The (e-)apocalypse is nigh!

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 200 total)
  • The (e-)apocalypse is nigh!
  • LoCo
    Member

    Don’t fancy having one burst in flames while charging like some of the cheap lights have been know too though 😉 Would probably leave a fair sized crater.
    EDIT: do those macks come in pink? 😆

    ton
    Member

    one thing I know for certain, when you run out of charge mid ride, they are a complete bastard of a lump to get back to the start point of the ride.

    tho you could always buy a 2nd battery (£600 for a bosch) to carry round as a back up, like I did.

    Premier Icon tomd
    Subscriber

    I can buy into that with caveat as long those medically or injury afflicted are exempt.

    ton
    Member

    nemesis, pleas name me some good lights, that cost only a few quid?

    LoCo
    Member

    Seriously anyone who hasn’t ridden one should get a test ride to get their heads round how they actually work & their limitations.

    deviant
    Member

    They’re fun as in novelty value…the reality is that they’re a 50lb MTB.

    People on here regularly fret about whether their bike is a couple of pounds over or under 30lb…people on here regularly talk about how the Fox-34 is crap for a long travel MTB these days.

    The one i rode was a Haibike with a Fox-34…on a 50lb machine.

    …i wont go into detail but the anaolgy of being pushed from behind works, thats a pretty good description.

    Dynamically the bike is crap….once the novelty of ‘ooh look how easy that climb was’ wears off you’re left with a 50lb MTB with a crap fork on the front….and one that is at the limits of what the brakes can handle to boot. 😯

    I can see a place for them re. rehabilitation of the injured or unwell but for those who actually enjoy mountain biking they’re simply not good enough bikes to enjoy riding all the time.

    With regard to the NIMBY’s….they will focus one the fact it has a 250w motor…that can be deristricted.
    They wont care about the semantics of ‘pedal-assist’….to the anti-brigade this is now a motorised MTB regardless of how that motor is used, the fact it doesnt directly drive the rear wheel will be glossed over….and as for racing against non E-bikes, dont make me laugh….that is simply not fair, human power vs human power + 250w…nope, they should have a seperate class cheers.

    ton
    Member

    well put deviant.

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    Well, ok, I’ll call ‘a few quid’ about £25 for an MJ808 (though I have seen those at £15 occasionally).

    The point stands though, things will inevitably head down the direction of lighter/cheaper/more duration. Exactly how long that takes to get to a certain point will be subject to debate but it will happen.

    LoCo
    Member

    Wouldn’t be able to keep up with the team guys other than uphill on the ebike, regarding the forks see my earlier posts, set of 36s would have made it more manageable.
    Brakes weren’t an issue, more the level of grip from the tyres and the ‘push’ you mentioned on the front, soft rears got shredded fair quickly too due to power being put out on rocky surfaces round south wales.
    Media wise, yes I agree with your point, however on the trails I doubt many people would notice what type of bike it is though.

    amedias
    Member

    and as for racing against non E-bikes, dont make me laugh….that is simply not fair, human power vs human power + 250w…nope, they should have a seperate class cheers

    Yeah, I don’t think anyone is suggesting they would be allowed in the same class are they? Just one of those hyperbolic statements thrown out there to divert attention form other poorly argued points.

    With regard to the NIMBY’s….they will focus one the fact it has a 250w motor…that can be deristricted.
    They wont care about the semantics of ‘pedal-assist’

    you’re right of course, but that stems from misunderstanding and misinformation (deliberate or otherwise), if you can get to the point where people understand how they do work then anyone arguing that point will be rightly shot down as misinformed, and the illegality of using unrestricted bikes should be dealt with as that, illegal use by the minority, and not a reason to persecute the law abiding.

