We’re in the market for a new car, specifically an estate. Most of the journey’s will be the daily commute (unfortunately bike is not an option) of 5 miles each way. There’ll be the odd 300 mile trip on a monthly basis.

Diesel estates are rife, however due to the main use being te short town journey’s I’m tempted by a VAG TSI or Ford Ecoboost engine. Yes the economy isn’t as good as diesel, but you seem to get a lot more car for your money, albeit not many for sale. I expect they’re quite good to drive (thinking of the 1.4 TSI or 1.6 Ecoboost).

Budget means I’ll be looking at a 13 reg or thereabouts, from what I’ve read proper servicing is important for the Ford’s (due to specific oil requirements) and the odd blown turbo, I’ve also heard a rumour about burnt out piston rings(?) on the VAG’s.

Like any car they’re not going to be faultless, but does anyone have any real world experience and would you get one over a diesel?

Also any thoughts on the VW DSG over a manual? Apparently the Ford Powershift is rubbish.

I had a 1.6 ecoboost focus estate 2013 and it was a really good car with a strong engine. MPG was mid 40’s if I was careful and higher on long trips. Nice bit of boost for overtaking.

Now have a Focus ST estate with the 2.0 litre ecoboost.

Very good internal space arrangement. Flat boot opening and square sides so getting a bike in is easy.

Don’t need to have the cam belt changed until 100,000 miles unlike VAG cars which a 13/14 plate will probably need doing.

I’ve got a 2012 2.0 TSI Golf (GTI) with DSG, I love it. Get approaching 40mpg out of it, occasional runs get up to 41-42 (actual, not indicated) if you’re just following traffic. Would assume that the 1.4 would be more economical. I love the DSG, use it in automatic 99% of the time, use the paddles for overtaking or ‘spirited’ driving (so basically never as I live in the South East!).

Previously had 2 Golf GT TDIs, I’d not go back to a diesel now in the days of DPFs, if you’re doing lots of 5 mile journeys it probably isn’t ideal, even with a semi-frequent 300 mile journey.

Lots of short journeys does suggest petrol. Have a look at Leon FRs very well reviewed in the motoring press. DSG in VAG is a very good system to. I personally still prefer manuals but if you do a lot of stop start driving then the auto makes sense

I bought my daughter a Fiesta recently and we decided to go petrol rather than diesel. We ended up with one of the little 1litre turbo’s (the 125bhp one) and it’s highly impressive – it really does drive like a much bigger engine, even reminds me a bit of the 205 GTi I had back in the day. If that’s replicated in the bigger Ford engines then they’ll definitely be worth a look.

Fuel consumption is pretty good in the Fiesta although comprised a bit by being quite fun to drive, meaning heavier use of the right foot.

I test drove a 1.0l Focus Ecoboost and was quite very impressed at how much fun it was to drive. Anecdotally I hear that the fuel consumption is woefully lower than quoted.

have a 999cc 3 cylinder turbo petrol engined wee Audi coming next week for the Boss. Will be intrigued to see how it goes in real life. Was very impressed with it on test drive, very nippy and still sounded fine at 70 on motorway…

I’d never buy a diesel car again given our usage which is pretty similar to your own. The last diesel car we had was when I was doing a 120 mile a day commute and since then we’ve had a succession of petrol cars of which nothing (touch wood!) has ever really gone wrong with them. That said, the only thing that ever went wrong with the diesel was an alternator which could happen on any car and and DMF was on its way out when we sold it.

Given your choices I’d get something with the DSG gearbox. They’re great – I literally cannot see why you’d buy a manual car with stuff like DSG being so damn good. Who wants to keep changing gears all the time?! But with DSG theres the option for semi-manual shifts if you want it but realistically on mine I use it every now and then down shifting down whilst rolling up to a roundabout etc when I know I might just want to put my foot down to pull out etc.

I defend diesels on here but I’d go turbo petrol no problem. Don’t discount the lower powered ones, as the turbo gives you lots of useful torque despite low power. My dad’s 85bhp Golf drives really well.

