come on Drac you know there are only 2 types of workers Mon-Friday types and retail, robots do the rest.

Ya, I support Sunday trading or 24/7/365.

Their business so do as they like to survive.

But rich, wage aside, that is exactly what several people have said – I know I worked on a rota system, as do most services staff, which I had no control over except to try and get my leave requests accepted if I was lucky. So I have worked most of my career dependent on when it has been convenient for my boss, with no option to say it was unfair or I was entitled to the same day off every week without being reminded of how replaceable I was.

So you agree this system is unfair and shit, but you are happy for others to be subjected to the same shit system because you have to put up with it?

On the other side, the little expresses and locals can be mayhem on sundays after the bigger stores have closed so this would lessen the pressure on these stores, my store takes 20% of its takings on a sunday after the big stores shut and it takes us 3 days to recover the shop so there is a bonus.

For me I work in retail and none of my mates do they all have mon-fri 9-5 jobs so a sunday off is great but those days may be long gone.

Not sure that’s what I said but feel free to read that Rich – I was answering your point illustrating that retail staff on lower wage are not in a unique situation as some are trying to claim due to their jobs/ wage levels. I no longer work in that system as I got fed up with it so got more training/ qualifications and moved speciality so now work mon-fri 9-5 pointlessly posting on here 🙂
I was trying to draw comparison where retail staff appear to be seeking a special status with regards to having their Sundays off and you asked about the exact situation I was in, didn’t like and removed myself from. So no, I don’t have to put up with it, I changed my situation to improve my lot as can most people.

I changed my situation to improve my lot as can most people.

Ah yes…. this glorious meritocracy we live in, where everyone can literally live the dream, achieve your goals, the sky is the limit, whatever your background or circumstances? The only thing holding you back is you!!

*HIGH FIVE*

That’s great if you can improve your lot but for some people that isn’t practical or possible and working in a shop is it, as you need time and money to improve your chances and if you don’t have much of either you are stuck.

I personally would be happy for more people working in non-essential jobs to have Sunday afternoons off, rather than less.

richc – Member
So you agree this system is unfair and shit, but you are happy for others to be subjected to the same shit system because you have to put up with it?

It’s more like the inability of the person(s) in charge to come up with a good rota system to cope with Sunday trading.

ziggy
I’d rather have a return to the old days with shops closed, a day of rest with friends, family, working in retail myself all it does is increase overheads. A day off a week from consumerism is a good thing.

This. As the weekend is only 2 days short why not legislate that folks must have a day off from retail. Use the day off to encourage productivity in other sectors. We don’t need to spend money every day…

As the weekend is only 2 days short why not legislate that folks must have a day off from retail.

What an utterly ridiculous idea.

If you don’t want to use the shops on a Sunday then don’t.
If you own a shop and don’t want to be open on a Sunday then don’t.
If you work in a shop and don’t want to work Sundays then have a word with you boss.

I don’t see the fuss?

But who thinks it should vary from one local council area to another? Daft.

So can people only have fires RTC’s false alarms etc Mon-Fri 0800-1800 if you can also fit in childbirths during that timeacale so i can have some time with my wife that would be great so can have nights and weekends off.

Thanks

But who thinks it should vary from one local council area to another? Daft.

That’s just to placate the blue rinse, go to church twice a year, Christian Tory brigade. Th plan is that they can keep their Sunday Special in the home counties whilst the riff raft up North fight to death over consumer goods 7 days a week.

Well i learn something new…. i never realised that shops were shut on a sunday south of the border 😕

They are North of the border as well, or have you never been to the highlands and islands?

I live in the Highlands and can assure you that the same range of shops is available. Most small villages will have a store open on a Sunday – often it might be a filling station too. of course, there are still a couple of areas where folk are allowed to exercise their religious beliefs and not open if that’s what suits them.

I live in the Highlands and can assure you that the same range of shops is available.

Where you live isn’t really the highlands though is it. 😛

Bits of the west coast and the Hebrides where you will still get a stern word from your local minister for putting your washing out on a Sunday, let alone going to/working in a shop.

