Ugh – first world problem time again, but thanks for reading 🙂

Son has just come home with GCSE options booklet from school
Even if I say so myself he’s bright and has always done well at exams
The school is ‘good’ and almost certainly knows what its doing

The whole year has been told they can take 9 GCSE’s
Last summer the local paper was full of local kids with 12 lots of which were from our school
He can take music or PE as an extra to make 10 at nightschool with them but thats the lot

Presumably this is a result of the move to make the GCSE’s purely exam based?

As I said I am happy to take the school’s advice here and Im not pushing for him to do 17 GCSE’s but Im curious as to what other schools are recommending for their bright kids and if having 9 when lots of others have 12 will be a handicap at UCAS time.

The only serious question I have is that due to the curriculum he has been given a choice between geography, which he likes, and art. He’s very creative and great at drawing. Id think it was a crime if he didnt carry on with art but worry its not a “real” subject like geography and he will be penalised when applying for uni.

Cheers – comments welcome

Go for Geography coz Art is a very subjective subject.

My niece took Art for her GCSE …

Art will also take up plenty of his time so best avoided at this level.

I’m an engineer. If he enjoys art, he should do it, unless he would prefer to do Geography. I recall some idiotic choices of this kind when I was at school and we only did around 7 O Levels (GCE) in those days. I can’t imagine how anyone can cope with 12 of the damned things.

The whole point of GCSEs is continuous assessment rather than exams, far as I knew. (first year to do them)

Just gone through this and it was relatively straightforward. I was in favour of him doing what he wanted, rather than what in theory might be considered best for uni. I think kids need to find out where their interests and aptitudes lie. Down the road if they are good at something then they are likely to succeed.

So my boy took PE – very easy for him as he plays water polo to a good standard so counts this, swimming and life saving. Apparently harder if you are majoring in football.

He did art – this does take a lot of time but what else would he be doing? Playing on X box most likely. It will be one less subject to revise for in the end.

He dropped geography and all languages – simply hated them

Does all the sciences (triple), maths, English, history plus product design.

No regrets. He is enjoying this year at school much more than the last.

With two urchins (one in YR13 and one in YR10) this is something very fresh for us! For bright pupils I would say stick to GCSE rather than vocational of BTEC courses. Make sure he does proper triple science and not the watered down double science.
Our school offers a choice of Geography or History, both are respected subjects. RE is a good course to top up the number of GCSE’s.
I would say that anything 9 and above is gravy. Much better to get a good set of A’s and A*’s (or grade 1 in the new ones…at least I think 1 is good, rather than 9?) rather than a larger number of B grades in other subjects.
At GCSE it is good to do at least one or two subjects that won’t be progressed at A-level, but will show a rounded skill set. eg my son is looking to do maths and science, but he has good gcse grades in Music and Drama and RE.
Universities really only care about A-levels. My son has applied this year and all the Uni cares about is whether he can get A*AA at A Level.

Is he doing separate sciences, i.e Physics, Chemistry, Biology or (Combined)Science. The former = 3 GCSEs, the latter = 2 GCSEs normally.

What are his compulsory subjects? English, Maths, etc and how many options can he choose, i.e, how many option lines are there, as opposed to how many subjects are available?

FWIW many schools are linking with other schools or colleges to give additional flexibility. There is also the possibility of extra-mural study.

Here in Wales we also offer the Welsh Baccalaureate, worth yet more UCAS points. https://www.ucas.com/ucas/undergraduate/getting-started/entry-requirements/tariff/tariff-tables/986

You say 9, but is one if them double or triple science, which AFAIK counts as separate GCSEs at the end?
The govt are moving the goalposts again with the new GCSEs, you must take English and Maths (these are double weighted), then you must also take science and another 3 or 4 core subjects – language, RE, humanities. Then the kids normally get 2 free choices – things like DT, Art, Music, Drama, PE, etc.
There is also going to be a hell of a lot less coursework or controlled assessment. Maths and languages i think will have none, English will drop from 50% or so to nearly none. Even DT will be dropping from 60% to either 50 or 40%.

