^good point (ahwhiles)

I had a fun ride in the Peak District yesterday, even tolerating – nay, enjoying – the gloop. However when I looked at my route at the end, I did a LOT of tarmac miles just to do some relatively small (but fun) sections of off-road.

exactly, the only* corner in the peak is the one at the top of stanage, can anyone show me a interesting off-road way of linking that into a ride?

(*a slight exageration, but only a slight one mind)

I love trail centres and I love natural riding, but I love them for different things. I tend to ride mostly natural stuff because it’s a lot closer, but if I had a trail centre close by then I’d probably split my riding between the two types of trail fairly equally. If people only want to ride trail centres then that’s fine by me – I think they’re missing out on some of the best riding in this country but that’s their choice. I don’t see why there has to be any sort of devision or slating of trail centre riders. They certainly provide a great place for introducing people to mountain biking in a relatively safe environment, and are great for honing certain skills that can then be taken out onto natural trails.

There will always tend to be a few who are a bit elitist in any sport I suppose.

I think you managed to entice out one light hearted response from MTG, barely even qualifies as a ‘few’ :p

FWIW I’d still considder ‘off piste’ as ‘trail center’.

You know you prefer natural trails when someone mention’s “there’s supposed to be a good trail off the side off XYZ” where XYZ is a hill that requires a 40 mile XC loop to reach it and you’re already heading back into the shop for an extra mars bar before they’ve finished explaining it.

That and more sense of achievement of getting a KOM on Strava as the only person to ever ride that track (on Strava) rather than being the 999th.

xactly, the only* corner in the peak is the one at the top of stanage, can anyone show me a interesting off-road way of linking that into a ride?

Sheffield – Ranmoor footpath – Stanage – bamford – (insert rest of the ride here) – climb back upto Blaka moor, decend to Dore – round the rugby club – Parks – sheffield.

Red route around ladybower? Please no!

FWIW I’d still considder ‘off piste’ as ‘trail center’.

Really? I’d have thought anything ‘unmarked’ is a natural trail? Cannock is a large forest and stuffed full of off piste. Think it’s stretching it a bit therefore to claim the whole forest is a trail center?

Perhaps I imagined it all then (the looking down on trail centres) 😀

[quoteWell you get quoted below me so there seems no point repeating it
both you and the OP seem intent thast everyone hates you for snobbery – I assume this is an insult and yet so far no one seems to have bothered to insult trail centre users [ except for humour]
You insulted some folk and then you got “insulted” back and this proves your point theat they are dissing you [ as i assume you will not think it was humour]

Awesome use of logic by The dude[/quote]

Gosh you’re very sensitive if you take my words as an insult…Want a hug?

I don’t care where you ride or what you do.

But I do know some who’ll judge you for your choice.

That points already been proved.

Onzadog – Member

Red route around ladybower? Please no!

there already is one, it’s just ‘natural’ – and it’s a boggy mess for most of the year.

and it’s getting worse.

Red route around ladybower? Please no!

I reckon some proper trail maintenance might actually help. There’s quite a few trails around Ladybower that get churned up in poor weather (equally there are some that are pretty good in most conditions). It’s undoubtedly an MTB honeypot, so some man-made, well-drained trails might just protect the other trails a little. It’s the closet to a trail centre – without actually being a trail centre – that I’ve ever ridden at.

Same as others I like Trail Centres when the weather is rubbish, or when you just need a change in scene. You know the trail is going to be rideable, don’t have to worry about navigating, or missing out the good parts. And as most of the time I go in Winter, and its a long journey, it’s nice to have showers and a cafe.

As an addition, my gf likes going as she’s learning the trade ( so to speak) and can ride around on what she knows are do-able obstacles that she can practice her skills on and then transfer that to the ( to her) slightly more unpredictable natural world. Plus she go at her own pace and not worry about getting lost, or worry about “slowing me down” .

Really? I’d have thought anything ‘unmarked’ is a natural trail? Cannock is a large forest and stuffed full of off piste. Think it’s stretching it a bit therefore to claim the whole forest is a trail center?

Well, yea. Swinley was always a pseudo trail center, just all ‘off piste’.

Like I said, not bad, just not somethign I’d often drive out of my way to go an do. An aquaintance actualy suggested a drive to the Lake district to ride the trail centers, that’s the mentality I can’t get into.

I’ve no objection to trail maintenance. Indeed, myself and regular riding mates would volunteer. However, signing, labeling and advertising it as a “trail centre” would have far wider reaching consequences and I think be the thin edge of the wedge for the natural riding there.

I ride them as they are convenient and my local trails are as smooth as a baby’s bum so some rock type stuff makes a change. I also travel to do natural stuff too so there.

