The (e-)apocalypse is nigh!

So, I’ve seen Mark’s story this morning:

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/strava-we-have-a-problem/

In summary, on a fat e-bike he’s absolutely blown away various strava KOMs. Now, I’m sure Mark is a great mtber but I don’t believe he’s an XC whippet so this suggest that e-bikes are now at a point where even with fat tyres, they’re really quite fast and they’re only going to get faster and/or have better range…

So, how long for the split in the sport or will e-riders continue to mix it up with their mates on ‘proper’ (as it’ll no doubt be called) mtbs or will they just get banned?

Friends don’t let friends ebike 😉

🙂 the polarisation begins 🙂

no different to going out on a moped and getting a bunch of roadie KoM’s.

Using a motor of some sort makes you go faster.

I hope someone has let the Prime Minister know.

I’m in my forties. If I had a heart attack in the next 5 years or so (God forbid) I would still want to get out in the woods on my bike. I would be in the market for an ebike then.
I think for rehab after illness or injury it sounds like a good idea.

I do not want one at the moment though. All that money spent on weighty electronics could go on good kit.

He’ll put a tax on it if you do 😉

Of course it goes faster but until fairly recently e-bikes were so heavy or cumbersome that they really weren’t going to be any use off road. That seems to be changing right about now…

Out on Friday and was overtaken by an overweight gent on a full suz job no way was I able to hang on and Was soon dropped on the climb and I is awesome on a bike…….

My dad keeps telling me that one day I’ll get a ‘proper’ bike and that MTBs are gradually morphing into motorbikes. Looks like he was right on the second count.

As for Strava ethics: if it’s got a motor, it doesn’t count.

We will undoubtedly stratify cycling along the e-bikers and real-bikers lines.

Cuz that’s just human nature!

I think that motor puts out 250W, quite a decent amount of power and more than most folk could sustain for any length of time.

I can imagine it will become popular.

– Needlessly complicated and can be marketed to mugs as some sort of “revolution”. Check.
– Expensive and fancy looking, appealing to folk who want to show off. Check.
– Appeals to the fat and lazy. Check.

I have no issue with people riding them but they are already split in my mind. If you’ve got a motor your not cycling – by all means give a go if you are not hurting anyone but they won’t be allowed in races. If people use them to get strava KOMs then I imagine they’ll get flagged if they are ridiculous – it isn’t in the spirit of the site and you may as well be riding a motorbike or driving a car as you’ve introduced an engine, all be it a small one.

– Needlessly complicated

Is it? It seems to do exactly the job it’s intended for.

Expensive and fancy looking

Same as pretty much any new bike, isn’t that?

The third, well, maybe 😉

Yes, it is.

No not really.

OK, here’s my scenario. One that I can’t really see myself taking up for now but who knows longer term…

Classic STWer, kids, work, not enough time or inclination to ride/train as much as he used to but would still like to ride with his mates (who don’t have kids… 🙂 ) who are now way faster than him and would get fed up always waiting for him on the climbs and once he’s blown up 30 miles in.An ebike would allow him to do that. So it’s a social thing.

Didn’t see this thread until now so I’ll just restate my point that.

Whilst I’m sure they’re a giggle to ride the red sock brigade are going to go three shades of mental when these start appearing regularly.

I can genuinely see these as opening up old access debates all over the place and giving the NIMBY’s a huge stick to beat us with.

E-bikes are a tricky quandry for Strava but that’s a sideshow compared to the affect they could have on access.

“Allow mountain-bikes and next thing you’ll get motorbikes” is a common line of reasoning I’ve heard from the anti-MTB crowd, the appearance of E-bikes will mean that they’ll finally have something to back this up and you can well believe they’ll milk it for all it’s worth.

We have one strava KOM on a local hill on a housing estate that equates to over the 30mph speed limit – up a 1 in 5ish hill… I suspect folk have been using motorbikes or car dashboards for a while… 😉

(Have a guess why I don’t use or bother with such things!)

As they used to say at school “he’s only cheating himself”!

Classic STWer, kids, work, not enough time or inclination to ride/train as much as he used to but would still like to ride with his mates (who don’t have kids… ) who are now way faster than him and would get fed up always waiting for him on the climbs and once he’s blown up 30 miles in.An ebike would allow him to do that keep up with a bunch of dicks who may just as well ride by themselves if they’re taking that attitude.

FTFY 😉
for those struggling with illness – no problem. would seriously consider one myself under those circumstances.
WGAS what effect it has on strava?

Wake up and smell the coffee – They aren’t mountain bikes….if you want to ride a trials or MX bike fine, but go and buy a motorbike – an e-bike isn’t a bicycle.

I appreciate that some manufacturers will be pushing the press hard, with a glowing vision of bigger sales and a new industry segment, with more and more people taking up MTBing as an e-bike will be seen possibly as being more accessible for unfit fatties, but I find it really disappointing that the MTB media (inc ST) are promoting them, rather than questioning the wisdom of their usage in UK

Why – IMHO they are going to cause significant problems for MTB riders in UK coming years, as walkers and other land users/owners won’t tolerate e-bikes in the same way as they do current MTB bikers (barely in some cases).

They have a place, beside Segway hire, at places like centre parks….

I’m sure Mark is a great mtber but I don’t believe he’s an XC whippet

Your belief system is valid 🙂

I got to work 20 minutes quicker and a lot less sweaty, plus had loads of fun an the way. All the KOMs I got were on climbs. There’s no advantage on the DH at all, apart from the extra momentum due to the mahoosive weight – that things steers like a an oil tanker and I’m pretty sure it’s going to be expensive in brake pads.