And as above, DSGs are great. Ford powershift is the same idea, I’ve heard that early ones are grabby though. Not sure how true that is. Another benefit of DSGs is that it’s way smoother for your passengers.

Question about DSG’s, how much does the clutch cost?

Or is it effectively a lifetime part as the engine presumably can shift much smoother than a driver ever would?

Petrols feel very similar these days to diesels as they put a turbo on them.

Don’t be fooled by any of the mpg figures though for whatever make real work will be much lower unless your drive like a very very old granny

Anecdotally I hear that the fuel consumption is woefully lower than quoted.

It might be possible to get close if you drove gently, but the cars are too much fun so you won’t. Ours is still pretty decent given how hard it tends to get driven. Averages similar mpg to my wife’s diesel SLK in fact.

OPs usage was made for one of the new smaller turbo petrols. They’re not bad on the motorway either – yeah they seem small but they’re absolutely fine on the motorway.

Wife’s got a 1.2 TSI Ibiza and I’ve got a 2.0CR TDI Exeo estate.

When we’re out as a family we take the Ibiza around town and it’s brilliant, never feels strained or under engined even with 4 of us and even in stop-start if you look ahead and ‘drive well’ it’ll beat 40mpg with ease.

My Exeo is crap in comparison around town, the loooong first gear makes it a ball ache in stop-start and it’s 30mpg at best until it’s warm and not much better until you’re on a run.

Cruising at 70-80 it’ll do 50Mpg and it’s all very calm and quite on the motorway (28k family estate in more refined than 12k small hatch shocker) but the Ibiza will match the mpg and it’s just a bit louder, it doesn’t feel like a tiny car on the motorway – speed sensitive steering really helps.

We never see the official mpgs for either, but then we live in Cardiff everything it up or down hill – I spend a lot of time going back and forth Swansea it’s up and down hill continually, I thought it was broke when I first had it, drive along that seemingly empty flat bit between Bath and Reading and it’s much better.

I’ve also heard a rumour about burnt out piston rings(?) on the VAG’s.

I started a thread somewhat recently about 2005-2008 era A4s, it was pointed out that the 2.0 TFSI suffered a piston ring problem for a few years, but got fixed around 2009 (?). Seems to be a reasonably well known thing. VAG were doing expensive fixes (part or full rebuild) and footing the bill at the time. Google turns up quite a bit on the topic.

The boy racer in me likes the idea of the 1.6 ecoboost, but head says that the 125bhp 1.0 litre should be fine.

I’m not expecting to get quoted MPG but the MPG / Tax on our current 1.6 FSI is so bad that even the higher powered engine will probably be at least as good, maybe even better.

don’t know how the Ford’s go but I drove 1.0TFSI and 1.4TFSI Audi Q2’s back to back and preferred the smaller engine. The 1.4 was mental fast feeling mind you…

Thanks mrmonkfinger – if that issue is limited to the 2.0 TFSI only then I doubt that will affect me but thanks for the heads up.

I have a 2.0 tdci focus
My wife has the 1 litre fiesta ecoboost

Our fuelling economies are almost identical at 42mpg though admittedly mine is run on the motorway and hers tends to be the country roads

While the performance of the fiesta is okay you do need to push it for performance. On the other hand the focus just pulls especially in the useful 35 to 70 mph range

flashinthepan – Is that the 3 or 4 cylinder engine?

Driving a 1.0l ecoboost Fiesta, like a vicar wearing slippers, I managed to coax 50mpg out of it. It’s supposed to do over 60mpg.

How short do people consider short drives to be? My commute is 13 miles of nearly continuous traffic and I’m planning on getting something that’s more suitable for that than my current car.

The only requirements are that the vehicle has to be big enough for two dogs and comfortable enough for long journeys (up to 1500km).

ransos – Member

Driving a 1.0l ecoboost Fiesta, like a vicar wearing slippers, I managed to coax 50mpg out of it. It’s supposed to do over 60mpg.

