Apologies if this has been done before (realise there is almost a thread a day on this)... but as it's something that would impact all of us in the UK, it seems strange to me that the referendum is only for those who live in Scotland. Was wondering why all of us in the Union don't get to vote on this? Don't think I've heard anyone argue for it in the media either.
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Scottish independence - why do only the Scots get to vote?
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Posted 4 months ago #
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Google "Self Determination"
Posted 4 months ago # -
think of it like a divorce. Should divorces only be granted if both people want to split up, or just one. I
Posted 4 months ago # -
Also, who's paying the c.£300m bill for this farce! If the Scotchish become independent, I vote we send them the bill.
Posted 4 months ago # -
what, you mean you want to vote on whether to chuck them out?
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'll say it again; we need a referendum on English independence.
Posted 4 months ago # -
But its not 'Scots' who will get the vote, but only people who are registered as living in Scotland.
Scot living in Scotland - Vote
Anyone else living in Scotland - Vote
Scot not living in Scotland - No VotePosted 4 months ago # -
Does seem strange especially when polls suggest that the Scots want to stay in the union and the English and Welsh are happy to see them out of the union...
Posted 4 months ago # -
Google "Self Determination"
You can google it all you like. It won't explain to you how you determine the concept of 'peoples' that is inherently tied up with the concept of self determination.
Posted 4 months ago # -
But its not 'Scots' who will get the vote, but only people who are registered as living in Scotland.
That seems fair enough to me. If I lived there and would be governed by any new Government then I would expect a vote. If I didn't then I wouldn't.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Are the Welsh happy to chuck Scotland out though? All the stuff i've seen only mentions the English, any ideas on how the Welsh view Scots Independence?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Talk all you want about spin being bad but they've done it again.
Watch the rabid right papers for the next government policy.
We had "public sector is overpaid and overpensioned" then the cuts.
We've had the "SCotland/West Lothian question is unfair" and now with CMD pushing the right buttons look where we are.
What next?
Posted 4 months ago # -
People on the news tonight complaining that they are true Scots, but because of living in England for work they don't have a vote....
Seems like a simple solution if you want a vote then
Posted 4 months ago # -
hopefully they will get independence then we might be spared the dirge of Rabbie Burns once and for all.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Oh i don't know, i like haggis and whisky - it's the abominable poetry that bothers me!
Posted 4 months ago # -
If someone comes to your house enters freely then asks to leave and you dont let them ...is that fair? No
Can you ask them to leave yes if you want to
etcif you want seperate vote on asking them to leave ask Dave...he seemed keen on european one so I think you might just get one
Posted 4 months ago # -
JY - Your analogy doesn't quite work though does it? The rest of the UK can't ask Scotland to leave it seems.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I get a vote
Posted 4 months ago # -
Who gets to vote really is at the heart of the issue, and its on several levels.
Firstly, its quite normal for ex-pats and people working overseas to have the right to vote even if they do not return home. In this instance its a bit of a toughy, as there is no record of who is and isn't Scottish, and thereby hangs the tale. The fact is Scottishness is now so intertwined with being British that it makes the whole concept of independence a complete farce, and thats why Salmond has to insist on the disenfranchisement of Scots everywhere, except where it suits him. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone in these isles without some claim somewhere to some bloody tartan or other, and that fact also applies to large swathes of the rest of the world.
Secondly, there are a whole raft of people who reside in Scotland who have no claim whatsoever to be Scottish. As I posted earlier Terry Butcher, ex England Football Captain to name but one. On what basis does he get a vote for the independence or otherwise of the place? If an Englishman living in Scotland can vote why can't a Scot living in England? That one sentence sums up the ridiculousness of the issue.
Thirdly, whether Salmond or TJ like it or not, the outcome of this vote will have a profound effect on the Union which we are all part of. I can see no reason whatsoever, why my opinion on that matter has less validity than that of someone living across some imaginery line that used to be a border and now in reality isn't.
The whole issue is a farce from start to finish and is clearly being manipulated by Salmond to suit his own ends, which is his right. However it is also mine to have a say in what happens in the democracy in which both he and I live until there is a democratic decision to change that status quo.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'll say it again; we need a referendum on English independence.
Why ? There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of the English voting for independence.
Maybe you just fancy an expensive and futile exercise for a laugh ?