Unless things have changed GCSE’s don’t count towards UCAS points, so just let him take whatever he wants.

As long as he gets 5, including Maths and English, it doesn’t really matter what the others are unless it’s something he wants to take further in college.

Parents get too stressed about GCSE’s but in reality all they are , are the way to access the next level of education. Look at what he’d need to get into college/sixth form and work back from that.
9 will be plenty and then just let him enjoy his spare time and build up other non academic skills.

The new GCSE specs are designed to be quite a bit harder, so that’s probably behind the drop to 9.

What are his plans for after GCSEs? It’s worth looking into their entry requirements, to make sure he’s not closing any doors.

Unless things have changed GCSE’s don’t count towards UCAS points, so just let him take whatever he wants.

They don’t count towards the offers given by universities, but they might look at them when deciding whether to make an offer, especially with A levels going to linear.

GCSEs don’t really matter. Aslong as he passes them, and gets a good grade in English, Maths and Science.

I would definitely encourage him to do Art if he enjoys it; more likely to get a good grade at it, and perhaps take it as an A Level aswell.

Geo teacher here; my advice is do what you enjoy the most because you’ll work hardest at it and do well. Dont’t do something that you’re not good at as you’ll soon hate it.

Saying that; languages and humanities are seen as the tougher options to prove yourself. If you’ve got decent literacy these will be fine.

Coursework is going, might be worth reading the draft GCSE specifications on the exam board websites to see if he’s interested in them.

The school should have a parents evening about this, if not ring the tutor/head of year and ask their advice. They’ll give honest advice about what is best for your son.

They don’t count towards the offers given by universities, but they might look at them when deciding whether to make an offer, especially with A levels going to linear.

Universities are more likely to consider how rigorous your A levels are first.
Subjects such as Maths, chemistry, physics will be looked at better than media studies. I doubt if Cambridge care if you did Art or Geograhpy at GCSE level?

Schools this year are being measured in ‘progress 8’ rather that % A* to C grades. Progress 8 is the amount of progress students make in 8 valid GCSE or equivalent subjects. Progress being the added value the school puts into the student from the end of primary school to the GCSEs. Changes in what are ‘valid’ subjects means most school (state ones anyway) are reducing their option offer and giving more hours teaching to the more academic subjects. 9 GCSEs will be about the norm.

Colleges will still want 5 good GCSEs including English and maths to get into, as will employers and university so the number of GCSEs achieved won’t go against you unless it’s under 5, or unless you specifically don’t have the GCSEs in the course you want to move on to.

Universities are more likely to consider how rigorous your A levels are first.
Subjects such as Maths, chemistry, physics will be looked at better than media studies. I doubt if Cambridge care if you did Art or Geograhpy at GCSE level?

You’re right in that they won’t care about the subject necessarily, but they will certainly care about the result. And they would certainly care if the GCSEs were actually ‘equivalents’ as opposed to traditional.

But I genuinely wouldn’t worry too much, as long as he enjoys what he is doing. When he chooses his A-Levels, there are very few (maths, the sciences, and modern languages perhaps) that will require he have done a GCSE in them first.

going through this with my lad. wants to do triple science, 6 1.45hr exams – brings back horrid memories!

personally i think you need to strike a balance with what they enjoy and what they will need. if you push them down the route of just taking what you think is best its likely to backfire.

Loads of teachers on here and Tinder, apparently… IMO
1) get the ebacc.
2) play to strengths of your child.
3) ask at parents eve predicted grade.
4) times are a changing, terminal exams, no coursework. revision key. exams harder, however OFQUAL will manipulate pass rate for consistency and no sudden drop in pass rate.

As said above, Progress 8 is more than likely behind the school’s drop to 9 GCSEs. Rightly or wrongly school leadership teams are driven more by league tables and Ofsted than what’s necessarily best for the widest range of students.

Don’t (and I say this as a teacher) be pressured by the school or teachers at parents’ / options evening into choosing courses that you’re not 100% happy with just for the sake of potential results.