    Or, take the other tack and fight back by complaining how they are trying to persecute and restrict the use of valid, safe and non-damaging ways for injured, disabled and less able people enjoying the same activities, it becomes much harder to argue for a banning when you portray it in that light, as the nasty redsocks persecuting the disabled 😈

    As with all things like this it’s all about the spin you put on it, but right now, while they are in their infancy is the time to dispel myth and misunderstanding.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    Having seen my disabled 8 year old son struggle with a kids’ e-bike I can tell you that you don’t just sit on them and press a button and be whisked away into the sunset. You have to ride it like a normal bike. I’m watching this genre of cycling with great interest and if it costs £2/3k to get him riding with me that’s money well spent. Bring it on.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    soft rears got shredded fair quickly too due to power being put out on rocky surfaces round south wales.

    Bit worrying to think what they might do to softer trails then?

    IHNRAEBADWTTYVM

    LoCo
    Member

    Bit worrying to think what they might do to softer trails then?

    Not an issue I came across while riding mud, like I said couldn’t get the rear to spin even when trying to prevoke it, had the bike for a month or so and had tested (played) with it on a fair few trails and conditions.
    Gummy DH/trail tyres come apart pretty quick with normal riding in the valleys.

    amedias
    Member

    Bit worrying to think what they might do to softer trails then

    About as worrying as people mashing a spinny gear on their normal MTB through soft trails, or inappropriate skidding etc.

    I’m not saying it’s a non-issue, but again it comes back to the kind of people that will/do ride bikes like this are unlikely to be putting down max power anyway, they’ll be roughly equivalent to a normal gnarcore MTBer, you’re not going to see a sudden uptake of super fit cyclists suddenly take up eBiking.

    Seriously, take Loco’s advise and try one, get a feel for how they actually work, and how much assist they actually give, it’s always better to be informed 🙂

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    it’s always better to be informed

    You know this is stw, right?

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    amedias, all spot on imo, good points well made. E bikes imo are either road-legal pedelecs that are nothing to worry about or they’re in the same group as mopeds, ‘crossers etc – neither is any threat to current bike access. Let the anti-bike grumps and nimbys moan, it’s what they’re there for.
    (ridden some road-legal e bikes)

    Premier Icon slidewinder
    Subscriber

    I think the problem is that e-bikes are a little misunderstood. It’s kind of like comparing real ale and lager or red wine and white wine – one’s never going to replace the other, but they both have their place.

    I was like most people completely anti-ebike until October last year when we went to Granada and my girlfriend booked us on a tour of the city and mountains which used e-bikes. What I realised is that it can still be hard work if you want it to be, you pick the amount of assistance you require 1-3 (or no assistance if you really want to ride a 22kg bike up a mountain track). The main advantage is that you can see far more in 3 hours than you otherwise would with pedal power alone – so I think they have a purpose.

    Would I buy one myself and take it to Llandegla or the Peak District? -No, that’s not really what they’re for. Would I consider hiring one if I was touring in the alps and had a limited number of days and wanted to go off road- possibly, yes! Especially if I was with a mixed ability group and the purpose was more about taking in the surroundings rather than riding principally for exercise.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    I do suspect we might see a few Ebike related injuries, when less fit, less skilled peeps riding these fast and heavy bikes “get it wrong” and come a cropper! (i REALLY don’t fancy getting hit on the back of the head by a 50lb ebike when i go OTB!)

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    We need to look at them as pedal assisted motor bikes rather than motor assisted bicycles.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    Wow, those “speed unlimiting” dongles are a nice little earner! £150 for a total of £1 worth of electronics (just a frequency “divide by two”)!

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    zippykona – Member
    We need to look at them as pedal assisted motor bikes rather than motor assisted bicycles.

    Well, you can look at them however you choose but if you’d actually ridden one you’d realise that they’re (currently at least) actually nothing like that…

    ton
    Member

    wot no machine gun?

    wrecker
    Member

    Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like.

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    Watch it ton!

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    Wrecker – Not me FWIW.

