So I placed the add in the wanted section,
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wtd-stans-flow-ex-on-hope-pro-2-hubs-26
On 5/3/15,I received the following email.

Hello,

I happen to have a mint literally used a handful of times for light duties set.
They are 15mm/135mm Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs on Stans Flow EX rims.
£230 couriered!
Regards,
Tim

I replied saying I was interested and after he’d sent me a couple of pics of the wheels still attached to his Blue Intense Spider, I agreed to send him the money. He said he’d prefer paypal gift but I sent it for goods and services just to cover myself.
He said he’d then let me know when he’d arranged a courier.
In the meantime I’d sold my existing wheels onto a friend and bought all the stuff I needed to set up my soon to be new wheels all nice and tubeless.

I emailed Tim on 9/3/15 for an update as I needed the wheels for the weekend,he sent the following response.

Hello,

I was literally going to just email you tonight as busy tomorrow.
Unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances, I am going to have to refund you the monies.
I’m very sorry as I understand you have been after a set for a while…
Can you please confirm your paypal address and I’ll send over £240 to see you good.
Oh and that if there’s any other parts you require then just let me know and I’ll check my spares box.
I’ll then send you off free of charge some parts to make up for this slight cockup and gesture of goodwill.
I’m expecting a payment tomorrow but will send you monies asap!
Regards,
Tim

I replied

Hi Tim,
thanks for the offer of something from your spares box but all I need at the moment are some wheels,,even more so now as I’ve sold my existing wheels on to a friend.
Please can you reimburse me asap as I now need to find some new wheels for the weekend.
Regards,
And then

Hi Tim,
I don’t what kind of unforeseen circumstances you have come across but surely if you’ve accepted and spent the money I sent you in good faith, I should have the wheels.
I noticed on STW forum that you (singlesteed) are splitting the rest of your bike and therefore checked the rest of your forum activity where I found that you had already sold the wheels to someone called Tuskaloosa 6 days ago.
I don’t know what’s going on but I’m now left in a position where I have no wheels, no money to buy a new set and a weekend of biking coming up with potentially no bike to ride.
All I can say is I’m disappointed and if I can’t have your wheels, as previously agreed, please can you return my money immediately so that I’m in a position where I can buy some replacement wheels.

His reply,
Shit,

I’m so sorry that is the case!

Of course I will refund asap.
Apologies again.

Check out rush cycles also as I think now they offer hope hoops new for a very good price, just call them.

They’re based in Wales iirc.
Regards,

Tim

And then,
Yes,
I will be waiting up tonight to make a full refund payment to you.
Am expecting a payment at around 2am no word of a lie.
I will refund to the email address in which you sent payment.
Regards,

Tim

So I received my refund this morning £240,,great a tenner in pocket. However ,when I checked my paypal account he’d sent it for goods and services leaving me a massive £1.60 in pocket, still got no wheels though.
I’m no Sherlock Holmes but I managed to contact the guy who’d already bought the wheels a week ago to see If he had actually received them. See following link.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/26-hope-pro-2-evos-on-stans-flow-exs.

The guy said he had indeed bought the wheels but was still waiting for them to be sent but will keep me posted.

Unforseen circumstances my a*~e,,Singlesteed(Tim Lott) you are a LIAR

I would avoid this seller at all costs and definitely don’t send him any money as Paypal gift.

In the grand scheme of STW Classifieds witch-hunts, someone who takes your money, screws up and refunds you promptly with a little bit of extra cash is hardly the devil incarnate, no?

Think you need to get some perspective here.

So you’re up on the deal? There’s no pleasing some folk.

Is this the queue for pitchforks?

The quick refunding suggests that he’s not a scammer, merely a halfwit 🙂

thegreatape – Member
The quick refunding suggests that he’s not a scammer, merely a halfwit

Agreed. A halfwit with cashflow issues.

You’ve been stewing in those juices for 4 whole days? You poor thing.

How can he not be a scammer when he’s accepted money for some wheels he’s already sold.

Definitely a halfwit who’s left me without any wheels.

-10 out of 10. Not sure you even know what a rant is.

Hold on a minute he sold wheels he had already sold [ and has still not delivered these] and you lot are defending him and criticising the OP 😯

Some days STW is a very strange place

Regardless of the scammer/not scammer aspect of it, poor planning on your part in selling your wheels before replacements were with you, what if they’d been lost in the post, or delayed, or damaged etc.

EDIT – realised the above sounds more scathing than I meant it to, was trying to highlight a way of protecting yourself from potential problems in the future, not bash you when you’re already down.

He’s not much of a scammer if he’s refunding the people he’s scammed.

Certainly agree that he is someone to avoid buying from.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I would also be p**sed off if I was in the OP’s shoes. Glad you got your money back.
This transaction is not too dissimilar to buying something from Planet-x

Agree with JY it’s not the OP’s fault is it?

I’d be naffed off. Maybe not quite so hystrionic but naffed off.

From the sellers point of view sounds like he posted the response to the wanted ad without noticing the offer from the third party and got his knickers in a twist. Still should have had the cash back with the OP tout suite though.

Well, he did refund him, maybe he is just a bit disorganised and confused sellers etc. There are plausible explanations for this.

Well, he did refund him, maybe he is just a bit disorganised and confused sellers etc. There are plausible explanations for this.

Wrong, I contacted the original buyer who said he’d purchased the wheels a week ago and was still waiting for them to be sent.

I’d be pretty disappointed in that situation, but I would certainly not have sold my own kit until I had received and checked the new secondhand ones – it’s not John Lewis or Asda, it’s an online forum, which is free….

