.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Neal - speaking to the care worker is not right thing to do at all. Nothing can possibly be settled from that at all. All it would do is give the carer the opportunity to cover tracks

Writing down the sons address cannot have an innocent explanation. There is a very strong set of rules on this for a good reason.

The care worker might just have been stupid but I doubt it. everyone knows this sort of contact is not permissible. The possible explanations you give are not excusable at all in any way.

There are a few of us on here with experience of the sector and we all realise how serious this is.

Posted 6 months ago #
esselgruntfuttock - Member

I agree to a certain extent Neal, there could be an innocent explanation, but I think if it is, it has to be 'nipped in the bud' as it were or it could escalate. (thats if it is innocent which I'm doubting more & more)
He's an ex bank manager, (he's bound to be a bit sly!), but because he's a generous christian, maybe also a bit gullible at his age (86)
She probably doesn't realise that I write his cheques, so I'm gonna see what explanation she comes up with before she ends up in the dole queue!

Posted 6 months ago #
poly - Member

You say your uncle is "OK mentally" and knows it is "against the rules" that doesn't stack up quite so well with being taken advantage of. Personally if I was going to scam money out of old folks I wouldn't pick the ones with powers of attorney in place!

I think you need to talk to the oldboy first of all and ascertain the facts. Then if she had given him the address to solicit funds from him then I don't see any point in giving her the opportunity to explain to you why, or weedle her way out of it - go to the top, they will conduct whatever investigation is required to give her a fair chance at defence. The harder part will be if your uncle says he's not being conned, and really wants to help him out and he got the address without her knowledge of how/why.

You could argue that the RNLI etc are also taking advantage of an old man's vulnerability/beneavolance - I'll bet the advertise in materials targetted at the older person to try and maximise legacy income. On the other hand not giving away his cash in line with his wishes might well be seen to be keeping it to line your own pocket in the future...

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Provocative Poly

It doesn't even matter if the money has not been solicited - if the carers son accepted it it would be wrong

Posted 6 months ago #
khani - Member

Don't confront her, report it and let them find out the truth, if she's innocent then she'll be cleared and no harm done
Allthough I can't think of any situation that could explain away that sort behaviour by a care worker towards a resident, there's very strict rules and regulations to prevent it, just report it,..

Posted 6 months ago #
esselgruntfuttock - Member

On the other hand not giving away his cash in line with his wishes might well be seen to be keeping it to line your own pocket in the future...
Thanks you crank, funny how you thought of that when I didn't need to (i already know how I stand in Uncles will, he's told me as I'm also executor to his estate)
So how would a careworker know a resident had someone that was a nominated person with lasting power of attorney? (without being proper nosey)
Go on, speculate a bit more while not knowing anything apart from what youv'e read.

Posted 6 months ago #
nealglover - Member

esselgruntfuttock - Member
I agree to a certain extent Neal, there could be an innocent explanation, but I think if it is, it has to be 'nipped in the bud' as it were or it could escalate. (thats if it is innocent which I'm doubting more & more)
He's an ex bank manager, (he's bound to be a bit sly!), but because he's a generous christian, maybe also a bit gullible at his age (86)
She probably doesn't realise that I write his cheques, so I'm gonna see what explanation she comes up with before she ends up in the dole queue!

Glad to hear that.

Maybe also talk to your uncle before that ? He may clue you in to what he's been up to

Or he may tell You that she gave him some big sob story and asked for money ??

Either way, if he's switched on enough to know it's "against the rules", he will more than likely be able to clear up any confusion and answer your questions.

Posted 6 months ago #
shortbread_fanylion - Member

You can grant power of attorney at any time - My parents had it for me when I was abroad and I have it for them as a precaution should they become incapacitated. Its much easier to do it before people lose capacity then after.

True, I have only been aware of situations whereby it has been granted once the person has lost capacity as it's automatically enacted, but they'd agreed that this would happen if/when they lost capacity. Didn't realise you could effectively sign it straight over to someone to look after your financial affairs even when you still had capacity. Getting a bit mixed up with welfare power of attorney which is only enacted once capacity is lost, assuming it's been signed off when the grantor has capacity.

Posted 6 months ago #
poly - Member

esselgrunt - I don't know how much the careworker knows about her "clients", but I'd be surprised if she didn't have a pretty good idea who was looking after their own affairs, who was able to write cheques (why would she write down an address if he is able to write himself) etc. I don't know what sort of access individual staff have to records, or what her role involves but I assume someone at the home is familiar with the situation. But quite simply being "proper nosey" is not that difficult in a care home - lots of people sitting round who would be delighted if you struck up a conversation with them. Certainly if you were going to risk getting fired by soliciting money from someone it would make sense to understand the risks.

I wasn't actually suggesting that you were in it to make more for yourself. I was pointing out how it could appear - if e.g. there are other nephews and nieces who hear that you've been refusing to give his money away where he wishes. But I obviously hit a raw nerve!

TJ - I did wonder whether he would accept it? Whilst I'm not "on hard times" I know that if a cheque appeared out the blue from some guy I never met, probably with little of no explanation (after all "Uncle Esselgrunt" isn't going to be writing any letters to go in with it) then I'd not be cashing it (in fact I'd be suspicious it was some sort of new elaborate phishing scam and it would turn out Uncle Esselgrunt was a Nigerian Prince!).

Posted 6 months ago #

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