Personally, I do fear that the current structures are squeezing the arts too much and that in a few years time one of our strongest (and still growing) economic sectors will be dead on its arse due to current governmental shortsightedness. So, if your kid is good at art and enjoys it, let him do art.

Thanks
The teacher vibe is strong on this site, which is why I posted here 🙂

Firstly I had never heard of Progress 8 which does seem to explain where this has come from.

His fixed subjects are:

English language
English lit
Maths
Double combined science

Current plan is to definitely do art instead of geography if it wont penalise him but still unsure about the extra science thing. He really has no idea of what to do for A level let alone career and/or university and missing 3 sciences would be a disaster if he wants to do science wouldnt it? But again this limits his choice of humanities.

Bottom line is he’s on his own, but thanks again for the info so I can do some low key “dad stuff” as necessary

Cheers

missing 3 sciences would be a disaster if he wants to do science wouldnt it?

No, not at all. The a levels are designed to move on from double sci, its no barrier at all. Doing triple science may mean he is with more motivated kids though which may be an important factor even if he likes arts subjects more.
Eng, maths, science a language, a humanity and other stuff they like seems like a plan.

Peogress 8 does hit the arts badly but it also shifts the focus to all kids grades not just the c d borderline kids.

Couger have you not heard of mr gove?

The only subjects not getting squeezed for time are maths and English due to dbl weighting, and I wouldn’t want the horrific pressure that puts them under!

Personally do what you enjoy at GCSEs get the best grades/numbers you can and then think carefully about next steps when choosing level 3 courses! (A level/ Btec)

Double science is fine as preparation for A level science.

However, I’d maybe look into how they timetable. Taking triple science might mean his non-science lessons are with the kids taking triple science, which might mean better behaviour and work ethic?

anagallis_arvensis – Member
Peogress 8 does hit the arts badly but it also shifts the focus to all kids grades not just the c d borderline kids.

Absolutely, and that’s the good thing about it. Just wish they had put forward a more balanced weighting for the ‘buckets’ that reflected students’ interests and the economic realities of the nation rather than some perceived (and IMHO anachronistic) ‘academic’ hierarchy.

Got this problem next year, so interesting thread.

My thoughts are that unless a kid has a specific career in mind, they should do what they enjoy and gave a flare for. I was advised to do “serious” subjects, and dropped two subjects I’d been top of the year at. Still got 9 “O” levels, 6 at A grade, but screwed up A levels I wasn’t that interested in and then dropped out of Poly.

If they are good at something and interested in it, they will work at it and do well, and jobs and higher education will flow from the resulting better grades.

GCSEs don’t really matter

I was thinking this but I’ve now learnt that the GSCE results are used by Universities as A level projections and base their offers on them – so they do indeed matter.

I’ve heard that Art takes a lot of time so my eldest didn’t bother (although was A grade at the time of making choices) and went for DT instead.

I love geography and it’s very useful in the big bad world, but if your son doesn’t enjoy it then don’t bother. He should do stuff that he enjoys – applies to A levels as well apparently.

Accumulating loads of gcses is just junk. The state schools went through a period of loads gcse as a sort of scatter gun to try and catch 5 A*-C grades. It was madness for most. At the time the local independents stuck to about 8 or 9.

I have a friends in admissions at Oxford University. They’re not looking for loads of gcses. They are assuming high grades and really not keen on any slip ups. So friend has said 8As and a C is worse than 8As because it begs the question why you didn’t do well in one.

New GCSEs are a lot harder to pass, both in terms of the spec and also the grade which is considered the equivalent of a C is higher now. As your kid is bright, the grade which is the equivalent of an A* will be very hard to get – the top 20% of students nationally that get at least a grade 7 will be eligible to achieve a 9 (the top grade).

As his core subjects will be tougher, if he enjoys Art, let him do it.

