dougal – that msc looks very skinny compared to some other carbon frames but has a lovely line/shape to it. how does it compare to other carbon frames …

njee20 – Member

19 and a bit pounds.

Really Andy? What have you changed since I weighed it at Sherwood last year, it's lost about 3lbs!

As someone else suggested I have indeed quoted without pedals, don't know why but lots of folks do. 20.6Lbs with, 0.1Lbs heavier than Dougal's, although I have just saved a bit on the hub, lighter freewheel.

aracer, probably wheels, 1200g pair. Rims hubs spokes nipples and skewers.

updated with new RockShox Sid Races forks and team issue bonty tyres
weight around 23Lbs (with updates). Hopeing to get it down to 20.5-21lbs with kcnc finishing kit and xtr chain and cassette

1200g pair. Rims hubs spokes nipples and skewers.

What the hell are those wheels then? They do look like those Alex rims, which aren't that light.

Saying that, there's a bloke on WW with some 980g clincher disc wheels, nuts.

Those MSCs look lovely, although longevity concerns me. We need someone heavier than Dougal testing them!

Richard, get a KMC X9SL chain, lighter than XTR. Better places to save money than an XTR cassette too IMO.

Et voila one Nicolai Helius CC. Not weighed it since this piccy, but it's now got XT shifters & mechs over SRAM X5/7, SLX brakes over Hayes Stroker Rydes, Dual Air Rev's instead of the coil u-turns shown here and a lighter seat post is on it's way – it was 27.5lbs inc pedals so maybe 26 considering the forks are nearly a pound lighter.

Wheels are Tune Prince/Princess (the Prince with new freewheel), Alex XCR-Pro Scandium rims, DT aerolite spokes (32 each), DT standard alu nipples, Tune AC16/17 skewers.
Rims are 30g (each) lighter than those DT carbon ones. Very difficult to get hold of, had to buy a replacement rear from a one-man-band in America. The one without the eyelets didn't last, so I've gone for one with, added 20g unfortunately, more than cancelled out the hub upgrade.

Still silly light, although I'm 9st12 so can get away with it. Also use DA 12-27 cassette, R1 floating rotors 160mm both ends with Tibolts torx-head rotor bolts, Racing Ralphs Evolution 2.1", Schwalbe SV14A tubes and (heavy) velox cloth rims strips.
Not a lot of rotating weight.

What's the guy with 980g set using? I'd be surprised if he's got disc hubs lighter than mine and can't think what rims they would be, even the Edge carbon tubulars would 'only' save 100g/pair over the Alex XCR-Pros. Is it quite heavily tuned rather than off the shelf bits? The MSC carbon set are 1140g, they look nice.

she now has a 2010 rp32 and Crankbrothers Candy 2ti. said to be 22lb with out peddels (250odd grams).

bloody lovely that is dougal.

MSC… Yes they look lovely and weigh less than bugger all. Since I saw Paul land a tiny jump at Plymouth and snap clean through both chainstays I'm less keen. Plus a lot of those hardtails have broken… Although a lot of frames do just snap these days – gone are the days of durability, well I think so anyway. It's a shame they don't seem to test stuff properly any more.

To finish first, first you have to finish. My new philosophy this year – no more stupid thin tyres.

GB

+1 nonk

steve_b77 YGM

How does it compare to other carbon frames?

All my previous bikes were alloy; an M5 followed by a few different Kona Scandium hardtails. The MSC was the first bike to convince me that carbon might be worth it, having seen Scotts snap left right and centre.

I'm definitely not the right person to be testing them as Nick says, but I wouldn't be riding one if I didn't think it was going to get me through a couple of hours of racing without breaking. If it did snap however, Steve @ MSC UK gives some fantastic support for the bikes, and stuff is pretty quick to come form Spain if he doesn't have what you need in stock.

On the riding front, it's pretty awesome. I give it no special treatment when it comes to picking lines etc, and apart from a few superficial boulder-scratches on the downtube, it's still crack free.

Gee pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to my racing approach; no silly stuff, no race-only or silly weight limits.

Andrew – 1140g, but carbon rims that are probably a pain to run tubeless? No thanks.

@santac – I know why it won't load the pic of your Pronghorn; because it's bloody hideous! 10/10 for weird looks 😉

njee20 – Member

Those MSCs look lovely, although longevity concerns me. We need someone heavier than Dougal testing them!

Dougal – Member

I'm definitely not the right person to be testing them as Nick says, but I wouldn't be riding one if I didn't think it was going to get me through a couple of hours of racing without breaking

i'm 15 stone and seriously considering taking up racing
🙄 😆

if you want a light weight nicolai, i think you'd need a Helius RC to start with. RC has loads of tweaky light weight weenie Ti hardware as standard.

theres a bloke on MTBR who's built an AC (140mm trail bike) upto 26lb, which considering its an all alloy/CNC 140mm frame with a DT shock and forks, it's on the light side.

Tune Prince/Princess

Beautiful, lovely choice! Have to have a nose at those!

The bloke on WW is called Ole, he's got Innolite 250g carbon rims, Extralite Ultradisc hubs with Pillar ti spokes, confirmed weight I'm afraid.

He's about 80kg or something too, so no featherweight!

I'd love to try the Innolite rims, just to see how tough they are! £450 each though! Still not bad compared to AX-Lightness or whatever.

If you went with the new Tune Dezibel hub, you could get well on for 900g. Scary.

