Has anyone seen news of the landowner of the Hurtwood having to sell of chunks of her land? The Hurtwood covers most of Holmbury and Pitch hills.

Link below:

LINK

Doesn’t sound too good does it.

Nope. Maybe we could crowd source the funding to help her out with the taxes and build the World’s finest bike park?

Indeed a concern. The current owner has been very generous in allowing free access.

Nothing on the Friends of the Hurtwood website or facebook (not updated regularly these days anyway)

and build the World’s finest bike park?

Hmmmm….. nice idea but Whistler might argue that point. Or BPW, for that matter.

Would be Surrey’s finest, I’ll grant you.

How much does she need?

In seriousness, i’d assume there are various covenants and restrictions making it very unlikely it’ll become a housing estate

It’ll stay as it is with the possible exception that people have to stick to designated paths and bridleways – so maybe some mtb trails will go?

Some sort of crowd-funding thing might be cool – depending on the size of the tax bill!

Would raise the ‘goodness’ profile of the mtb community if we all donated…

Its about 800acres, so it aint going to be cheap.

The right to roam will disappear once the land leaves Shere manor estate ownership. They have sold smaller chunks of land off in the past, and the new landowners have kept it under friends of the hurtwood stewardship, but this time, who knows.

Paying this years tax bill won’t help with the next one. The freedom of use could very well go, it only takes the new owner to be worried about liability if/when one of injured ourselves (note if we say as MTBers we’d never sue we cannot control what our relatives might do in the event of serious injury)

Hopefully it remains as it is.

Its about 800acres, so it aint going to be cheap.

no, but the tax bill would be less and the crowdfunding could be them selling some sort of plot/extra access for the mtbers.

Like selling off the plot with yoghurt pots/telegraph road on.

As I understand it the Hurtwood comes under a group of land owners and managed by the Hurtwood. This would be one part of it.

I’d also heard that the area along the south of Winterfold along the edge, that’s Hurtwood controlled, had or was rumoured to be coming under new ownership, or maybe it’s to do with this.

As the article mentions it’s common land and has protection in law, including the rather unique right to roam and enjoy for leisure purposes by everyone, including bikes.

Eek. Hope it all pans out ok 🙁

Bit more info on the Rangers blog here

Hurtwood Ranger

Let’s buy the Hurtwood facebook page…

this is depressing news

trying to see what this means in financial numbers, but difficult to find anything as to what the land per acre value will be

I sent a private message to the facebook page with some suggestions to strengthen the proposal but to be honest it has zero chance of traction IMO. The best bet is if the National Trust could buy it but the access would be very questionable. The NT had involved the Police in he Surrey Hills accusing a well known local bike shop owner of “vandalism/destruction of trees/illegal trail building”

@tukaloosa – average price for working forestry land is a bit under 10k an acre. As this is in the South East it could be worth much more or indeed less.

At £9k an acre the land is worth about £7m which is probably a massive under-estimate

The NT had involved the Police in he Surrey Hills accusing a well known local bike shop owner of “vandalism/destruction of trees/illegal trail building”

Erm, yep. Sounds about right.

The figure of 2.2 million keeps being bandied about…

Thanks Jamba

have circulated the FB page to others around the village

seems asking prince is abt 2.2M

Checking in.

I’d happily contribute to a purchase fund if it will keep access open for all. As we know, this area is a gem.

Also: I was once told access to the Hurtwood was guaranteed by act of parliament, and couldn’t be removed without the act being repealed. Does anyone know the truth/accuracy of this?

This should be in bike forum.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/hurtwood-land-sale-after-owner-9245801#ICID=sharebar_twitter

I met Handa Bray- probably about 10yrs ago. A chance meeting out on Holmbury with another lady. We got talking and I found her very inquisitive, engaging and a delight to speak to.

She wanted to know why I liked cycling, what I got out of it, where I had come from etc etc.

I told her that riding round the Surrey Hills was amazing and felt grateful to have this so close to London when I lived there(well its not THAT close!). I also made a big fuss of her (or her friends) dog.

I didn’t know who she was from Adam at the time but when I saw a pic of her later the penny dropped.

I really really really hope it stays as open and as accessible to the public like us.

If it’d help (crowd funding) etc – I’d put money in. Even though I’ll probably never ride the Surrey Hills in my life again I can see the magic and the passion for mountain biking that it kindled and grew within myself.

Sorry for the long post.

Sadly if it goes to auction, and if indeed there is oil under there (or believed to be) then the value to prospectors will far outweigh anything we could hope to cobble together.