Nickc, oddly enough, my wife feels exactly the opposite. She feels harassed at trail centres but free to find her own way down on natural stuff. She’s sooner walk down the beast than ride around cannock.

(she has however, now ridden all of the beast in sections, just needs to link it up now)

Slightly devils advocate, but the Peak District is just a badly run trail centre ( there are 4 routes, more or less* ) with a cafe, a shop and hordes of bikes. The trails just aren’t that well looked after. It’s about as santitised you can get without actually being a built centre.

* exaggerating for effect.

Sorry nickc, but no. Overly popular national park maybe but badly run trail centre? Not by a long stretch.

Maybe this whole thread needs restarting with an agreed deffinition of “trail centre”

Trail centres are fun. Mums and dads and families and teenagers…swoops corners, gnarly bits. Yeah stuff like that.

It has it’s place, but if that’s all you ride…all you want to ride? Nah. And if we all think that on this forum, then not only is the message inherant in the forums’s name not getting across, we’ve forgotten there was any message in the first pace.

Can’t see the point of a big discussion on it. Ride both natural and trail centres, I’m just happy we have so much choice.

I agree with Nick.

It’s exacly like a trail center at Fairholms. Lot’s of expensive and suspiciously clean bikes within 500m.

The rest of the area is pretty good though 🙂

Peaks seems to suffer more than most from Honeypots. I went a couple of weeks back, had to que for a snack at Fairholms, yet only saw about 10 bikes on the Beast/Hagg Farm/Screaming mile. Cannock on the other hand has far easier* parking, but sometimes the trail feels like elbowing your way round a shopping center the Saturday before Christmas.

*well, untill you realise there’s more to parking than Hope/Castleton high street.

Onzadog, yes your right of course, the point I was making (badly) is that from an outsiders perspective, the Peaks “experience” is not hugely dissimilar to some of the more exposed trail centres.

IMHO those who like trail centres are more likely to be an adrenalin junkie and those who like natural are more likely to be outdoorsy/appreciate nature and generally like cycling
This is of course a sweeping generalisation

You’re right. It is a sweeping generalisation and in my case, mostly wrong. I’d class myself as an ‘adrenalin junkie’ in that I prefer the downs and tolerate the ups. The downs being better the more technical/faster/rockier/jumpier/bermier etc they are. But I’d also certainly class myself as an outdoorsy person who appreciates nature and I’d probably say I live and breath biking – its a HUGE part of who I am.

I was just saying that give the choice, I’d probably rather have a day at Glentress with my mates rather than trudging around the Peaks/Dales/Moors linking (admittadely good) bits of trail that are littered with walkers/horse riders etc with boring bits of road/trail. My riding time is precious with a young family and work etc so I want to get the most out of it.

Maybe part of it is because I don’t actually live that close to a trail centre. Gisburn/Stainburn/Lee Quarry are all 45 minutes’ish away from me so I’d generally used that hour or so in either direction of travel time as extra riding time from my door. I’d say 90% of my riding is in Calderdale so maybe its just the novelty value of weekends away to CyB/Glentress etc. Maybe if I lived near Glentress, I’d prefer to ride natural stuff more… who knows… its all biking.

It’s an interesting view of ladybower as we nor.ally park elsewhere and fairly early. We don’t normally stop at fairholmes (maybe early o’clock so the wife can have a pre ride wee). Then as said above, we only see a light smattering of other people (walkers or riders) on hagg, beast, screaming mile etc.

Trail Centres are great fun and I can see why people enjoy them but I think you’d be missing out if you were ONLY to ride them.

The real appeal for me in mountain biking is being out in the wilds, plotting a route on an OS map and generally being pretty self sufficient with spares, navigation etc. For that reason about 99% of my riding is local “natural” stuff, although I’d acknowledge that very little of that is not man-made in some form or other.

The closest analogy is probably on piste / off piste / cross country skiing I guess.

EDIT: Just saw this earlier post:

Someone on here a while ago described this as ‘two-wheeled rambling’. They meant it derogatively but, to be honest, it perfectly sums up what I like to do.

+1!

Personally, I just like going riding but will confess to a preference for natural stuff. Both are valid but I’d like for them to remain discrete. I think merging the two could be bad for mountain biking.

Reading the above insinuation above that “The Peaks Experience” is a Derwent/Hope Valley thing, is that really the case? Is that what most “outsiders” think about the Peak District?

I like both but probably ride trail centres more often.

There is not a huge amount of natural riding near me. So if I’m going to get in the car I might as well go somewhere where I know it won’t be a mudfest.

The most enjoyable rides I’ve done have all been natural but the most boring / frustrating rides have all been natural too.