I work in an office which isn’t quite 24/7 but almost. I’ve worked evenings and weekends exclusively for years. I don’t like it, but it works for my family situation. One thing that bugs me constantly is the lack of support staff and senior management. If I turn up on a Saturday morning and need something unusual then I always have to wait until Monday. No good if I need a day off on Sunday or Monday!

Anyway, waffle aside -I propose that if shops are 24/7 then so should everything else. Banks, GPs (not the crap out of hours system),proper TV schedules through the middle of the night, hmmm…schools, yes why not. If the family is working through the night why shouldn’t the school. Mummy, Daddy and junior get to spend time together. 😉 Perhaps the government, local and national, should be 24/7. After all if I work until 3am every day it would be nice to do a bit of genealogy in the local archives before breakfast. 😆

But for definite, if a business elects to open unusual hours then it’s senior management, admin and support staff should work those hours as well.
It shouldn’t take long to work out well the system works. 😉

Drac
The shop workers deserve to have a bit of rest for themselves!
During the week when the trails are bless?

Genuine Q: have you worked any length of time in retail? As my experience is that people who haven’t don’t realise what the reality is.

You’re constantly asked to do extra shifts and made to feel a bit guilty if you refuse. Just because you’ve worked 5 days in a row doesn’t mean you’ll get a few day off any time soon. If someone phones in sick or is on holiday everyone pretty much has to do extra to cover the staffing shortfall. There is no real limit on how much you can be made to work as most employers write it into the contract that by accepting the job you waive your right to the working time directive.

It’s not as easy as some people think! When I see people being rude or arrogant towards shop, hotel, restaurant or pub staff I just want to hit them as they obviously have never done that type of job. Never get arsey with someone who is in control of what you eat, drink and where you sleep. Complain by all means but be reasonable.

I count myself lucky that my working hours are capped legally by tachograph rules, at least I’m guaranteed two consecutive days off every fortnight! I wouldn’t go back to retail now, even though I really enjoyed it at the time.

I don’t want a free-for-all on Sundays, but then again I rather like the village life aspect of a quiet time with a local shop run by a pensioner as something to do! Now if I can only move out of the city..

Why do people keep banging on about retail workers being forced to work 25 hours a day 8 days a week if shops are allowed open longer on sundays?

No they won’t! Some hours may change but you won’t have to work every hour/day the shop is open. You’ll probably still do a few days a week and some others will fill the other hours, that’s why retail work is so good for those who either don’t want to or can’t work 8:30 -5 Mon – Fri.

And if you work in retail and don’t like it, look for another job!!

My local Co-op is open 7-10 open a Sunday and it’s already killed of some of the indy shops in the area, but Lidl down the road can only open 10 – 4, why??

If you work in a shop and don’t want to work Sundays then have a word with you boss.

I’m sure that will work out well.

Genuine Q: have you worked any length of time in retail? As my experience is that people who haven’t don’t realise what the reality is.

You’re constantly asked to do extra shifts and made to feel a bit guilty if you refuse. Just because you’ve worked 5 days in a row doesn’t mean you’ll get a few day off any time soon.
So how about in return for allowing the small number of shops that are only open for short hours on a Sunday to open a full day the workers get some more protections?

Try working in agriculture or the emergency services. I can remember 3-4 weeks without a day off at times on the farm at times. Week after next I’ll be travelling on Sunday, working Tues-Saturday then travelling home Sun/Monday. Happens to plenty of people.

ads678
Why do people keep banging on about retail workers being forced to work 25 hours a day 8 days a week if shops are allowed open longer on sundays?

I can guarantee that the shops will have to supply the extra hours required from the existing staff pool ie no extra manpower. So everyone’s hours will increase. A 6 hour Sunday shift will turn into a 10 hour shift without any extra time off to make it up. The bottom line is king in retail. Like I said, if you haven’t worked in retail you don’t fully understand the methodology.

I can guarantee that the shops will have to supply the extra hours required from the existing staff pool ie no extra manpower.

Why?

Extra staff costs money to recruit and train. Why go to all that expense and hassle when you can just make use of the existing staff for a few more hours. They’re working that day anyway so getting them to do 9-5 instead of 10-4 makes no difference to the bosses.