Tonight I’m going home on the road with a few miles of light offroad section. Fastest time on my CX bike is 48mins. Lets see if this enormobike can beat that.

“Allow mountain-bikes and next thing you’ll get motorbikes” is a common line of reasoning I’ve heard from the anti-MTB crowd, the appearance of E-bikes will mean that they’ll finally have something to back this up and you can well believe they’ll milk it for all it’s worth.

+1

more and more interested, now 55 so age not on my side, I used to do (motorbike) green laning but this is now nearly policied out of existence (and is actually a lot more physically demanding than you think), so say a beta alp/serow etc[small really good trail bikes], £2-3k for a decent one and few places to ride with annual costs (ins, tax, depreciation etc) or a few K for for a decenct ebike(and presumably they’ll get better/cheaper, for my wants – getting out and enjoying new places and the general countryside exploration and bimbling – looks good to me

The story mentions a video, but I see no link to a video. Anyone got a URL for the vid ?

I got a demo from a bike shop , super cool . The owner was telling me his wife, who had been unwell, was biking with him now on an e bike and loving it.
I used to have a 90 min ride each way to work , which I did very rarely . I used to dream about an engine as I cycles the boring ish bridle way . If I still has that commute , I will prob buy one of these tomorrow..

Go on then ride them round Stanmer at full speed or better still take that fat bike with Clarkson on board down a narrow steep-sided Alpine pass. Age of Stupid.

The story mentions a video, but I see no link to a video. Anyone got a URL for the vid ?

…but if you cannot see it on the news page, maybe Vimeo is blocked, as it’s quite hard to miss.

Strongly agree with hatter and skydragon.

Come on ST mag, you need to take a stand against these things not promote them or use them as clickbait.

The mag used to run features on access issues, so I’d have thought you’d be sensitive to the risk they pose.

but I find it really disappointing that the MTB media (inc ST) are promoting them, rather than questioning the wisdom of their usage in UK

Well, we’ve neither said we like them or we don’t so I’m not sure we’ve been promoting them. We’ve accepted they exist, which I see as our duty as ‘media’. Just out of interest Skydragon, have you ridden one?

I tried to point out in my video, by being out of breath in one clip, that you have to pedal these things and the most surprising part of riding eBikes for me so far is how much like riding a bike they really are. They are still a long long way from being equated to engine powered vehicles. You have to pedal to make them go… like a bike… If you stop pedalling the bike stops… like a bike. If you pedal hard you get out of breath… like a bike.

Arguments as to access issues aside (I think that argument is a much more important one to be having. And we will) an eBike is a bike. It’s not a motorbike. If you are a cyclist and you ride one you will still feel like a cyclist. If you are motorcyclist and you ride one… you will feel like a cyclist, and probably be very disappointed.

The access code is already quite clear. It grants a right of responsible access to pretty much anywhere that you’d want to ride your bike, but specifically excludes:

“any form of motorised recreation or passage (except by people with a disability using a vehicle or vessel adapted for their use)”

Seems quite clear to me.

Whilst I’m not a fan, I bet they’re a riot powering up climbs.

Except motorised does not include ‘pedal assist’, which is what an ebike is. So, not so clear really.

I should say, I’ve never ridden an e-bike, nor a fat-bike – but I’m not against them – but in regards to Strava and competition as a whole it does seem to be a ruthlessly effective package.

Doesn’t sound like great fun to me though…

WGAS what effect it has on strava?

Me and probably plenty of other people.

It’ll probably end up being self policing. People will flag daft times or the whole thing will fall apart when the premise of KOM and leaderboards becomes meaninless.

Strava is a good site that can add some fun and interest. Claiming KOMs on a e-bike is a bit like a kid being rubbish at football so knicking the ball so no one can play.

chakaping – Member
Strongly agree with hatter and skydragon.

Come on ST mag, you need to take a stand against these things not promote them or use them as clickbait.

The mag used to run features on access issues, so I’d have thought you’d be sensitive to the risk they pose.

Yep, fully agree as well.

Though they do have there place, great for the elderly and not so well. In fact the only ones I’ve seen off road were on the Long Mynd, being ridden by an elderly couple who told us that it was the only way they could manage to get out doing what they loved doing.

Go on then ride them round Stanmer at full speed

I’ve now got my eye on a Big Dog podium in the fat bike class.

Except motorised does not include ‘pedal assist’, which is what an ebike is. So, not so clear really.

Certain things are classed as a bike (and therefore have the same access rights), other things are not (and therefore don’t). The distinction seems to be laid out in great detail in the relevant regulations.

See, e.g:

http://soan.org.uk/2013/04/electric-bikes-and-access-rights/%5B/url%5D

They look a laugh but I doubt I’d ever buy one though.
Might be ok for commuting on though.

Mark does make some good points about the difference between pedal assist and straight motor driven. I’ve ridden a couple (commuting type things rather than mtbs but the principle is the same) and they do feel like cycling, just like cycling with a strong tailwind.

Whilst I’m sure they’re a giggle to ride the red sock brigade are going to go three shades of mental when these start appearing regularly.
I can genuinely see these as opening up old access debates all over the place and giving the NIMBY’s a huge stick to beat us with.

E-bikes are a tricky quandry for Strava but that’s a sideshow compared to the affect they could have on access.

“Allow mountain-bikes and next thing you’ll get motorbikes” is a common line of reasoning I’ve heard from the anti-MTB crowd, the appearance of E-bikes will mean that they’ll finally have something to back this up and you can well believe they’ll milk it for all it’s worth.

This x 1000.