I got warned in some job interviews that my c grades at GCSE were going to hurt my chances of getting through to the next round… Oddly I was in my late 20s and had a PhD… So they may not be important for UCAS but can be a differentiator afterwards…

Shen I did them our compulsory subjects were English lit and lang, maths, three sciences and a language. We then got to choose 3 extras…

If he is creative and stands a chance a B or better then do the art option as there won’t be another chance. I am not sure anything I did in geography is actually useful or can’t be done in a couple of hours of Wikipedia searching.. Actually you can add my history into that category too…

New GCSEs are a lot harder to pass, both in terms of the spec and also the grade which is considered the equivalent of a C is higher now.

Intrrigued as to how you know this as no one has done one yet or seen an exam paper. Certainly they are talking it up but the kids will still be the same. The kids will still be the same and certain grades are tied to proportions of kids so…..
A 9 will be harder to get than an a* but then they are not comparable.

8 subjects used to calculate progress 8/attainment 8

Each grade is given a point score. This is added together and divided by 10 (see below) to give an Attainment 8 score, an average grade if you like. Colleges and Unis will be looking at this closely in the future.

Progress 8 compares the Attainment 8 score against where the student should be given their starting point at the beginning of Y7 (Y6 SATS).

Moving forward I’d go for getting –

Slots 1 and 2

English Lan and Lit (doing both ensure that highest grade double counts)
Maths (double counts)

Slots 3, 4 and 5

Three subjects in total from

Hist, Geog, Sciences inc Computer sciences.

Slots 6, 7 and 8

Plus three other subjects and the lower of the two English grades. This is where the Arts, sports and everything else sits.

A total of 8 subjects with 10 grades being counted (best English grade double counted if lan and lit sat and maths double counted regardless)

All the courses have been toughened up and will be harder still moving forward.

At many schools the more academic pupils end up doing triple rather than double science. So doing triple science can be a way of ensuring you are in a class of more able pupils.

Why not do three sciences?

Not sure about notion that GCSEs don’t matter?!?

Had to balance art and geog but would tend towards geog – even thought historians refer to geog as colouring in!!! 😉

even thought historians refer to geog as colouring in!!!

As usual we disagree. Biology is colouring in, Geography colouring round the outside!

Just make sure you’re not closing the door to anything later on. Broadly, your school is correct that number of GCSEs is not really relevant. 9 good grades is better than 10 worse ones or 10 good ones and poor mental health due to stress.

A language is a good idea as X + a language at uni is a good choice for easier access to hard to get on courses due to lower demand.

Triple science helps with A level.

One of Geography/History/RS also a good idea to keep AS options open.

Remember if all your AS contain “studies” you might not be as appealing to some unis as if you had trad subjects.

Always interesting to see the misconceptions when talking about GCSE and A levels, as it explains a lot of the nonsense that my students have been told 🙂

DD1 choosings hers at the moment..she will be doing three sciences maths and eng plus 1 lang compulsory at her school shes sitting at least two early for some reason

school advises that only the top 3% nationally will get the top grade.
Its dd1 and schools expectation that that is where she sits. certainly exam based results will suit her style/temprement..if not her fathers..i managed to squeeze a U in maths having got 4% in the prelim.. badge of honour.. and i tried!

If there’s a chance that he might want to do something creative at university: architecture, design etc. then it would be worth hanging on to art for the moment.

school advises that only the top 3% nationally will get the top grade.

I just saw a suggestion that the ‘good’ pass rate (grade C/5) could drop about 23% – http://schoolsweek.co.uk/gcse-pass-rate-could-drop-23-under-new-reforms/

I hate the notion of preparing for exams solely, but a tip from a non science family (I got away with doing only Bio as a kid as it was considered the easiest at the time) – invest in CGP books. My two had no choice, they had to take three sciences (school rule). Learnt CGP books backwards and both A*s across the board (not meant to come out badly, just a tip).

Ironically had to convince younger one that the trick could not be repeated at PreU/A level. You did need a passion and ability by that stage!!

As #2 still says, CGP is your friend

https://www.cgpbooks.co.uk/School/books_gcse_science