Posted 4 months ago # -
the outcome of this vote will have a profound effect on the Union which we are all part of. I can see no reason whatsoever, why my opinion on that matter has less validity than that of someone living across some imaginery line that used to be a border and now in reality isn't.
This
The whole issue is a farce from start to finish and is clearly being manipulated by Salmond and Cameron to suit their own ends
FIFY
Posted 4 months ago # -
I would assume if you live in Scotland/are registered as living in Scotland you get a vote.(my neighbour works in middle East most of year but his home/family are here as such he should qualify to vote). If however you have 'jumped ship' and are based down south (set up family home) then you do not qualify.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Why ? There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of the English voting for independence.
Why not?
Maybe you just fancy an expensive and futile exercise for a laugh ?
Why not?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Berm Bandit - Member
And it's quite normal for them NOT to have a vote. This isn't a new situationFirstly, its quite normal for ex-pats and people working overseas to have the right to vote even if they do not return home.
there is no record of who is and isn't Scottish,
That's correct. it's easy to identify who was born in Scotland, less easy to work out who has "naturalised".Secondly, there are a whole raft of people who reside in Scotland who have no claim whatsoever to be Scottish.
We call them "residents". They normally get a vote on account of them living here. I believe this is common practice outside Scotland too?Thirdly, whether Salmond or TJ like it or not, the outcome of this vote will have a profound effect on the Union which we are all part of. I can see no reason whatsoever, why my opinion on that matter has less validity than that of someone living across some imaginery line that used to be a border and now in reality isn't.
It's still a border.Posted 4 months ago # -
Its depressing how quickly this subject ends up falling into a typical "us and them" argument. Alot of which relies on whipping up jingoistic and patriotic bullshit on both sides to created tension before the real pros and cons are really argued over.
Posted 4 months ago # -
TheBrick - Member
Do you think there might be a reason for that? Could you think of a way to change it?
Its depressing how quickly this subject ends up falling into a typical "us and them" argument. Alot of which relies on whipping up jingoistic and patriotic bullshit on both sides to created tension before the real pros and cons are really argued over.I can think of two...
(a) resort to the former nations.
(b) do away with the nations altogether.Posted 4 months ago # -
I could sell someone my vote? what am I bid?
Posted 4 months ago # -
i have two spare helmets
Posted 4 months ago # -
Berm Bandit - your post is barking up totally the wrong tree.
The people who will vote in the referendum are the people who are on the electoral roll for Scottish constituencies - simple as that. There is not, and never has been, and never will be, a "Scottishness" test.
Posted 4 months ago # -
coffee - check
Hob-nobs - check
Bet raised with Ladbrokes on how long it takes for the mudslinging to start and the thread closed - checkPosted 4 months ago # -
Anyone who has Scottish passport should be able to vote ...
Posted 4 months ago # -
There is not, and never has been, and never will be, a "Scottishness".
..... and that is precisely what I said, and also why the whole issue is a farce. Its a relevant as banging on about the independence for Avalon.
They normally get a vote on account of them living here
Well actually you only get a vote if you qualify to have one, not merely by dint of living there. Again that's the point isn't it there isn't any qualifying criteria, other than simple residence which reinforces the point about the independent nation of Scotland i.e. its an irrelevant issue from history.Posted 4 months ago # -
Do you think there might be a reason for that? Could you think of a way to change it?
I can think of two...(a) resort to the former nations.
(b) do away with the nations altogether.Neither would work because of human nature imo. Its impossible as human we are depressingly predisposed to it, if its not the next door country its the next door town. We can however recognise when we are using these tribal arguments and refrain from them.
In this particular case I don't have a strong view as I'm not up in the issues so say I'm pro Scottish independence or not. It just annoying to wade though the tribalism that crops up particularly strongly on this issue, being as it is a long running historical divide.
Posted 4 months ago # -
muddydwarf - JY - Your analogy doesn't quite work though does it? The rest of the UK can't ask Scotland to leave it seems.
You probably can, if you can get a parliamentary majority in favour of it. That might be a bit tricky given that the official policy of at least 95% of the MPs is "pro-union".
Posted 4 months ago # -
For anyone moaning about why the English/Welsh residents do not get a vote let me ask you this. If the UK wanted to leave the EU would you expect the French/Germans etc to have a vote?
Posted 4 months ago #
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