"Do you really think I weighed mine with mud on?"
No not really, just attempting to thinking 'out loud' of anything that could contribute

"26.8lbs that my heckler weighs in at is pretty damn good considering – brakes, forks, wheels"
Is it though? Heckler frames aren't light? You could have something like an ibis Mojo with Lopes Link and it'd be lighter and be similar (eg same HA)?
Air/Coil U-turn Pikes are heavy. 2.2(ish)-2.4+kg. RS RVL Air U-turn (20mm) are 1750g. Magura Thor (20mm) are a touch less. I think manitou minutes (20mm axle also) are less again?
M4s? Could you not 'make do' with Marta SLs, perhaps with ventidiscs?
I can't remember but I thought XT wheels weren't super light?

Shimano wheels aren't super light, XT ones certainly aren't!

As someone else suggested I have indeed quoted without pedals, don't know why but lots of folks do. 20.6Lbs with, 0.1Lbs heavier than Dougal's, although I have just saved a bit on the hub, lighter freewheel.

aracer, probably wheels, 1200g pair. Rims hubs spokes nipples and skewers.
Well mostly pedals then – no idea what mine is without as I can't ride it that way so it's fairly irrelevant. IMHO you should also include the weight of the other essentials, shoes and helmet (Speccy Expert 750g the pair including cleats, Limar pro 104 200g 🙂 )

With those wheels (200g less than mine) 20.6 seems a realistic weight – don't think I'd have commented if you'd claimed that!

having seen Scotts snap left right and centre.

Which ones Dougal? Certainly hadn't heard of a particular problem.

Which ones Dougal? Certainly hadn't heard of a particular problem.

No particular problem or model, just lots of failures. Scale (especially the first two years), Genius and Spark rear-ends. Scott seem VERY generous about the warranty though, so they're obviously willing to stand-by their product, and considering the sheer number of these bikes they've sold, they probably have a fairly low incidence rate.

My Trance, with Maxle Reba, Roval Traversee wheels and some carbon bits.

It's just light rather than mega-light, and it's not a race bike – but I have been racing on it…

RIP

james – Member

"26.8lbs that my heckler weighs in at is pretty damn good considering – brakes, forks, wheels"
Is it though? Heckler frames aren't light? You could have something like an ibis Mojo with Lopes Link and it'd be lighter and be similar (eg same HA)?
Air/Coil U-turn Pikes are heavy. 2.2(ish)-2.4+kg. RS RVL Air U-turn (20mm) are 1750g. Magura Thor (20mm) are a touch less. I think manitou minutes (20mm axle also) are less again?
M4s? Could you not 'make do' with Marta SLs, perhaps with ventidiscs?
I can't remember but I thought XT wheels weren't super light?

Some good suggestions buddy – but as I said I am happy with the weight vs. capability of the bike for what I use it for….I still like the bigger stuff and can be seen taking this one down Les Gets/ Morzine without issue, i.e. brakes over heating or the bike being rattled apart – I suppose it is simply a question of whether the rider is happy with the weight of the bike, its capability and its intended use – which I am.

Some of the parts that you mentioned don't really give me that much gain when I take certain things into consideration, i.e. spring weights….if I run RS Rev's I only lose 18g (I'm a heavy old man!) and the weight with correct spring for me is 2095g for the Rev's and the pikes are 2113g.

With the wheels it is completely subjective, but I have to again go for something a bit more sturdy due to my weight and discipline (AM) – yeah I could save some weight here, but will they stand up to the hammering I put them through? (experience in the past says no – split rims & flat spots).

As for the brakes Marta SL's come in at about 330g with 183mm rotors & the tech M4's come in at 410g with floating rotors (I have matchmaker clamps too, thus cutting weight from shifter mounts) – so the saving is 80g, but how much do the shifter clamps weight? But I know which I would prefer in terms of both performance and replacement parts.

I totally agree with the IBIS Mojo and I did look at them….but unfortunately I am not a millionaire!! 😯 and the price is somewhat restrictive!! 🙁

so that's it then a whole week of waiting and only one sub28lb nicolai. thanks for your pics some lovely bikes here and lots of chat about the weight of various bits and pieces which is or isn't relevant dependant on your view of life.

m

26.5 lbs on a calibrated scale with pedals, XL, and nothing silly light. I'm 16 stone too…

not exactly XC but is used in XC races, some times the head is too slack to get round extremely tight turns!

so that's it then a whole week of waiting and only one sub28lb nicolai. thanks for your pics some lovely bikes here and lots of chat about the weight of various bits and pieces which is or isn't relevant dependant on your view of life.

Well you could always have tried starting a thread called "show me your lightweight nicolais" if you didn't want all the other inevitable stuff you get starting a thread with a title like that!

Glad I could be of assistance 😆

steve_b77 – Member

Glad I could be of assistance

have a look at the "help with german ebay thread"….

To be honest, I reckon we could get rid of about 90% of the submissions, but it depends what you call light!

I agree with njee20. There are a lot of mid to high 20's bikes on here,some of you people not understand the principle of weight weenie-ism 😀

mattp – Member
at the risk of getting banned from this forum – my wallet finger is getting twitchy and i'm looking for a new frame. the more "exotic" the better but I'm particularly interested to see any nicolai, santa cruz and yeti xc racers

There's been a few of them…

Nicolai Helius CC with mainly titanium bolts. But it would not suit a weight weenie as it has a Rohloff lol

That, and it has the world's most gopping mudguards…

That is a long stem.

Are those brake-bosses specifically to mount the mudguards?

Something going on with the brake hoses too.

Dougal, they must be…. the horror.

That's a folding helius too, the travel version. http://nicolai.net/products/e-frames/e-helius-cc-trv.html

So pretty custom, with a rolhoff, and v-mounts, yet why the massive stem? Built for someone else? but then why would they want the random features?

Why the mudguards? They look bloody daft – IMO of course 😉

Seriously if you want to keep clean surely summer road biking or maybe exercise biking in your living room maybe a better option.