Driving a 1.0 ecoboost Focus normally I can get 49mpg on a long trip. Mine is the 125bhp 6 speed. My advice to the op would be to test drive both models. I did this and the higher spec, more powerful TDCI felt like dog shit after driving the petrol. I can’t see me ever buying another diesel family car.

How short do people consider short drives to be? My commute is 13 miles of nearly continuous traffic and I’m planning on getting something that’s more suitable for that than my current car.

The only requirements are that the vehicle has to be big enough for two dogs and comfortable enough for long journeys (up to 1500km).

Short is typically 2-3 miles 5-10 mins the sort of (I could walk this really) drives.

When it comes to diesel v petrol it’s more complex – lots of people drive diesels on short trips (company car taxation plays a part) which doesn’t suit them, mechanically it clogs them up with soot and whilst they’re cold they’re not very efficient and certainly not very environmentally friendly 13 miles of traffic is enough to warm up a diesel, but it’s still not ideal for them – really they work best chugging away at a constant rate – I.E. motorways.

Your size requirement and need to make long journeys rules out EVs, but Petrol might be better – you shouldn’t fall into the same trap as me – I drive 5 miles to work via school and 5 miles back again – sometimes it’s weeks between long trips, sometimes it’s 4 days a week, but mostly it’s just the short commute – but I drive to France most summers, it’s the only trip I really worry about, so when I chose my car I thought about it too much I think – I picked a car that was perfect for my once a year drive to the Alps – and about 99% for the rest of the year – really I should have got a smaller petrol and accepted a £20 cost penalty to get the kids to centrparcs or whatever.

@flashinthepan you are mashing the pedal to get 42mpg on a motorway run from a 2.0 tdi – or it has a fault!

Question about DSG’s, how much does the clutch cost?

It’s £900 on mine, which is a wet clutch, but they are as you say a ‘lifetime’ part. That’s the whole clutch unit though. It is possible to get hold of just the friction material which is a set of loose rings, that’s only £300 including £80 worth of oil for it.

The downer is that the oil needs replacing after something like 40k miles (not sure these days) which VW charge a lot for but indies much less.

Chopped our 2.0tdi yeti in for a 2,0tsi kodiaq last month. I’ not go back to a diesel now. Its so much quieter, smoother and just generally better. Even with a gargantuan roof box, three bikes on a rack, my family’s stupendous 150kg of “complete crap” onboard and plenty of 140kph+ autobahn cruising it still managed 32mpg over our 2500 mile summmer road trip.

It warms up instantly so winter plodding around will be much more comfortable and doesn’t sound like a tractor while idling.

Petrol DSGs seem to be shipping with the dry clutch box now. But the auto handbrake feature should prevent wear from creep.

@ pieface – the 3 cylinder Ecoboost

@ molgrips – you’re quite right. I can easily get 50mpg from the 2.0 tdci on the motorway if I use a light foot. I generally average 42mpg with some B roads and less economical driving thrown in

Petrols feel very similar these days to diesels as they put a turbo on them.

Not in my experience…
Not worse, jsut different.
We’ve a 2lTDI octavia, and a petrol 1.4 TSI yeti.

I need to ‘remember’ to drive the yeti differently – you can be quite lazy in the derv motor, but have to be ‘on the ball’ in the yeti. No option for DSG, but I like changing gears – I feel like a rally driver….

Once you spin the 1.4 up it really does pull – I just have to ignore the rev dial (I’f i’m in ‘diesel mode’ then I start to change at 2.5krpm…really you need to leave it climbing to get the acceleration power!)

DrP

Agreed DrP

My focus – you don’t need to work the box, just give it some beans

The fiesta on the other hand needs revving if you want it to go

Hence, presumably, the similarity in economy.

Chemistry init? You only get so much energy from each ml of fuel

DrP – Member

Petrols feel very similar these days to diesels as they put a turbo on them.

Not in my experience…
Not worse, jsut different.
We’ve a 2lTDI octavia, and a petrol 1.4 TSI yeti.