Sooooo some people like trail-centres, some don’t, hell some even like to ride them drop-handled bikes they ride in the tour of France…

Isn’t it great being different…

I like both in equal measure. I don’t like the muddy fields that is my local riding though, I really need to move!

I went riding with a friend recently somewhere I’d not been before (not trail centre).
Later on, chatting to friend, he says “yeah, well I think I prefer natural riding like this than Trail centres”. Hmmmm. It’s not natural, your mucker has just spend a hour telling me how he’d made them all by hand.

Anyone with the opinion that the Peaks are like a trail centre obviously hasn’t experienced everything that the Peaks have to offer.

Is it a bit like the difference between spinning class riders and roadies?

Does anyone else here collect model aeroplanes?

No, trains… sorry.

FWIW – TCs and natural in the Summer.

TCs in the Winter.

snowboarders v skiers

I think it’s worth quoting Lito Tejada-Flores at this point, in his essay “the Games Climbers Play” he outlines at climbing (or in this case mountain biking) is in fact not one homogenous sport:

Climbing is not a homogeneous sport but rather a collection of differing (though) related activities, each with its own adepts, distinctive terrain, problems and satisfactions, and perhaps most important, its own rules. Therefore, I propose to consider climbing in general as a hierarchy of climbing- games, each defined by a set of rules and an appropriate field of play.

The confusion comes in biking because there is the assumption that are divisions are along the lines of road biking and mountain biking – downhill and XC etc. etc. but it’s more than that and Lito’s analysis of climbing goes into this. Even if you ride trail centres on a similar type of bike, there are people that ride them one way, playing one game, and others who ride them another, playing a different game. Success in each case depends on different factors. They are however factors which can be consistent with other players, the variables are not infinite, and in fact it is the fact that people confuse another player as playing the same game as them, that discussions like this start, and continue.

Living and riding in the Peak I would say that there is way too much focus on a couple of routes, there is way more to offer in this area than the usual loops discussed on here.

I’m in the rambler on a bike category, I love the solitude of riding solo, the self reliance and the squeaky bum moments when things go tits-up.

Only ever ridden the 7 Stanes and for the most part we really enjoyed them, one was marred by Mr Superfast, his family & dog who kept screaming and pushing past only to stop at every junction to check the post, whereas we just rode until we fancied a break.

However, I have a nagging feeling that as more trail centres open, more riders use them almost exclusively, the anti mtb fraternity in the RA (and there is a large and vocal one) may well follow the same argument with us as they have done with 4×4 & trail bikes – There are purpose built facilities designed just for them, so they have no need to ride and wreck our national parks, etc”.

Red route around Ladybower is a very bad idea – trail maintenance is a good idea – perhaps someone should suggest it to the PPA and see if they bite?

Trail centres are what keep me off of road bikes tbh!

Absolutely love them, it’s like going to the gym for mountain biking. I’ve done Barnstable to Bristol and the WC2C, so I’m just as happy doing natural too.

They have their place and offer some great riding – however, I don’t think people should get it in their mind that TCs offer the best riding around – because they don’t

I started biking in the early 90s, came back to it after 16 years off 2 years ago

Trail centres are a new thing for me – great fun, predictable, yet relatively challenging trails and a great place to learn. You also meet lots of people with a similar mindset to yourself

Swinley Forest – one of my local riding areas – is currently becoming a trail centre

A lot of local people are getting very excited about the 50km of unregulated trails being cut down to a purpose built 25km loop with professionally built, one way armoured trails

I’m not a fan of this, as its massively sanitised and we’re going to lose loads of great natural riding

On top of that, the people who seem massively excited about the development appear to be the people who always head over to Afan of CYB for a weekend adventure on a bike – people who i would class as non-seasoned mountain bikers – you know, the ones who have very expensive bikes, Audi Estates and not a great deal of skill (this isn’t a bad thing, just an observation – a biker is a biker and i like bikers…)

I believe that people need to get out there and discover mountain biking at its purest form – so if that means scratching around a welsh mountain with a wet & soggy OS map for 6 hours or trying to cobbled together some repair to get you back to civilisation – then that’s what people need to do to really be a seasoned biker

Each to their own I suppose – but i think Trail Centres are akin to drinking Cafferys instead of Real Ale – all a bit fake considering the choices this country can offer 🙂

rogerthecat – Member

Red route around Ladybower is a very bad idea – trail maintenance is a good idea – perhaps someone should suggest it to the PPA and see if they bite?

i din’t really propose it as a suggestion/request, i mentioned it for a thought experiment.

imagine that a route had been built, roughly following the current route, only it had more interesting climbs, and longer swoopy descents, and a weather-proof surface.

i suspect it would be more popular than the ‘original’.

i could be wrong, but i know we’ll never know.