Bottom line is King in retail for a lot of companies. Shareholders demand their dividends. You’ve just got to look at the introduction of self-service tills. Slower and more hassle for the customers but instead of having 6 till staff on £7/hr costing you £42/hr plus NI and pension payments you can have one assistant on £7/hr seeing to 10+ machines that don’t phone in sick, or need holidays and work 24/7. Costs the company a lot less per customer. The fact that we hate them makes no difference whatsoever.

will sunday be another working day in which case no extra pay for staff. Expect existing staff to work as part of the working week and commensurate the same.

Its another way of to get people to spend more time spending. How will traditional shops fair against the internet shopping which is open 247 / 365 with the adding overhead of opening longer on sundays. You have to ask the question why aren the council offices/ dvla, post offices open over the weekend too. I want to see parliament removing the summer break and have session on the weekend. Didnt think that was going to happen 🙂

try living in Germany – or mre specifically, Bavaria….

all shops are closed by 8pm during the week.

pharmacists close at 6 or 7 on a weekday, 4 or 5 on a Saturday and you can’t even buy paracetamol at a supermarket.

everything is closed on Sunday.

i often work late during the week and on Saturdays, which leaves me with nothing to eat for Sunday.

i wish they were more liberal towards opening times.

if given the option i would work on Sunday and have a day off during the week so that i can shop or go and enjoy the hills whilst everyone else is at work.

cheekymonkey888
will sunday be another working day in which case no extra pay for staff. Expect existing staff to work as part of the working week and commensurate the same.

Most likely, work the staff as much as you can for the least outlay. Apart from the older staff who have contracts that make them too expensive to work weekends (double time etc) so all the newer/younger staff get worked harder.

You have to ask the question why aren’t the council offices/ dvla, post offices open over the weekend too.

Strong unions that insist on their staff having a decent work/life balance. I work to live (well, ride), these changes will most likely lead to an erosion of the weekend being downtime. It will slowly become just another unspectacular day when life continues. Alpin’s scenario sounds rather good to me!!

I wouldn’t be bothered about this, in a country that had decent worker protection and in an industry that didn’t treat most of its staff like cogs in a money printing machine. But as it is, it’ll make a lot of people miserable and generally that’s not that good.

There could be a happy medium, eg no rules on shop hours but a legal limit on hours worked per week. That way you’d get flexibility without exploitation.

We do, it’s called the European Working Time Directive. But we have right of opt-out. Which some employers insist you do as part of your contract.

We do, it’s called the European Working Time Directive. But we have right of opt-out. Which some employers insist you do as part of your contract.

Well we do and we don’t, as it’s entirely optional in practice it’s about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

There is no real limit on how much you can be made to work as most employers write it into the contract that by accepting the job you waive your right to the working time directive.

Really?

Well given that’s illegal I’m not sure how that can be so.

Many years ago when I was a child moaning about shops being shut on Sundays and not open at night, my farther suggested that once everything opens all weekend/24 hours, it would be the thin end of the wedge for days off, ushering in flat rates of pay and seven day working across the board, seems he was on the right track.

Except he wasn’t right about working 7 days a week and minimum wage although rubbish stops employers paying less than that.

@ Drac all in good time we are getting there slowly.

I’ve witnessed the loss of higher hourly pay for weekends, nights etc. Seen contractors replace full-time employees with severely reduced working conditions and pay (effectively ending overtime and shift rates) People forced to reapply for their jobs under new contracts with reduced terms. It’s not just me either friends, family and acquaintances have all suffered the same onslaught on their incomes and working conditions, at least those that haven’t left the country yet, many of them have! Including added obligation to work longer hours and weekends on lower overall pay and the same rate as weekdays. It’s not what I would call progress and seems to be heading in one direction almost unopposed.

its pretty bizare in this day and age there are such stupid laws reguarding sunday trading down south. Really don’t understand why they are just not repealed by westminster and let the shop owners choose if they want to open or not.

Yeah the government is chasing after our unsocial hours pay the one thing that makes our wage a good wage. Increasing hours is a lot harder though thanks the EU regulations and H&S gone mad.

Seasonal contracts are being exploited too which isn’t great. I see why the should exist but they’re being abused.