I need to ‘remember’ to drive the yeti differently – you can be quite lazy in the derv motor, but have to be ‘on the ball’ in the yeti. No option for DSG, but I like changing gears – I feel like a rally driver….

Once you spin the 1.4 up it really does pull – I just have to ignore the rev dial (I’f i’m in ‘diesel mode’ then I start to change at 2.5krpm…really you need to leave it climbing to get the acceleration power!)

DrP

FWIW your description of the 1.4 TSI sounds completely different from the ford 1.0 ecoboost and other small displacement turbo petrols I’ve driven. It sounds like you’re describing the power delivery of a conventional non vgt turbo.

That’s why the 1.4TSI twin charger in the Fabia VRS was so amazing – loads of pull from hardly any revs. Loved that car. Would have another.

Rachel

Petrol DSGs seem to be shipping with the dry clutch box now. But the auto handbrake feature should prevent wear from creep.

They always did. I don’t think creep is a problem, is it? If you sit on the footbrake it de-clutches and only brings it in when you lift off the brake exactly as you would if you were driving. But it uses far less throttle than you could so it’s probably better for wear.

Just for the OP

I can easily get 3 bikes (front wheels off) in the back of my focus estate with the seat split leaving room for two passengers and all our guff

Thanks for that, unsure whether the Focus Estate will give me enough extra room over what I’ve already got (Leon Hatchback), but for everyday use and the driveability over a Mondeo it probably will, the rest can always go in the roofbox when we go away.

Thought the 1.4/1.2tfsi got the 7sp dry clutch DSG, while the 2.0 t(f)si engines originally got the diesel’s 6sp wet clutch box? Could be wrong. Anyway ours has the dry box and they explicitally exlude the clutch material from the warranty even though you have pretty much no control over how it is (ab)used. We went over stelvio 10 days ago and I could tell it was deliberatly slipping the clutches rather than shifting down to 1st on some corners. I also noted that in some traffic situations it’ll creep like a torque converter-equipped traditional automatic, particulalry in stop/start traffic – there seems to be a difference between pulling to a STOP and it engaging the auto handbrake and pulling to a gentle stop (still a complete halt) where it doesn’t.

We’re in the market for a new car, specifically an estate. Most of the journey’s will be the daily commute (unfortunately bike is not an option) of 5 miles each way.

In case it’s not already been said, that probably won’t be too good for a diesel with a DPF.

I’d stay away from the Fords. Ford have having a lot of problems in the states with the ecoBoost engines, which I’m sure will come out here fairly soon, but VAG? who trusts them anymore?

andy8442 – Member

I’d stay away from the Fords. Ford have having a lot of problems in the states with the ecoBoost engines

Go and take a look at Ford’s American model range. IIRC they only offer the 1.0 ecoboost engine in one spec of Focus. They use the “ecoboost” nomenclature on all of their turbo charged petrol engines though. Not the same thing.

13 miles of traffic is enough to warm up a diesel

Had a 2006 Focus 2.0 TDCi for 6 years. Fully warmed up by 4 miles, maybe 5 in winter, on my daily commute, so a repeatable thing. Just saying.

We went over stelvio 10 days ago and I could tell it was deliberatly slipping the clutches rather than shifting down to 1st on some corners.

Yes, but VW aren’t stupid – it slips the clutch (on mine at least) when the load is low.

but VAG? who trusts them anymore?

Trust them for what?

After they’ve been so badly burned, I’d expect them to be whiter than white.

Had a 2006 Focus 2.0 TDCi for 6 years. Fully warmed up by 4 miles, maybe 5 in winter,

Depends on the load. If I turn one way out of my street I get to go down hill to a 50mph dual carriageway that’s slightly downhill then to a slow 30mph bit with queueing traffic. It won’t be warmed up in 6 miles. If I turn the other way I am uphill onto a motorway where I boot it up to 70mph then pull up another hill, it’s nearly warmed up inside three.