Some folks are a bit haphazard, disorganised, that’s life…

The guy refunded, all is good (apart from the OP selling his wheels to a mate, which is unfortunate given outcome)

What does ‘purchased a week ago’ really mean though?

Assuming the best of the seller, seems he doesn’t know his a from his e, entirely possible the other buyer thought he’d struck a deal and sent cash a week ago, while in the meantime the seller hadn’t checked / realised that had actually been done.

I’m all for getting the forks out over dishonest sellers, and admittedly the above does assume the best of the seller, the worst is a totally different situation. But until the wheels either arrive or don’t arrive at the third party, jury’s out.

I’m not bothered about “getting the forks out”

I’m just warning other people that paypal gift to this guy might not be a very wise option.

Unless you know and trust the recipient we strongly advise against using Paypal Gift as a way of making payment to a seller. Paypal Gift transactions offer NO PROTECTION in the case of a dispute over a sale.

From here:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/note-new-rules-and-advice-on-buying-or-selling

This transaction is not too dissimilar to buying something from Planet-x

CHAPEAU

😆

Does it work out cheaper than using a payday lender? ‘Borrow’ £230 for 4 days and pay £10 for the privilege?

Good point..
That’s £460 borrowed for a few days and then giving back £480.
That said, wouldn’t you be better of pretending to sell a bike/forks?

This transaction is not too dissimilar to buying something from Planet-x

Now you’ve pointed it out, I wholeheartedly agree.

I’m just warning other people that paypal gift to this guy might not be a very wise option.

Your money is OK. But he didn’t PPG to you; maybe he didn’t trust you?

But he didn’t PPG to you; maybe he didn’t trust you

He’s in the process of raising a dispute right now I reckon 🙂

I am sure nothing will come from it but I would be cautious having received a payment back to me as a goods and services payment rather than a refund attributed to the original funds to him 😕

Tin foil hats at the ready but given the above whats to stop the sender of the money claiming it back for goods or services not received?

It would have been exactly the same process, e.g.funds from a PP balance or from a debit/credit card, to have simply refunded the original transaction even if he had withdrawn the funds.

I think a good deal of folk on this thread are being unnecessarily harsh on the OP 🙄

Thanks for the heads up OP, one seller to avoid.

Anyone that takes payment for an item they have already taken payment for is more than disorganized and is dishonest. Especially not refunding immediately.

Your money is OK. But he didn’t PPG to you; maybe he didn’t trust you?

did it come through as a refund, or just a payment? If its the latter i wonder if he could use paypals buyer protection against the original buyer? i.e. make a refund as a “payment” then open a dispute on goods not received or something.

I’m not suggesting this is planned or anything, just curious if it could happen.

EDIT – beaten to it by legend 🙂 and LMTTM 🙂

The payment never came though as a refund but attached to it was a note from Tim…Full refund for Hope wheel set. Tim. Sent via mobile using the PayPal app.

Hold on a minute he sold wheels he had already sold [ and has still not delivered these] and you lot are defending him and criticising the OP
Some days STW is a very strange place

Exactly.

Also, the seller asked for PayPal Gift, and refunded when it was sent as a payment for goods (dodgy)

Also previously sent the same wheels to someone else, who’s not received them yet (paid for by PayPal gift possibly?)

Also, as above, your “refund” was sent as a PayPal goods payment, so it can disappear at any moment (unless you have proof of postage for something he didn’t even buy from you)

All sounds a bit iffy.

He’s not much of a scammer if he’s refunding the people he’s scammed.

It does sound like a somewhat flawed scam. 😕

Does look like greed and incompetence rather than malice… but he may just be playing the long game.

vermillion – Member

The payment never came though as a refund but attached to it was a note from Tim…Full refund for Hope wheel set. Tim. Sent via mobile using the PayPal app.

😡 😐

Op, have you thought what you might spend your £1.60 on?

Can’t you borrow your mate’s old wheels?

Also, as above, your “refund” was sent as a PayPal goods payment, so it can disappear at any moment (unless you have proof of postage for something he didn’t even buy from you)

All a scammer (talking purely theoretically, you understand) would have to do with this is wait until the window for claiming on the original payment had passed and then open a claim of his own!

Unless he thought the sale to Tuskaloosa had fallen through, tried to flog them on to you, only to find that the sale to Tuskaloosa was in fact still a goer? Something like that maybe? I don’t know, just playing devils advocate. Looking at his history I’m not getting the sinking feeling that you are dealing with a master criminal here, more like he cocked up and didn’t deal with it very well.

EDIT – too slow

If a scam Zilog has it nailed.

Also, as above, your “refund” was sent as a PayPal goods payment, so it can disappear at any moment (unless you have proof of postage for something he didn’t even buy from you)
All a scammer (talking purely theoretically, you understand) would have to do with this is wait until the window for claiming on the original payment had passed and then open a claim of his own!

So, repeatedly selling the same wheels, asking for paypal gift, refunding people who use goods and services, and performing that “refund” via a new GnS payment which can be disputed later.

I’d be contacting Paypal and telling them step by step what has happened. Otherwise my initial instinct is to dispute the original payment and only refund the “refund” when the dispute is settled in the OP’s favour. But I think getting Paypal involved, immediately, is the best bet.

You’re all being a bit harsh on this one, I think.

Selling something you don’t own is wrong, pure and simple. The way it was refunded is also very dodgy and leaves you open to being ripped off.

I’d treat it as a scam, and get paypal involved now.