As used in the Saracen Ariel frames(and perhaps others)in all pivots except the main pivots.
Likely to be comparable to sealed bearings in terms of plushability, maintenance, service and cost of replacement?
Could get partly around the jetwash problem?

What’s the frameset in the top picture ? 8)

TIA Dave.

The backend on my 2010 Areil, what rather ‘sticky’ from new and even when bedded in, so much so that whent the shock was removed and backend pulled up with frame in a bike stand it would stay where you left it and not fall to full travel/extend.

Thats not good…. 😕

its not not good. just shows that the bushes have a high coefficient of static friction.

you don;t ever load up the bike in that way,so it’s not necesarily an issue, it’s more about how much friction you generate once the bushings are sliding…

Nicolai are quite big believers in using bushes for certain applications within a suspension system, & if memory serves me, they use or used to use norglide on some of their frames. Turner are another company that spring to mind who use bushes. Mmmm, hang on, both the companies also offer 5 year transferable warranties on their frames. Coincidental, but demonstrates a confidence in their product that is difficult to match elsewhere. So are bushes so bad?

So are bushes so bad?

Prickly ones are, when you fall into them drunk…

If the above story is typical of quite severe stickyness of a Norglide bush, then that wouldn’t be good.
Tracknicko, but if the weight of just the swingarm isn’t enough to make it drop, surely that means that the plushness would be affected?

Tracknicko, but if the weight of just the swingarm isn’t enough to make it drop, surely that means that the plushness would be affected?

I can’t see how this can affect plushness; The force needed to get it moving (breakaway torque as Nicolai call it), is probably less than that needed to get the shock moving. That is, shock seals, mounting hardware/bushes etc. Also, just consider that at the very least, whilst using the bike, its got at least your weight to contend with,and the force generated by even the smallest bump will overcome any inherent friction in the bushes.

Think of it like this; is the force needed to move the swingarm by hand anywhere near your body weight?

But it’s that static friction, plus the static friction of the shock, the shock bushings etc, isn’t it?

Fitting needle roller bearings to the shock eyelet makes the rear suspension of my bike much more active over small bumps, so I don’t see why this would be any different. Probably great for durability though.

shepleg – Member

The backend on my 2010 Areil, what rather ‘sticky’ from new and even when bedded in, so much so that whent the shock was removed and backend pulled up with frame in a bike stand it would stay where you left it and not fall to full travel/extend.

Was that with the rear wheel still on?

mildred – Member
Nicolai are quite big believers in using bushes for certain applications within a suspension system, & if memory serves me, they use or used to use norglide on some of their frames. Turner are another company that spring to mind who use bushes. Mmmm, hang on, both the companies also offer 5 year transferable warranties on their frames. Coincidental, but demonstrates a confidence in their product that is difficult to match elsewhere. So are bushes so bad?

Banshee/Mythic were another company who went that route, and it was a disaster – to the extent that the Mythic distributor warned me off the bike when I phoned to price one.

Can be done well or done badly, I suppose – and it should be lighter than bearings – but can’t help thinking it adds a lot of friction to the suspension action.

Fitting needle roller bearings to the shock eyelet makes the rear suspension of my bike much more active over small bumps, so I don’t see why this would be any different. Probably great for durability though.

That’s b@loX they make FA difference and just introduce play into the system – wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole having measured the tolerances of all the ones currently available.

“Placebo effect” springs to mind!

cyclelife – Member
That’s b@loX they make FA difference and just introduce play into the system – wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole having measured the tolerances of all the ones currently available.

“Placebo effect” springs to mind!

You’re talking shite. 🙄 If you’d actually bothered to try it before slagging it off you’d know the reduction in friction is clearly noticeable.

Oh and not that it’s relevant in any way, but there is no play whatsoever using the Enduro kit, which contains several differently sized roller bearings so you can match it perfectly to your shock.

The SNR on this forum is getting worse.

^^ Sorry about the aggressive tone in that post … long day! 🙂

what’s SNR?

I’d guess signal to noise.

the fact the swingarm is sticky in the stand has very little to do with small bump compliance.

unless by small bump we are talking minute strain rate/activation speed and tiny tiny forces.

which we are not.

as mentioned – compared to the breakaway force (relating to static coeficient of friction) for an air can it will be teeny tiny.

Hello All,

Some more feedback on the NORGLIDE® composite bearings from Saint-Gobain – as used on our Ariel 140 and 160….

We’ve found that the Norglides are a fantastic alternative to traditional “ball” bearing races.

They don’t corrode and are resistant to wet muddy conditions – on average we have been replacing the Norglides every 2 seasons compared to the main pivot replacement every season. To be fait we only replaced the Norglides as a matter of course and there was no obvious wear when we pulled them out of the linkages.

They are a fit and forget solution in our eyes but as with everything cleaning with a jet wash, go easy on them as not to force dirt in… let common sense prevail.

Stickyness/friction – yes there is a little (breakaway torque) but as already pointed out it does not affect small bump sensitivity

On top of this they are very lightweight.

Quite a few brands are using the Norglide solution now (Evil/Norco) and more companies looking at it.

People will always theorize but its better riding them and finding out for yourselves.

Cheers,
Wildman – Saracen bikes

hardly unbiased…

And.. Bosh! You’ve been Googlestalked!

the fact the swingarm is sticky in the stand has very little to do with small bump compliance.

unless by small bump we are talking minute strain rate/activation speed and tiny tiny forces.

which we are not.

as mentioned – compared to the breakaway force (relating to static coeficient of friction) for an air can it will be teeny tiny.

This is bang on

Recently Turner made the decision to do the norglide thing and those bikes have used Igus bearings for years turner fanbois wont say a bad word but haterz will slate it as fast as they can

iirc 10 years ago the bad PR for plain bearings came from forums/magazines I remember reading a review that said a bike with bushings had lost marks for not having raced bearings???

Hold on a minute there are machine tools out there with plain bearings in the spindle that are 60 years old with no signs of wear.

A lot of folks seem to think the bearing is in a contact/contact state ,theres actually a critical part, that being a film of lubricant needed in there to stop wear,The holy grail is a true lubricant free composite bearing.

the other thing to consider is tolerances some plain bearings actually work nuch better under high loads, when there is no pressure the bearing will appear to have a higher breakaway force

both have pros and cons the main con for plain bearings is dirt in the system or the extra layer of protection that needs building in to seal it