OTOH; how long do you have to have access without restriction to paths for them to become official RoW’s? Or can she dedicate certain well known trails as RoW’s herself?

value to prospectors will far outweigh anything we could hope to cobble together.

We should get collecting then and outbid them. STW could be the new Saudi Arabia 🙂

seems asking prince is abt 2.2M

Well I would gladly contribute something, if I win the euro-millions I’ll buy it outright !

My understanding is that oil belongs to the state not the land owner, though I guess ownership helps with access. It’s not like oil only sits in a vertical pocket directly below the ownership boundaries is it, it spreads out all over.

If I buy it does ownership give me right to ride naked on horseback around my land?

OTOH; how long do you have to have access without restriction to paths for them to become official RoW’s? Or can she dedicate certain well known trails as RoW’s herself?

Call me a cynic, but I can’t see her doing that. She can “hope” that the new owners will retain the right to roam access (and I’m sure that’s sincere), but at the end of the day she’s selling it because she needs the money. She’s unlikely to get more money by taking away bits of the land which can be ‘utilised’ by a new owner.

I’ve spoken to RK and there are/were to have a landowner’s meeting this week. It could well be that the other land owner’s may wish to buy it. There is no guarantee of the sale going public and of now there is no talk of closing trails or restricting access in any way.

In addition to buying the land factor in costs to maintain access etc. Not sure how many people who ride there even contribute or are members of the FotH.

All this to pay the government taxes.

Depends how strong the conviction is about whether it can be retained for use for recreation / by the community. Also depends how much it would ‘devalue’ the land, and / or whether that loss is material to the family’s needs.

Any idea how big the tax bill is? Just as an example, if the tax bill is a million, would they be convinced to sell it off in a means that would preserve its use for the future for a million – which would make it a very achievable proposition. OTOH, if you could get 5 million for it and the exploration rights (and yes, i don’t completely understand the legalities over who owns the oil and what difference that makes to the value of the land but just SUPPOSE that meant someone was willing to pay 5 million for it) – would the family forget the legacy bit once they saw £4 million in a suitcase.

[edit – that sounds wrong and isn’t meant to. I’m not suggesting, nor do I have anything to support that the family want the best price / don’t have interests at heart. Just playing whatif, particularly in the light of the paper saying it was going to auction which is a means to get best price as opposed to comments on other recent posts about negotiations for a private sale]

If access was restricted by the new land owners then it could be time to organise a mass disobedience, like Kinder Scout, but in Surrey…

She should sell it cheap to some mtb charity who then retain her services for management of the land, like logging rights, etc.

My wife is a member of paper court sailing club in nearby Send, and the owners of that reservoir could have sold it for loads to developers, but instead did the charitable thing and sold it to the boat club members.

She should sell it cheap to some mtb charity who then retain her services for management of the land, like logging rights, etc.

Why should she? Again, she needs the money…

I’d love for it to stay as is, but it’s not a charitable act

That was the point of my post, njee20.

IF (for example) she needs a million to cover the tax bill, she could sell it for a million in a form that preserves all that it has currently, and which is an attainable goal for a consortium of interested cyclists / locals / walkers, etc. She doesn’t have to, but equally she hasn’t had to keep it as is for the last however many years either. So you’re right, she doesn’t have to make it a charitable act but past history kind of suggests it’s not an outrageous possibility.

Which is why sending it to auction, which is a means to get the best price, as reported in theGetsurrey byline

Due to being unable to pay a capital gains tax bill, Shere Manor Estate will auction off 650 acres of previously public Hurtwood land

seemed to go against that.

My understanding is that oil belongs to the state not the land owner, though I guess ownership helps with access. It’s not like oil only sits in a vertical pocket directly below the ownership boundaries is it, it spreads out all over.

Yes we’ve discussed this before its my understanding when you buy land/property you explicitly do NOT get mineral rights. Its like if oil is discovered under “your” back garden, you don’t own it

Kind of funny that everyone is up in arms at anyone avoiding taxes but goes the other way when taxes on a large estate owner are threatening public land.

Maybe she just needs a good accountant. Mine does a good job, and I have no moral problems with my legal tax efficient arrangements 😀

Indeed @dk, have you seen the press around the hypocrites at U2, usual nonsense about not understanding what their accounts do but admitting they are very very smart,mine clear inference their tax arrangements are deliberately complex to reduce tax. All the same time complaining that big companies avoid tax.

don’t panic!

http://www.964eagle.co.uk/news/local-news/1614417/no-need-to-panic-over-shere-manor-estate-land-sale/