    Premier Icon hatter
    Subscriber

    With regard to the NIMBY’s….they will focus one the fact it has a 250w motor…that can be deristricted.
    They wont care about the semantics of ‘pedal-assist’….to the anti-brigade this is now a motorised MTB regardless of how that motor is used,

    Well put

    It’s also worth pointing out that the people we’re going to come up against on this issue don’t care about the subtle differences between motorbikes, e-bikes and mountain bikes, they want to get rid of ALL bikes in ‘THIER’[/i] countryside and they’ll use the fact that to the general public bike + motor = motorbike as a very effective stick to beat us with and try and get us all banned.

    I have ridden several e-bikes, they were hilarious but I am hugely worried by what impact the offroad versions could have on the freedom to go MTB’ing in this country considering how vociferous the anti-brigade are and how sensitive access to some of our most treasured riding spots (Surrey Hills anyone?) is.

    LoCo
    Member

    Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like.

    I’m not as I think you’ll have guessed from my posts, just giving you what I found from my time on one

    ton
    Member

    not me. owned 2 through illness. they were super, but got rid as soon as I was fixed.

    I reckon some of the haterz would love em too if they got ill, and ebikes kept em riding.

    munrobiker
    Member

    There is a lot of misinformation going around, and as a result a lot of poorly formed opinions. The vote on the front page is already being won by “I don’t like electric bikes and have not ridden one”.

    Caveat- I used to sell electric bikes, I now no longer work in the bike industry but maintain that they are a good thing. I was skeptical before I spent a decent amount of time on one. I now work as a geologist and don’t sip the kool-aid of the bike companies.

    As stated above, all comparisons to motor bikes are unreasonable. You have to work to keep the bike moving, you can’t just sit there. Also the assistance is limited to a speed which you are likely to exceed on a lot of terrain pointing anything other than uphill. On rough tracks where you’d be going slower it’d be advisable to turn off the electric assist as it may give you more of a boost than you need.

    So, they can’t go faster than a normal bike downhill. Which is where most confrontation in our sport will occur. I doubt any walker will have been whacked going uphill by a speeding cyclist. Similarly, the thing riding the bike still has a brain with which it can register that there are walkers ahead and slow down. Up most uphills you are unlikely to be doing near the top speed- it is still hard work to pedal the bike, but you are assisted.

    They don’t put down much more power than a normal bike, and are not likely to chew up the trails compared to a normal cyclist. Especially in the volumes that will be sold- they aren’t going to become the next enduro bike.

    This opens up our sport to more people who would not be able to do it, older people, people with disabilities and illnesses that mean they could not normally cover larger distances, people who are injured. I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.

    They will really shine as commuter bikes rather than MTBs- someone who wants to get to work cheaply but doesn’t want to get to work sweaty and has a 10 mile commute to cover now has a genuine alternative to a car. The shop I worked in sold most e-bikes to people like this who wanted to ditch the car but had a distance they could not reasonably commute as someone who wasn’t a cyclist, and wasn’t getting into cycling for fitness.

    Premier Icon hatter
    Subscriber

    Oh, and I have no business interest in offroad E-bikes, which you probably have already gathered.

    wrecker
    Member

    I’m not as I think you’ll have guessed from my posts, just giving you what I found from my time on one

    Ha! We all know who you are Loco!!!

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    It’s also worth pointing out that the people we’re going to come up against on this issue don’t care about the subtle differences between motorbikes, e-bikes and mountain bikes, they want to get rid of ALL bikes in ‘THIER’ countryside and they’ll use the fact that to the general public bike + motor = motorbike as a very ineffective stick to beat us with wave while moaning pointlessly and trying futile attempts to gain any credibility and get us all banned.

    How will they get us banned though? One is a pedallec and can use the same trails we all ride now. One is like a moped and can’t. So, no change there unless the road or traffic class laws are re-written.
    They may not care about the differences, that’s exactly why they’re moaning idiots : ) If they understood they’d see how pointless it is.

    Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like.

    A hand up here – sort of. Had a city-leisure pedalec made to our spec as a try-out. E-MTBs, no interest personally or professionally.

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    Well put

    It’s also worth pointing out that the people we’re going to come up against on this issue don’t care about the subtle differences between motorbikes, e-bikes and mountain bikes, they want to get rid of ALL bikes in ‘THIER’ countryside and they’ll use the fact that to the general public bike + motor = motorbike as a very effective stick to beat us with and try and get us all banned.

    I have ridden several e-bikes, they were hilarious but I am hugely worried by what impact the offroad versions could have on the freedom to go MTB’ing in this country considering how vociferous the anti-brigade are and how sensitive access to some of our most treasured riding spots (Surrey Hills anyone?) is.

    This!

    Premier Icon nach
    Subscriber

    IHREB

    But it was a modified old MTB with a throttle and custom built drivetrain. It was great fun. The chap who built it said he often rides it to the shops.

    If ebikes become a problem on Strava, they’ll probably add an extra category for them. It already has loads beyond ride and run.

    doh
    Member

    Think most of the hate is from the trail gods that will have spent 4-5 grand on an boutique bike and are upset they might get passed by a biffer on a cheaper bike with a motor. Add fatbike to ebike you get the perfect recipe to wind these people up.

    andyl
    Member

    I would have thought that with the e-assist they could potentially be smoother uphill than a normal bike and potentially cause less damage. Especially if they are a fat-bike.

    Personally I don’t have a problem with them provided they stay speed restricted, as without it there is the potential for some very high speed accidents.

    If it gets people out who wouldn’t be able to otherwise then great. If other people want to use them anyway I still don’t have a problem. What difference does it make to me? Maybe those people will switch to a normal bike after e-biking for a bit. Maybe they won’t.

    I don’t give a crap about Strava times and I don’t see the point. Most of the time my best sense of satisfaction is competing against myself. The rest of the time it’s having fun with mates and making sure you’re not the last one down the hill/to the pub. But making sure you all make it safe and sound. If a mate is best on an e-bike then so be it, it make it more a challenge for the rest of us to make sure we beat him/her.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
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    doh
    Think most of the hate is from the trail gods that will have spent 4-5 grand on an boutique bike

    You called?? lol!

    Seriously though, i’m not sure i class ANY kind of motor assisted two wheeled vehicle in the same class as my mountain bike? I mean, my current local MTB loop takes me about 45mins,but i could probably do it in 15mins on an Enduro Motorbike. But why would i ever compare them? As soon as ANY significant power is coming from a source that isn’t your legs, it’s not a pedal powered device. Perhaps i should enter the TDF on a R1 with a couple of cranks and pedals stuck to the side? I’d make those 60kph stage average speeds look WELL slow! 😉

    skydragon
    Member

    Just out of interest Skydragon, have you ridden one?

    no and I’ve no interest in doing so.

    I get the fact it’s a modest power assist rather than press a button and shred. I also respect the fact that for some disabled people, an e-bike may offer a way of experiencing cycling which they might not otherwise be able to do so.

    But I still stand by the view that if the average Joe starts buying an e-bike as a way to experience MTB riding (possibly fuelled by the belief it will be physically easier) then we are going to see a whole load of problems. If MTB e-bikes start becoming mainstream, I personally believe this is a bad thing as per my OP.

    As already pointed out, when you get too old to pedal, there is the option of stopping riding (the route I will choose in the not too distant future)

    Premier Icon nach
    Subscriber

    doh – Member
    Add fatbike to ebike you get the perfect recipe to wind these people up.

    munrobiker
    Member

    As soon as ANY significant power is coming from a source that isn’t your legs, it’s not a pedal powered device.

    E-bikes do not add significant power. They add a small amount.

    I also don’t buy that average joes will buy them. They will cost a lot for a good one for a very long time.

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